Acute infection - how long is enough for abx?

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kskiska
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Date Joined Jun 2014
Total Posts : 21
   Posted 2/3/2018 11:49 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi everyone,

I've been on combined abx for the past three months after finding an engorged tick on me in early Nov. I got on abx the next day after becoming quickly symptomatic. After 3 months on doxy, azithromycin and pulsed flagyl (plus weekly diflucan) I've started getting heart palpitations and am wondering if it's time to stop? My joint pain and feeling like I'm dying seem to have resolved (for now, at least).

Any advice?

Thank you!

Traveler
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Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 2/3/2018 11:54 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Kskiska,
Do you have any other symptoms of the infections still? Have you had your heart thoroughly tested?

Is it possible that you have untreated infections still, like Bartonella?

The most common practice is to stay in treatment until you have been symptom free for 2 -3 months, and then slowly wean off of treatments.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New set of infections 8/2014 - still treating.
Come visit me: dogwoodtraditionals.freeforums.net/

jackinthebox
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2017
Total Posts : 69
   Posted 2/3/2018 11:54 AM (GMT -6)   
While I don't think any of us can tell you for sure, I think most of us would feel that three months of that much ABX immediately after a tick bite is plenty.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32619
   Posted 2/3/2018 12:04 PM (GMT -6)   
jackinthebox said...
While I don't think any of us can tell you for sure, I think most of us would feel that three months of that much ABX immediately after a tick bite is plenty.


Not if he’s still got symptoms.

Protocol is to treat til symptom free plus several more weeks.

kskiska - you may want to consider seeing a LLMD
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 2/3/2018 12:09 PM (GMT -6)   
^^^ agreeing with Girlie. It all depends on the doses, what infections the person may actually have, and what other medical conditions (both diagnosed and undiagnosed) that the person is dealing with, as they can have a direct impact on the healing of these infections.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New set of infections 8/2014 - still treating.
Come visit me: dogwoodtraditionals.freeforums.net/

kskiska
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2014
Total Posts : 21
   Posted 2/3/2018 12:12 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi everyone,

Thanks for the replies. I haven't been tested as my LLMD said since I was symptomatic from the start, it would be very pricey, and the only thing that would really change is if it was babesia (in which case she would add in an anti-malarial).

The first 2 weeks urgent care had me on doxy 100 mg 2x daily. After 2 weeks I was able to get in to see the LLMD and was put on doxy 200mg 2x daily, 250mg azithromycin 2x daily, plus 125mg flagyl 2x daily on the weekend (I couldn't tolerate more than that).

I think I'm pretty symptom-free at this point, however, my fear is going off treatment too soon and what was an acute infection turning into a chronic one.

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 2/3/2018 12:26 PM (GMT -6)   
So, other than the heart palps, you are symptom free? If so, then I would encourage you to talk to your LLMD about weaning off of the meds to see how you are doing. If the LLMD is experienced, they will know that this doesn't mean you are done for sure with treatments, but it's a trial to see if your symptoms begin to return as you wean off of treatment meds. If so, then you go right back into treatment without delays, but if you don't have any symptoms return after several months, then it's just time to continue keeping yourself very healthy and move on with your life.

We all hope that you will be able to wean off of meds and do well!! We LOVE adding success stories to our little ongoing collection!!
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New set of infections 8/2014 - still treating.
Come visit me: dogwoodtraditionals.freeforums.net/

kskiska
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2014
Total Posts : 21
   Posted 2/3/2018 12:35 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks, everyone, for the feedback.

Do you actually have to wean off the meds little by little and not stop altogether cold turkey?

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 2/3/2018 1:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Yes, it's best to wean off of the meds - the immune system doesn't do well with sudden changes, and stopping all meds quickly can be just what sets you back some, and of course, we don't want that. This also allows for you and your doctors to watch for any symptoms that may be returning and if you should have to restart treatments, then you won't have to start from "square one" again.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New set of infections 8/2014 - still treating.
Come visit me: dogwoodtraditionals.freeforums.net/

kskiska
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2014
Total Posts : 21
   Posted 2/3/2018 1:14 PM (GMT -6)   
That makes complete sense.

Do most people wean by reducing the frequency/how many times per day the meds are taken (twice to once, for example) or by reducing dosage?

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 2/3/2018 1:17 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm not really a good one to ask, as I didn't use pharma abx, but I believe it's done by first reducing dosage, then reducing the number of doses. Hopefully others will be along to add their experiences soon!
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New set of infections 8/2014 - still treating.
Come visit me: dogwoodtraditionals.freeforums.net/

insomniaaa
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2017
Total Posts : 149
   Posted 2/3/2018 3:36 PM (GMT -6)   
Azithromycin and other macrolides can cause life threatening heart issues (long QT syndrome). Ask your doctor for an alternative.

FDA said...
Azithromycin can cause abnormal changes in the electrical activity of the heart that may lead to a potentially fatal irregular heart rhythm.

Post Edited By Moderator (Traveler) : 2/3/2018 3:34:05 PM (GMT-7)


kskiska
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2014
Total Posts : 21
   Posted 2/3/2018 4:30 PM (GMT -6)   
Oh wow, thank you so much for pointing this out regarding heart issues from azithromycin and macrolides. This is the first I've heard or seen it mentioned anywhere. I had assumed the doxy was the culprit.

How these things fly under the radar is beyond me. Neither the doc nor the pharmacist mentioned anything about the potential for heart problems.

insomniaaa said...
Azithromycin and other macrolides can cause life threatening heart issues (long QT syndrome). Ask your doctor for an alternative.

FDA said...
Azithromycin can cause abnormal changes in the electrical activity of the heart that may lead to a potentially fatal irregular heart rhythm.

Post Edited By Moderator (Traveler) : 2/3/2018 3:34:31 PM (GMT-7)


Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 2/3/2018 4:35 PM (GMT -6)   
Sorry, all I did was remove the red print - it can really create a lot of pain in the eyes for some with Neuro issues with their eyes. Thank you for understanding!
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New set of infections 8/2014 - still treating.
Come visit me: dogwoodtraditionals.freeforums.net/

insomniaaa
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2017
Total Posts : 149
   Posted 2/3/2018 5:33 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks traveler for fixing it. Sorry for causing neuro pain in your eyes.
I just wanted to point out that while azithromycin can be very effective at killing bacteria, it does come with some potentially serious side effects that must be considered at all times.
Hence the large bold red font ;)

kskiska said...
Oh wow, thank you so much for pointing this out regarding heart issues from azithromycin and macrolides. This is the first I've heard or seen it mentioned anywhere. I had assumed the doxy was the culprit.

How these things fly under the radar is beyond me. Neither the doc nor the pharmacist mentioned anything about the potential for heart problems.


When did you first notice the heart issues?

I remember my LLMD briefly mentioned the long QT syndrome but he never asked me if I had any previous heart problems. And he never bothered to check my electrocardiogram either.

Post Edited (insomniaaa) : 2/4/2018 3:26:37 AM (GMT-7)


kskiska
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2014
Total Posts : 21
   Posted 2/4/2018 7:37 AM (GMT -6)   
The heart issues started this past week. It got to the point that my chest would hurt for the next day or so after an episode along with a sick, weak feeling for the rest of the day.

My next follow up appt with the doc is not for another 2.5 weeks. Not sure what to do at this point though I've seen some switch from abx over to herbals. Maybe that's an option without having to wean slowly off the abx?

Post Edited (kskiska) : 2/4/2018 6:45:09 AM (GMT-7)


Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 2/4/2018 10:43 AM (GMT -6)   
I assume that those that use that option just don't realize how it affects others. I don't think any of us are here to intentionally do stuff like that - so no worries!!! And thank you for understanding!

It doesn't hurt my eyes all the time any more, but I do still have those days - and I know that we have others here that also deal with this. If not now, then in the future as others join.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New set of infections 8/2014 - still treating.
Come visit me: dogwoodtraditionals.freeforums.net/

jackinthebox
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2017
Total Posts : 69
   Posted 2/4/2018 1:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie said...
jackinthebox said...
While I don't think any of us can tell you for sure, I think most of us would feel that three months of that much ABX immediately after a tick bite is plenty.


Not if he’s still got symptoms.

Protocol is to treat til symptom free plus several more weeks.

kskiska - you may want to consider seeing a LLMD


I think I misread. I thought he said he was symptom-free but the meds were causing his symptoms now.

kskiska
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2014
Total Posts : 21
   Posted 2/4/2018 2:40 PM (GMT -6)   
Just an update: the LLMD txted back that I should stop the azithromycin but continue with the others until I see her.

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 2/4/2018 3:30 PM (GMT -6)   
In one respect, I hope that resolves your heart issues!!! I've been very lucky to not have more serious heart issues since I've been infected for so long. Best of luck in this resolving!!
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New set of infections 8/2014 - still treating.
Come visit me: dogwoodtraditionals.freeforums.net/

acarined
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 175
   Posted 2/4/2018 9:44 PM (GMT -6)   
If I could do it over again I'd take herbals during and after pharmaceutical treatment, they support the immune system and have many other benefits besides being antimicrobial. Buhner and Rawls have excellent protocols.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32619
   Posted 2/4/2018 11:40 PM (GMT -6)   
kskiska said...
That makes complete sense.

Do most people wean by reducing the frequency/how many times per day the meds are taken (twice to once, for example) or by reducing dosage?


Dr J has his patients take the abx less days per month - but still the same dosage.

So it might be something like three days per month - but he also prescribes a pulsing protocol right away - so abx aren’t taken daily even at the start of treatment
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32619
   Posted 2/4/2018 11:42 PM (GMT -6)   
insomniaaa said...
Azithromycin and other macrolides can cause life threatening heart issues (long QT syndrome). Ask your doctor for an alternative.

FDA said...
Azithromycin can cause abnormal changes in the electrical activity of the heart that may lead to a potentially fatal irregular heart rhythm.


The long qt syndrome is rare - and Azithromycin is an abx that is commonly prescribed for lyme treatment.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

kskiska
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2014
Total Posts : 21
   Posted 2/6/2018 7:40 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks everyone for the feedback. Interesting about Dr J's protocol. I wish I could find more online about it. I've been on these for 3 months and my body is starting to feel like 'enough already'.

My LLMD told me to stop the azithro which I did and the heart palps have thankfully stopped. That said, I'm now feeling worse overall and some symptoms (swollen, painful lymph nodes under arm, feeling sick again) I have not had since the start have started to come back. Not sure what that means. If that indicates a co-infection or not necessarily?

Post Edited (kskiska) : 2/6/2018 6:47:05 AM (GMT-7)


Rikky1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2860
   Posted 2/6/2018 8:48 AM (GMT -6)   
>>I've been on these for 3 months and my body is starting to feel like 'enough already'.

you're a lightweight try 3 years of abx like me! ;o)
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