Bartonella, Constipation, Gut Inflammation

New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> ]

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 2041
   Posted 1/20/2018 2:53 PM (GMT -6)   
Bartonella, Constipation, Gut Inflammation

Does anyone have any experience or knowledge indicating that there is or may be a connection between these?

goshawk
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 2302
   Posted 1/20/2018 4:08 PM (GMT -6)   

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33963
   Posted 1/20/2018 9:07 PM (GMT -6)   
WBF - Dr. Rawls says Bart can affect our colon


"Chronic bartonella infection can be associated with abdominal pain, loose stools or constipation, and general intestinal function, but this may or may not be specifically caused by bartonella."

I don't get the "but his may or may not be specifically caused by baronella" part of his sentence.


/rawlsmd.com/health-articles/understanding-bartonella

Here's an older thread on it:

/www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3347077

And this person blames bartonella affecting the CNS (vagus nerve)

constipation, irritated bowels, slow digestion
abdominal bloating
abdominal cramps
nausea

/coilingforlyme.com/2013/05/12/bartonella-flares-and-herxes/

Hope this helps.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Rikky1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2925
   Posted 1/20/2018 9:19 PM (GMT -6)   
interesting girlie. around august about 6 months into my babesia focused treatment and about 3 months when i had my liver/spleen checked for babesia infection and they weren't swollen anymore (yippee) i started getting pockets of pain in my abdomen. some told me it was gas but i don't believe that.

for the past month or two my stomach just hasn't been right. it sometimes feels partly bloated other times like a bowling ball is in there. my wife says she knows my body and it looks distended.

i always figured it was the abx but maybe its the bartonella coming out now that i've beaten the babesia down?

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33963
   Posted 1/20/2018 9:27 PM (GMT -6)   
Rikky1 said...
interesting girlie. around august about 6 months into my babesia focused treatment and about 3 months when i had my liver/spleen checked for babesia infection and they weren't swollen anymore (yippee) i started getting pockets of pain in my abdomen. some told me it was gas but i don't believe that.

for the past month or two my stomach just hasn't been right. it sometimes feels partly bloated other times like a bowling ball is in there. my wife says she knows my body and it looks distended.

i always figured it was the abx but maybe its the bartonella coming out now that i've beaten the babesia down?


could be Rikky.

You know - i've had a few days here and there with some burning type pain in my tummy....maybe it's bart with me, too.
Mine started near the end of my Babesia treatment...(Mepron)...interesting.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 2041
   Posted 1/20/2018 11:29 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie,

Thanks for those links. Bartonella makes sense. I'm sure I was infected at birth or early childhood. I've had bart streaks, foot pain, and bone pain since early childhood. I've also had lifelong constipation. It didn't concern me until my mid 30's. Somewhere along there I started having unexplained belching that seemed to have nothing to do with food. Then I started having redness, tightness, and burning in my face that I posted about today. A couple of years later, the whole gamut of chronic Lyme symptoms started suddenly.

I've been focusing my treatment on bartonella, with other herbs added for Lyme and babesia. I've been in a flare/herx for weeks now with return of foot pain and joint and muscle stiffness. Also my bart streaks on my abdomen are flared, and I've had a return of skin symptoms I haven't had in a long time - little tiny bumps all over my abdomen and lower back, little red dots, splotchy patches of pink skin.

In the link to Dr Rawls', he mentioned lots of tooth involvement. I've had all manner of strange tooth and mouth pain, sensitivity, and numbness off and on for months now. Maybe that's from bart, too.

Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 1/21/2018 3:21 PM (GMT -6)   
Some of the things we know about Bartonella (and Lyme, actually) - we know it hits the nervous system, which of course, includes the vagus nerve - the longest nerve in the body, as it runs from the brain, through the throat and down into the intestines. If it's affected by these infections, then it has the potential to cause all sorts of issues, from the brain on down to the intestines.
/img.medscapestatic.com/pi/meds/ckb/81/11481tn.jpg



As I healed from Lyme, things got easier with my digestion, then I healed from Bart, and things improved significantly. Once I was reinfected though, it all came back. I guess it missed me????
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New set of infections 8/2014 - still treating.
Come visit me: dogwoodtraditionals.freeforums.net/

greatguy
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 104
   Posted 1/21/2018 5:10 PM (GMT -6)   
WalkingbyFaith said...
Girlie,

Thanks for those links. Bartonella makes sense. I'm sure I was infected at birth or early childhood. I've had bart streaks, foot pain, and bone pain since early childhood. I've also had lifelong constipation. It didn't concern me until my mid 30's. Somewhere along there I started having unexplained belching that seemed to have nothing to do with food. Then I started having redness, tightness, and burning in my face that I posted about today. A couple of years later, the whole gamut of chronic Lyme symptoms started suddenly.

I've been focusing my treatment on bartonella, with other herbs added for Lyme and babesia. I've been in a flare/herx for weeks now with return of foot pain and joint and muscle stiffness. Also my bart streaks on my abdomen are flared, and I've had a return of skin symptoms I haven't had in a long time - little tiny bumps all over my abdomen and lower back, little red dots, splotchy patches of pink skin.

In the link to Dr Rawls', he mentioned lots of tooth involvement. I've had all manner of strange tooth and mouth pain, sensitivity, and numbness off and on for months now. Maybe that's from bart, too.


Very sad that you had it since childhood, but i must admit, i had it since childhood too. Not specifically lyme or bart, but one of these for sure, as i still wasn't tested for co-infections.

magoo2
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 1305
   Posted 1/21/2018 5:16 PM (GMT -6)   
In the link to Dr Rawls', he mentioned lots of tooth involvement. I've had all manner of strange tooth and mouth pain, sensitivity, and numbness off and on for months now. Maybe that's from bart, too

Chicken or egg? A festering infection can wear down the immune system and open the door to lyme.

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 2041
   Posted 1/21/2018 6:06 PM (GMT -6)   
magoo2 said...
In the link to Dr Rawls', he mentioned lots of tooth involvement. I've had all manner of strange tooth and mouth pain, sensitivity, and numbness off and on for months now. Maybe that's from bart, too

Chicken or egg? A festering infection can wear down the immune system and open the door to lyme.


magoo,

I know what you're telling me. You think I may have dental infection that could have opened the door to Lyme. I see how that could be possible. However, if I was born with these infections like I suspect (with good reasons), then I had bartonella before I had teeth. tongue tongue

Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 1/21/2018 6:09 PM (GMT -6)   
The fact remains that while tooth infections can be a part of this for some, it's not for most. Only take what you need from this (and other) sites.

While I have no teeth left, these infections never started out in my mouth, but they did destroy the enamel of my teeth which allowed them to crack, split, and decay - no matter how good of care I took of them.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New set of infections 8/2014 - still treating.
Come visit me: dogwoodtraditionals.freeforums.net/

magoo2
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 1305
   Posted 1/21/2018 6:24 PM (GMT -6)   
Traveler-facts? interesting opinion.

Many LLMDs start in jaw. I don't think you should minimize this. I have met several lymies who treated dental and got better shortly after and went back to work.

Treating for years and not checking things like dental-parasite and heavy metals is just silly. There are easy test for all three of these issues. All three can wear down your immune system and open the door to various bugs. Fixing all three can be the cure.

I think these docs just approach lyme differently that you think of. They ask why did you get lyme? remember many people are exposed to lyme and never get it. Many more get cured with one round of doxy. So many docs ask what wore our systems down. Other docs just want to attack the lyme with one thing or another. My humble opinion is do both-strengthen your body by fixing whatever you can-and kill the bacteria. FYI-simple test for dental and parasites going years without checking is silly

Post Edited (magoo2) : 1/21/2018 4:52:20 PM (GMT-7)


Notime4lyme
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 386
   Posted 1/21/2018 6:35 PM (GMT -6)   
I've had all kinds of strange probably bartonella- related symptoms since I was a kid. Constipation, unexplained burping, stomachaches, along with shin and foot pain, anxiety, and trouble swallowing.

It wasn't until a few years ago that I got a bartonella rash and really bad bloating. After I took azithromycin for a month or so the bloating went away. None of my other symptoms went away though.

Rikky1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2925
   Posted 1/21/2018 7:07 PM (GMT -6)   
magoo2 i'm sorry to say but you sound like a hammer and when you're a hammer everything looks like a nail ;o) dentals may be an issue but i'm sorry it just doesn't seem to be for most. you do know a lot about it though!

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33963
   Posted 1/21/2018 7:45 PM (GMT -6)   
While some LLMD's may see dental as the most important 'piece' I wouldn't say it's most, or maybe even many?
Many LLMD's start with the jaw? Really? That's not been my experience.
magoo - I'm not sure where you're getting this information from - is it LLMD's in Europe, perhaps?


I think it's reasonable to say they may look into that if the patient isn't progressing after a length of time on treatment, but I personally don't know one person who's LLMD started with dental - i.e. removing root canals, all amalgams...etc.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

magoo2
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 1305
   Posted 1/21/2018 8:37 PM (GMT -6)   
Walkingbyfaith= you were born with lyme? Ive not heard this-how do you know?

Girlie-Yes Rau from Switzerland is one who starts in jaw-actually jaw and gut. Dr Yu also checks out the jaw for everyone, this guy Rawls must, Klinghardt does, Minkoff does, Hasna center checks out jaw. That's off the top of my head. I just know how powerful dental can be and how many people miss it. I also know how easy it is to test. So it easy to test and can be the most powerful medicine. I have seen several people sick for years regain their health in a month after fixing dental-vertigo-lyme-stroke and IBS.

I will try to not bring it up as much. I do think we need to focus on what weakens us and opens the door to infections.

Post Edited (magoo2) : 1/21/2018 7:27:50 PM (GMT-7)


Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33963
   Posted 1/21/2018 9:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Traveler said...
Some of the things we know about Bartonella (and Lyme, actually) - we know it hits the nervous system, which of course, includes the vagus nerve - the longest nerve in the body, as it runs from the brain, through the throat and down into the intestines. If it's affected by these infections, then it has the potential to cause all sorts of issues, from the brain on down to the intestines.
/img.medscapestatic.com/pi/meds/ckb/81/11481tn.jpg



As I healed from Lyme, things got easier with my digestion, then I healed from Bart, and things improved significantly. Once I was reinfected though, it all came back. I guess it missed me????


Yes, Traveler! The vagus nerve (a cranial nerve) I think it what's been responsible for some of the throat issues I have/had.
It's not necessarily an issue with our throats...but the nerves.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

MagnoliaCee
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2017
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 1/22/2018 1:31 AM (GMT -6)   
I started having problems once I was infected and all my tests were positive for Lyme, Bartonella, Babesia, Mycoplasma, parasites; roundworms, giardia and a tapeworm.
I am a very clean person, always eat organic, healthy foods and health conscious, but I ended up with all those things.
First I had to get rid of the parasites which were disgusting. Then candida and then I started on my protocol. I did the Cowden and antibiotics. I have never felt good, so I am restarting anew.
Anyway, long story short my digestive system has been a mess ever since. I have to take bowel detox herbs, triphala, aloe, prebiotics, digestive enzymes, fiber and lots of water and green tea. I take cascara sagrada too. That is the only way I am regular. I also take enteric peppermint to help with gas. I was told it was a symptom of Babesia.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33963
   Posted 1/22/2018 2:02 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi MagnoliaCee - Welcome to our community.

Sorry to hear you've got those issues. Do you currently have a LLMD...or are you going to treat herbally going forward?

There's a lot of knowledge and experience here...so feel free to ask any questions you have.

We do suggest that our new members read through the thread: "New to Lyme?...Start Here!"
It's packed full of useful information.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 2041
   Posted 1/22/2018 9:39 AM (GMT -6)   
Traveler said...
The fact remains that while tooth infections can be a part of this for some, it's not for most. Only take what you need from this (and other) sites.

While I have no teeth left, these infections never started out in my mouth, but they did destroy the enamel of my teeth which allowed them to crack, split, and decay - no matter how good of care I took of them.


Trav,
Very interesting, though I'm very sorry you have no teeth left. I have had my teeth cleaned and regular dental checkups every 6 months since I was big enough to sit in a dentist chair. (My dad had good insurance.) I regularly brushed my teeth and took care of them. I never ate much candy as a child, as I didn't like typical candy, though I did eat chocolate. I never had any problems with my baby teeth, but when my adult teeth came in, they were somewhat yellowed in color. (My old dentist used to ask me if I was Scandinavian and said Scandinavians tend to have yellow teeth.) My upper and lower front teeth had ridges across the edges. My four upper front teeth had pits, just like my mother's. My mother said a dentist told her that it was caused from having measles as a child. I did not have measles but did have chickenpox. I don't remember my dentist ever saying why I had pits. The teeth just next to the upper front ones were not pitted but do have discoloration and a rough surface. None of my other teeth are like that.

I started getting cavities after my adult teeth started coming in. I think I was 10 when I got the first one. I got braces when I was 12. After I got the braces off two years later, I had FIVE cavities. I was so upset. I had braces with bands that went all the way around on ALL of my teeth, so it was very difficult to properly clean them. I had some cavities in my upper front teeth, too - the ones with pits. The dentist filled the cavities and put bonding on my four upper front teeth, which greatly improved their appearance. My mother got her upper front teeth bonded at the same time.

I continued to get cavities in my teens, but they became fewer and farther between once I got into adulthood. Both my mother and I have a mouth full of amalgam fillings. My mother is 80 now and she has lost some teeth and has some broken teeth still. (HORMONES: I have wondered if hormone (estrogen) imbalance could have anything to do with the tooth decay, since it was most prominent in puberty through teen years. My mother and her mother both had breast cancer and problematic menstrual periods. My mother felt terrible while taking birth control and stopped after a year. I've never taken hormones myself, but I had/have difficult PMS symptoms and my hormones tend to have a strong effect on a lot of my symptoms, most of which seem to be bartonella-related.)

Every dental hygienist I've ever had has commented on how well I take care of my teeth and how little they have to scrape. However, no dentist, including the new one I saw two weeks ago, ever told me I had cracks in my teeth. I just saw a biological dentist for the first time last week. The dental assistant showed me all the pictures she took of my teeth and showed me what she said were hairline cracks on my molars and showed me where the old amalgams were starting to pull away and decay is there and how my teeth could start breaking away. She also showed me dark lines that she thought were cracks (or maybe they're just stains??) in my molars that had no fillings. The dentist didn't talk about that, and I forgot to ask him about the cracks.
--------------------------------------------------------
Post edited. While searching for articles on transplacental transmission for magoo, I came across this article. This demonstrates female hormone interplay with bartonella.
Bartonella bacteremia higher in pregnant cows than non-pregnant cows and bacterial levels rose during last 2/3 of pregnancy:
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16390945

Post Edited (WalkingbyFaith) : 1/22/2018 8:11:52 AM (GMT-7)


WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 2041
   Posted 1/22/2018 9:49 AM (GMT -6)   
MagnoliaCee said...
I started having problems once I was infected and all my tests were positive for Lyme, Bartonella, Babesia, Mycoplasma, parasites; roundworms, giardia and a tapeworm.
I am a very clean person, always eat organic, healthy foods and health conscious, but I ended up with all those things.
First I had to get rid of the parasites which were disgusting. Then candida and then I started on my protocol. I did the Cowden and antibiotics. I have never felt good, so I am restarting anew.
Anyway, long story short my digestive system has been a mess ever since. I have to take bowel detox herbs, triphala, aloe, prebiotics, digestive enzymes, fiber and lots of water and green tea. I take cascara sagrada too. That is the only way I am regular. I also take enteric peppermint to help with gas. I was told it was a symptom of Babesia.


MagnoliaCee,

Hi! Thanks for responding with your experience. If I understand correctly, you started having constipation and gut problems AFTER becoming infected with Lyme/co. You treated parasites and candida first. Then you started treating the Lyme/co with Cowden and antibiotics but did not have success with the Lyme treatment, and you still have the constipation and gut issues and were told that Babesia caused the constipation and gut problems. Is that correct?

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 2041
   Posted 1/22/2018 10:24 AM (GMT -6)   
magoo2 said...
Walkingbyfaith= you were born with lyme? Ive not heard this-how do you know?


magoo,

I don't know. I suspect. I found a couple of articles online. Hope this helps.

/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11500400
/www.lymedisease.org/423/

BTW, I'm glad you talk about dental and parasites a lot. It's something I'm looking into now. I'll be posting soon with my dental questions.
smile
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
Forum Information
Currently it is Tuesday, August 21, 2018 12:24 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 2,995,126 posts in 328,198 threads.
View Active Threads


Who's Online
This forum has 161318 registered members. Please welcome our newest member, Nannieof3.
273 Guest(s), 8 Registered Member(s) are currently online.  Details
notsosicklygirl, Enebm, mattamx, Sr Sailor, auzzie, Girlie, BillyBob@388, InTheShop