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Mergirl
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Date Joined Oct 2017
Total Posts : 205
   Posted 1/22/2018 8:19 AM (GMT -6)   
So, I have my latest thyroid test results. Last time, intergrative doc suspected I may have Hashimoto's based on my lower end T3 & T4 and also due to the fact he knows this is pretty common to have with Lyme. So he sent me for more testing and now I need help with the results.

I still have another week until I see him and wondering what he should gather from this test. Just curious to see what others with Thyroid disorders think. Thanks in advance.



TSH - 0.99 UIu/ml RR:0.40-4.50

TGAB - <10 IU/ml RR:0-115

TPOAB - 9 IU/ml RR: 0-34

Free T4 - 1.31 ng/dl RR: 0.93 - 1.70

Free T3 - 2.55 pg/ml RR: 2.00 - 4.90

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
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   Posted 1/22/2018 11:09 AM (GMT -6)   
TSH - 0.99 UIu/ml RR:0.40-4.50

Free T4 - 1.31 ng/dl RR: 0.93 - 1.70

Free T3 - 2.55 pg/ml RR: 2.00 - 4.90

Looks like you just dont convert well from T4 to T3. I often wonder if beating up out livers has a connection to people not converting well on the forum.

------------------------------------------
TGAB - <10 IU/ml RR:0-115

TPOAB - 9 IU/ml RR: 0-34

These ranges are a little unusual compared to what I'm used to. Its weird how some antibody tests have only limits and some have actual ranges. Since your close, if it were me, Id do these antibody tests over a little later with a different lab.

Kat1000
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Date Joined Feb 2017
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   Posted 1/22/2018 11:14 AM (GMT -6)   
.99 would be a low TSH for me (I'm hypothyroid). I feel best when it's 1.5 - 1.7. One time I was down to .65 and my heart was racing. For most people, a score between 1 and 2 is usually optimal.

I don't remember my T3 and T4 numbers but know they were in range.
pos for MTHTR single mutation; Positive Igenix IgG Jan 2017
March/Apr '17: doxy, Tinizadole. 5/1 samento and swap mino for doxy. 5/28- switch mino back to doxy, added activated charcoal. 6/9 - stopped antibiox; staying with samento, red root and houttiya and supps. tried LDN; 8/24 rifampin, samento, red root and supps 1/1 30 days rifampin and burner's protocol to beat bart; borreala gone?

astroman
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   Posted 1/22/2018 2:41 PM (GMT -6)   
Side Note: The longer one is on thyroid med, the less important TSH becomes. Years of thyroid med will artificialy supress TSH when compared to identical ft3/ft4 levels.

This is why its more important for people on long term thyroid med to know where you feel best in the ft3 and ft4 ranges when tested at the same time of day.
Had initial lyme symptoms late 80's, then again but also with bullseye early 90's. Ended ABX for Lyme in 2015. Rebuilding / repairing / fine tuning since then; member "10 Percenters Lyme Club". What an adventure this has been. Hashimotos adds to the enjoyment.

Mergirl
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Date Joined Oct 2017
Total Posts : 205
   Posted 1/22/2018 4:34 PM (GMT -6)   
astroman said...
TSH - 0.99 UIu/ml RR:0.40-4.50

Free T4 - 1.31 ng/dl RR: 0.93 - 1.70

Free T3 - 2.55 pg/ml RR: 2.00 - 4.90

Looks like you just dont convert well from T4 to T3. I often wonder if beating up out livers has a connection to people not converting well on the forum.

------------------------------------------
TGAB - <10 IU/ml RR:0-115

TPOAB - 9 IU/ml RR: 0-34

These ranges are a little unusual compared to what I'm used to. Its weird how some antibody tests have only limits and some have actual ranges. Since your close, if it were me, Id do these antibody tests over a little later with a different lab.



Thanks astroman.

I've haven't taken anything for thyroid yet. Would these tests indicate that something may help some of my symptoms? I kind of want to understand this a little better before I see the doc next week. I can't think really well right now so this is an issue.

My T3 has been consistently in the lower end of the range for months now. T4 was lower last month, now back up a little. So confusing.

Mergirl
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2017
Total Posts : 205
   Posted 1/22/2018 4:41 PM (GMT -6)   
Kat1000 said...
.99 would be a low TSH for me (I'm hypothyroid). I feel best when it's 1.5 - 1.7. One time I was down to .65 and my heart was racing. For most people, a score between 1 and 2 is usually optimal.

I don't remember my T3 and T4 numbers but know they were in range.



Thanks, Kat. Was heart racing your only indication of hypothyroid or were there other symptoms you could distinguish from lyme as well?

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5095
   Posted 1/22/2018 7:30 PM (GMT -6)   
Mergirl said...
astroman said...
TSH - 0.99 UIu/ml RR:0.40-4.50

Free T4 - 1.31 ng/dl RR: 0.93 - 1.70

Free T3 - 2.55 pg/ml RR: 2.00 - 4.90

Looks like you just dont convert well from T4 to T3. I often wonder if beating up out livers has a connection to people not converting well on the forum.

------------------------------------------
TGAB - <10 IU/ml RR:0-115

TPOAB - 9 IU/ml RR: 0-34

These ranges are a little unusual compared to what I'm used to. Its weird how some antibody tests have only limits and some have actual ranges. Since your close, if it were me, Id do these antibody tests over a little later with a different lab.



Thanks astroman.

I've haven't taken anything for thyroid yet. Would these tests indicate that something may help some of my symptoms? I kind of want to understand this a little better before I see the doc next week. I can't think really well right now so this is an issue.

My T3 has been consistently in the lower end of the range for months now. T4 was lower last month, now back up a little. So confusing.


Now I remember, you posted a similar lab a couple months ago. I think you naturally have a lower TSH than most people- as it almost looks hypER, ..BUT in truth your actual cell consumable hormone T3 is a little low (Hypo). If your TSH looked higher (more hypo), supplemental Rx T3 would definitely help. You can goggle thyroid conversion supplements. Selenium is the main one (its in Brazil nuts).

You could try the lowest dose of cytomel T3 for two weeks. You need to start real slow and ramp it up after few days. Unfortunantly its normal to feel a little hyper as the body gets used to T3. If you cant handle it- well, T3 only stays in you less than a day! T4, which you dont need stays in you a long six weeks.

The most common symptoms of low T3 are muscle pain/soreness and digestion issues - also known lyme symptoms.

[Kat was mentioning hypER symptoms with a TSH lower than where you are. Thast why TSH is not a good comparison as different peoples bodies can have a TSH preference all over in the range. Remember the hypo/hyper direction of TSH and the Free's are opposite.]

I can get heart racing from both hypo (underdose)and hyper (overdose).

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33927
   Posted 1/22/2018 7:38 PM (GMT -6)   
My TSH is even lower than that.. I think between .4 and .5 for three tests.

Then I had one that was .8.


I was worried about hyperthyroid...but my FT3 isn't above range...it's close to top of range though.

As long as it's not lower than the range for hyper (TSH) - we're good, right?

(Lordy - don't get me going down that road again)
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

k07
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2015
Total Posts : 2550
   Posted 1/22/2018 8:16 PM (GMT -6)   
Tell me about it Girlie, my doc wants me to try t3 (cytomel) now. Ugh - dragging my feet bc i went hyper with chest pain on naturethroid. Plus i thought i crossed thyroid OFF the list.

Mergirl - my ft3 is 3.0, ft4 1.06, tpo 11, and tsh 2.06. I’ve always heard a tsh of 1 is good??

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5095
   Posted 1/22/2018 11:00 PM (GMT -6)   
Anyone having interest reading this, TSH is not the most important thyroid test. It's a close third to T4 and T3.

Unknowing Drs some times do this alone because they simply do not understand thyroid and/or they are trying to save money. The Free T3 and Free T4 have always been most important as these are the fuel your cells use.

TSH is only a signal, not "fuel", which unfortunately does not always correlate the way it should with T3 and T4 levels.

TSH has a standard range. Free T3 and Free T4 ranges will differ according to the test machine/brand used for testing- so you always need to include ranges when questioning these two.

Thyroid antibodies also have different ranges and/or limits according to test procedure/lab/machine used.

Sometimes when TSH and Frees contradict each other, treatment by trial and error are the only way to find out what's right for you.

If Ft3 and or FT4 are not over their ranges, and TSH is not super low, one is not hyper, but might be close. Its not an on/off light switch, its more like an adjustable dimmer.

Any T3 supplementation takes more than a week , but less than a month to get used to. Its an uncomfortable process.

Post Edited (astroman) : 1/22/2018 9:08:52 PM (GMT-7)


Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33927
   Posted 1/23/2018 12:29 AM (GMT -6)   
astroman said...




If Ft3 and or FT4 are not over their ranges, and TSH is not super low, one is not hyper, but might be close. Its not an on/off light switch, its more like an adjustable dimmer.


My FT3 and FT4 are upper 3/4 of ranges. TSH is low, but its still in range (barely)

My Dr. won't do the antibodies tests because my numbers are all in range.


k07 - I DID cross thyroid off my list...but of course...it's in the back of my mind still. rolleyes
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

astroman
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5095
   Posted 1/23/2018 1:31 AM (GMT -6)   
Girlie- dont sweat it. If you've been that way for a while and it doesn't change, your fine. You could always pay for a hyper Graves TSI antibody test if you just "have to" know.
Had initial lyme symptoms late 80's, then again but also with bullseye early 90's. Ended ABX for Lyme in 2015. Rebuilding / repairing / fine tuning since then; member "10 Percenters Lyme Club". What an adventure this has been. Hashimotos adds to the enjoyment.

Kat1000
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Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 670
   Posted 1/23/2018 10:05 AM (GMT -6)   
Mergirl - for me the racing heart was a sign I had flipped to hyperthyroid. I was never diagnosed with Hashimotos, "only" hypothyroid, which both my mother and sister have.

My sister in law lost a bunch of weight and was having palpitations. She had Graves and ended up having her thyroid zapped, and has to take a thyroid supplement also.
MTHTR single mutation; Positive Igenix IgG Jan 2017; March/Apr '17: doxy, Tinizadole. 5/1 samento and mino/tini. 5/28- back to doxy, added activated charcoal. 6/9 - stopped antibiox; staying with samento, red root and houttiya and supps. tried LDN; 8/24 rifampin, samento, red root and supps. On and off rifampin. 1/1/18 - 1/20 rifampin. Herbs and vitamins only now.

Kat1000
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Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 670
   Posted 1/23/2018 10:11 AM (GMT -6)   
My doctor checks TSH, T3 and T4, but I can usually tell where I'm at based on the condition of my nails, skin and hair. My weight also can be affected.

Racing heart, weight loss and palpitations usually point towards venturing into hyperthyroid zone. Sluggish, dry skin, brittle nails point towards hypo.

I mainly look at TSH because I understand it better. And for 14 years now, I feel best when it's between 1 and 2 and that hasn't changed. The range is different for different people. I've also gone from synthroid, to armour thyroid to naturethroid. Now when I feel like my numbers are going up, my doctor has me take a half dose in the afternoon. I'm on a pretty low dose. 1- 1/2 g a day.

The key thing I know is that many doctors will not treat hypo unless TSH is over 5 (old school). Newer school is if TSH is over 3. Mine was 2.9 when treatment started.
MTHTR single mutation; Positive Igenix IgG Jan 2017; March/Apr '17: doxy, Tinizadole. 5/1 samento and mino/tini. 5/28- back to doxy, added activated charcoal. 6/9 - stopped antibiox; staying with samento, red root and houttiya and supps. tried LDN; 8/24 rifampin, samento, red root and supps. On and off rifampin. 1/1/18 - 1/20 rifampin. Herbs and vitamins only now.

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5095
   Posted 1/23/2018 11:12 AM (GMT -6)   
Here is a weird but perfect example of why sick people with thyroid issues should ask for full thyroid panel testing - at least those without past test results to see a pattern.

In the past I've had super "hypo looking " TSH of 20, while FT3 was 10-20% over the FT3 range. This should not happen.

A regular Dr only testing TSH (and skipping a T3 test) would have said I was hypo and upped my med, possibly giving me a heart attack. This was during a weird lyme flair of some type.

I thought I was blood pooling the high T3 level and asked for Reverse T3 test, which was fine. Without reverse T3 my cells were actually using hormone and hyper, but TSH said hypO. Wierd things happen. Ive seen the opposite happen with others. Now my Dr knows to test the whole deal.

Medical School needs more time spent on thyroid treatment.

Because of 20 years of supressed TSH from thyroid med, I am hypo at anything more than 1.5 TSH.

Thats my "pattern" and where my TSH is when my free T3/4 levels are making me feel good. So I cant go to a "TSH only" Dr for thyroid issues. This is common when on thyroid med for years, yet average Drs do not know this.
Had initial lyme symptoms late 80's, then again but also with bullseye early 90's. Ended ABX for Lyme in 2015. Rebuilding / repairing / fine tuning since then; member "10 Percenters Lyme Club". What an adventure this has been. Hashimotos adds to the enjoyment.

Mergirl
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2017
Total Posts : 205
   Posted 1/24/2018 9:52 PM (GMT -6)   
I have a lot to learn about this I guess. Still so confused.

So what should I expect the doc to tell me based on these tests? Sorry, if I'm essentially asking the same questions. Hard for me to understand right now.

astroman
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5095
   Posted 1/24/2018 11:07 PM (GMT -6)   
Any Dr who thoroughly understands thyroid will tell you based on these test results that:

-you currently dont have enough antibodies to have Hashimoto (yahoo!)

-you currently dont require T4 thyroid med, but might need T3 thyroid med in the future. A more "holistic" type Dr might say to try some T3 support / conversion supplements.

-and maybe to test Ft4 , FT3 and TSH again in a few months just to confirm this possible slight conversion issue. Not converting well is not that big of a deal, and not uncommon. Your kind of in that "wait and see zone".

k07
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Date Joined Sep 2015
Total Posts : 2550
   Posted 1/25/2018 7:57 AM (GMT -6)   
If I were you mergirl I would look to use natural things to boost thyroid right now and monitor levels.

Mergirl
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2017
Total Posts : 205
   Posted 1/25/2018 9:35 AM (GMT -6)   
Thank you guys.

I guess that's good news that I can at least rule out hashimotos and hypothyroid!

K07, can you suggest anything natural to boost thyroid?

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5095
   Posted 1/25/2018 10:09 AM (GMT -6)   
You need something to help convert T4 to T3. This process is done in certain organs - the liver is one. You can take all the T4 support in the world, and not make enough T3 in your case.

You need to specifically support your body to make more T3, not just "any" thyroid support:

Support your liver- take liver detox suppliments daily.

The mineral Selenium helps the conversion too. You can buy that. Google natural suppliments to convert T4 to T3. Brazil nuts help convert to- they have selenium in them.

k07
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Date Joined Sep 2015
Total Posts : 2550
   Posted 1/25/2018 10:34 AM (GMT -6)   
I was going to say selenium. Astroman’s suggestion of brazil nuts is a great thing to try!

Are you doing any liver support already?

Kat1000
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Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 670
   Posted 1/25/2018 11:29 AM (GMT -6)   
Just for comparison, here are my labs from 3 months ago:

tsh 1.57 (.45-4.5)
T4 .98 (.82-1.77)
T3 3.7 (2 - 4.4)
TPO 8 (0-34)
Thyroglobulin Antibody less than 1 (0.0- .9)

So I continued on naturethroid, and if my weight fluctuates about 10 lbs either way (which does seem to happen since I've gotten lyme) then I need to adjust my meds.

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5095
   Posted 1/25/2018 12:45 PM (GMT -6)   
Kat1000 said...
Just for comparison, here are my labs from 3 months ago:

tsh 1.57 (.45-4.5)
T4 .98 (.82-1.77)
T3 3.7 (2 - 4.4)
TPO 8 (0-34)
Thyroglobulin Antibody less than 1 (0.0- .9)

So I continued on naturethroid, and if my weight fluctuates about 10 lbs either way (which does seem to happen since I've gotten lyme) then I need to adjust my meds.


Part of the reason you feel good at this level is not TSH, but your healthy level of T3 "cell fuel". Your pituitary TSH signal is correctly corealated with your healthy T3 level; not everyones body works that way, but it should. Because of this you are lucky enough to go by TSH. Conventional medicine assumes we are all this way. We know what assuming does LOL.

For comparison, my "thyroid is healthy" labs are similar to yours in the Free levels, but my TSH will be lower from 20 years of higher dose thyroid med forcing TSH supression. Some people on high doses for 30+ years will have TSH of zero, but with healthy mid range free T3/T4.

Post Edited (astroman) : 1/25/2018 10:49:08 AM (GMT-7)


Kat1000
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Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 670
   Posted 1/25/2018 1:04 PM (GMT -6)   
astroman - I'm glad something about me is healthy! lol
MTHTR single mutation; Positive Igenix IgG Jan 2017; March/Apr '17: doxy, Tinizadole. 5/1 samento and mino/tini. 5/28- back to doxy, added activated charcoal. 6/9 - stopped antibiox; staying with samento, red root and houttiya and supps. tried LDN; 8/24 rifampin, samento, red root and supps. On and off rifampin. 1/1/18 - 1/20 rifampin. Herbs and vitamins only now.
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