Thought s on knotweed

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Woodduck12
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 135
   Posted 1/24/2018 12:49 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi, I am starting the buhner protocol for Bart. I just added the knotweed only and two tsp of powder from nuherb scince yesterday. So a total of three tsb taken. Yesterday day morning and today I have increased anxiety and intusive thought s. I didnt even add sida or hour yet. when should those be added? The thoughts scare the heck out of me. Is this a herx? I felt like I was slowly getting better just want to clear out my Brain. I feel like I am regressing mentally.

Psilociraptor
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Date Joined Jul 2016
Total Posts : 1228
   Posted 1/24/2018 12:51 PM (GMT -6)   
Knotweed can cause very strong herxes and you are taking rather large doses for a beginner. I had to start on 1/8th tsp. Now I'm at 4tsp. But starting higher nearly put me in the hospital. Not everyone's as sensitive as me but you can certainly dial it back. Even at 1/8tsp I was herxing, but it was much more manageable and almost reassuring that it was working.

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32656
   Posted 1/24/2018 12:53 PM (GMT -6)   
Woodduck - you need to start at a lower dose and increase slowly.


So back down the dose of the knotweed......and wait until you stabilize before adding in the second herb.

Also, start low with the second herb....and increase very slowly...when you're stable on a low dose, add in the third herb..

Once you have all three in at low dose...start increasing one at a time...
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Woodduck12
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 135
   Posted 1/24/2018 12:58 PM (GMT -6)   
Ok thanks! I am a bigger guy so that's why I thought maybe a little more than normal.

Psilociraptor
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Date Joined Jul 2016
Total Posts : 1228
   Posted 1/24/2018 2:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Doesn't always work like that smile It's also a matter of how much of the pathogen you're harboring, how sensitive your immune response is to it, how quickly it's clearing the debris when it dies, how much anti-inflammatory cytokine you're producing to counteract the inflammation, how your microbiota metabolize the herb compounds etc. Weight is just one small factor out of many. Buhner says he's seen skinny women eat tablespoons of herbs and not react and large men being crippled by drops. Whether or not that's true, it wouldn't surprise me so much.

Woodduck12
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 135
   Posted 1/24/2018 3:24 PM (GMT -6)   
What is a good toxin binder. Been clay or charcoal?

PeteZa
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Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9729
   Posted 1/24/2018 3:40 PM (GMT -6)   
Psilo is correct and so is Buhner.

I could take 2 droppers full of J/K easily and not herx at all, but hubby could only take less than a dropperful.

We both started with one drop to "test the waters."

I never used a binder but I detoxed all day long.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32656
   Posted 1/24/2018 4:21 PM (GMT -6)   
Woodduck12 said...
What is a good toxin binder. Been clay or charcoal?


I use activated charcoal.

A binder is good - removal of the toxins in the GI tract so they don't recirculate.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Woodduck12
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 135
   Posted 1/24/2018 4:58 PM (GMT -6)   
I was doing well before the Knotweed. Will buhners Bart protocol make things worse? Or just feel worse for a bit then glad I did it?

Psilociraptor
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2016
Total Posts : 1228
   Posted 1/24/2018 6:14 PM (GMT -6)   
For me, just temporarily worse and then I was glad I did it. A herx is just the inflammatory debris being released from dead bacteria. Ie all the DNA and cell wall components that stimulate the immune system to attack. If you're herxing then basically you're just accumulating dead bacteria and your body is recognizing it and "attacking" and those are the symptoms you are feeling. As it does so it also gobbles up that debris and breaks it down and you excrete it. So the symptoms will start to subside as the immune system clears out the dead bacteria and you will feel hopefully better as you have a lower burden of infection. If you up the dose you increase the concentration of the drug in tissues that are harder to get to so bacteria that weren't killed before will start dying and you will have symptoms again. And then it will go away. And then you increase the dose again and repeat until, hopefully, they're all dead.

So it's largely a matter of concentration. How much of your drug/herb determines how many bacteria die. How many bacteria die determines how much inflammatory debris your immune cells are going to pick up. And remember inflammation kills bacteria too. So the more inflammed you are the more bacteria die. The more bacteria die the more inflammed you become. I've found it not just preferable, but VITAL to keep my doses low. A low dose doesn't just hurt less. It resolves in a matter of days. Where as a large dose for me would quickly become catalytic and lead me to just getting progressively worse and worse over weeks instead of better. So i keep my dose right at the threshold of a herx. Where I just feel a tolerable level of pain that comes and goes with each dose and I don't let it escalate or linger between doses. Once a dose no longer causes a herx i then increase it. And I did this all the way up to a large dose of 4tsp. However, this only worked with knotweed for me. When I tried this with cryptolepis and sida I think they just became tolerant because 3 drops had me herxing like crazy. 6 drops quite a bit. 30 drops... nothing. Just my personal experience though

Post Edited (Psilociraptor) : 1/24/2018 5:17:38 PM (GMT-7)


Woodduck12
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 135
   Posted 1/25/2018 7:54 AM (GMT -6)   
I think I maybe herxing. I am having symptoms that I haven't had in 8 months. Or it's an allergic reaction. From my understanding knotweed doesn't kill Bartonella but stirs it up. Should I be adding Sida or hoot right now?

Spanish
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 137
   Posted 1/25/2018 2:10 PM (GMT -6)   
I Started JK just last week, i had been feeling pretty good for a while so stupidly didnt follow advice of starting with just 1 drop a day. I took about 5 drops the first day then 5 the second day then came the worst herx ive had, all my symptoms came back so I stopped taking it. Im just feeling better again now and plan to start again at 1 drop per day.

Lesson learnt!

Woodduck12
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 135
   Posted 1/25/2018 2:44 PM (GMT -6)   
Yes! I think I'll stop. I took very little today. It's a bear I'm glad it pennatraits the blood Brain barrier. Does sida or houyt cross the BBB?
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