how long? doses-babesia

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HzKabod
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Date Joined Dec 2016
Total Posts : 128
   Posted 2/5/2018 9:39 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm not sure if my strategy has been the best. I'm on a lot of Buhner recommended herbs for lyme, bart, babesia & mycoplasma. I have followed the advice of "low & slow." I hate herxes & have sought to avoid them. As a result, I have only increased dosages if a symptom returns or flares up as new. All of my doses are really low, but I read that it is best to start all the herbs & then start increasing them, so that is what i have sought to do, adding one new herb at a time.

Reading Buhner's recommendation in his book, I should only be on the babesia herbs for 60-90 days. But I don't know if I'll have time to actually build up to an adequate dose in each of those herbs before I need to discontinue taking them. Especially as I have symptoms from the lyme or bart & then need to increase other herbs.

How are you all managing this?

Post Edited (HzKabod) : 2/5/2018 8:44:48 PM (GMT-7)


Dahlias
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Date Joined Jun 2017
Total Posts : 458
   Posted 2/6/2018 1:20 AM (GMT -6)   
I can't answer this as I'm taking the antibiotic route, but I have a similar concern. The protocol I'm on is very aggressive and I've had to add things gradually instead of all at once, so I'm not where I'm supposed to be. I figure I'm in this for a long haul, and I'm going to do what I'm comfortable with. Hopefully someone with experience with herbs will come along soon with some more specific advice. Good luck!
"This too shall pass. It might pass like a kidney stone, but it will pass."

NicHostetler
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Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 622
   Posted 2/6/2018 1:37 AM (GMT -6)   
I would be very very surprised if you could get rid of babesia in 60-90 days.

Most LLMD's will tell you that babesia needs to be treated for a MINIMUM of 4 months which is the life of the red blood cell where they live.

I wonder why Buhner says 60-90 days.. I wonder if he just means you should take a week or two off then do another "round".

I know his bart protocol says 30 days which is also confusing to me..

Loutucky
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Date Joined Nov 2014
Total Posts : 431
   Posted 2/6/2018 5:42 AM (GMT -6)   
I don't know the answer to this. I have been on malarone for 13 months and still have very bad babesia. I have been slowly building up Buhner herbals for lyme, bart and babesia for 4 months. I am only on 33 drops of cryptolepis and 12 drops of bidens pilosa a day for babs.

I have no intention of stopping at this point.

NicHostetler
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Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 622
   Posted 2/6/2018 6:42 AM (GMT -6)   
Loutucky said...
I don't know the answer to this. I have been on malarone for 13 months and still have very bad babesia. I have been slowly building up Buhner herbals for lyme, bart and babesia for 4 months. I am only on 33 drops of cryptolepis and 12 drops of bidens pilosa a day for babs.

I have no intention of stopping at this point.


Are you JUST on malarone? I have never heard of any one getting rid of babesia without another antibiotic added like Zithromax. I could be wrong though. Babesia is a tough one to clear. I have a long way to go..

Loutucky
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Date Joined Nov 2014
Total Posts : 431
   Posted 2/6/2018 6:50 AM (GMT -6)   
NicHostetler, I was on azithromycin or doxycycline until 4 months ago and then Malarone on its own without a prescription antibiotic but taken with herbals. My LLMD says malarone is a little different than mepron because it also has proguanil with the atovaquone which helps resistance from developing.

Not sure what I believe because there are so many opinions on this.

Traveler
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Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 2/6/2018 10:20 AM (GMT -6)   
Buhner almost always states that the Babesia protocol can be repeated as many times as needed. I'm not sure why he believes that most will be able to get rid of Babesia in only 60 - 90 days, as I've certainly not seen that in my 10 years on this forum. Most need several months at minimum to clear this infection.

But, I'm also going low and slow. Not everyone needs full doses of every herb - although our goal is to get to the highest doses we need/can get to. I've been in some very serious, and very long herxes before, so I am doing all I can to stay out of them, as they are not a healthy state for the body to be in, and I believe that being in one for a full 12 months is part of why my adrenals crashed and I ended up with Addison's. So, I agree to be very cautious of herxing. It's simply hard on the body that is already compromised.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New set of infections 8/2014 - still treating.
Come visit me: dogwoodtraditionals.freeforums.net/

Notime4lyme
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 273
   Posted 2/6/2018 4:03 PM (GMT -6)   
I never got diagnosed with babesia-but I think I had it at some point. Artemesia annua really helped me, and I always wondered why Buhner stopped using it.

Rikky1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2860
   Posted 2/6/2018 4:09 PM (GMT -6)   
buhner will repeatedly state that the amount of an herb is just a general guideline and not to be used as a dosage everyone should get to. its completely unique to the individual so you must experiment efficacy for yourself.

there are also studies that show a lower dosage is equal if not more effective than higher doses. more isn't always better.

regarding babesia its VERY difficult to completely eradicate i treated it on and off for 2 years and couldn't shake it. i spent the last year doing the same anti-malarial protocol from Dr. J in DC and i think i've finally shaken it or just about.

for babesia its about consistency and persistence and we're talking months and months at least.

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32622
   Posted 2/6/2018 4:22 PM (GMT -6)   
Notime4lyme said...
I never got diagnosed with babesia-but I think I had it at some point. Artemesia annua really helped me, and I always wondered why Buhner stopped using it.


I believe Buhner recommends Artemisinin now - just not the whole herb.
I don’t have his book with Babs treatment but that’s what others have posted before.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1680
   Posted 2/7/2018 12:33 PM (GMT -6)   
HzKabod said...
I'm not sure if my strategy has been the best. I'm on a lot of Buhner recommended herbs for lyme, bart, babesia & mycoplasma. I have followed the advice of "low & slow." I hate herxes & have sought to avoid them. As a result, I have only increased dosages if a symptom returns or flares up as new. All of my doses are really low, but I read that it is best to start all the herbs & then start increasing them, so that is what i have sought to do, adding one new herb at a time.

Reading Buhner's recommendation in his book, I should only be on the babesia herbs for 60-90 days. But I don't know if I'll have time to actually build up to an adequate dose in each of those herbs before I need to discontinue taking them. Especially as I have symptoms from the lyme or bart & then need to increase other herbs.

How are you all managing this?


I'm in the same boat - going low and slow with Buhner's protocols trying to treat multiple infections simultaneously. I had been ramping up on the tinctures a drop at a time and had possibly the worst bartonella flare ever a couple of weeks ago. I dropped the doses on the killer herbs by 1-2 drops each and added marshmallow root and slippery elm to help with horrible intestinal inflammation. That got me out of the herd but still feeling very poorly. Had a lot of sickness the past 2 months that probably is killing my immune system. Started herbs in June and have only had very brief periods of improvement and many long relapses. I'm going to concentrate more on increasing bidens. I have the feeling that may be a key herb for me.

HzKabod
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2016
Total Posts : 128
   Posted 3/3/2018 1:36 PM (GMT -6)   
OK, it sounds like a lot of inconclusive thoughts on this matter. I think I've read all of Buhner's cautions on every herb that I am taking & put those cautions in my notes to consult as reminders.

Does anyone know of a handy source that tells how long one can safely be on a particular herb? It would be great if there is a chart out there somewhere.

Thanks for your help!
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