Soooo Frustrated and don't know what is going on.

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Mross
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Date Joined Feb 2018
Total Posts : 10
   Posted 2/6/2018 11:51 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi!

I'm hoping someone can relate to this story and can share. Was diagnosed with chronic lyme last year. Began herbal protocal with an LLMD and working with an FMD since last July. In october we added Low Dose Naltrexone. I had three pretty decent months; better energy, stamina, almost no pain. My life started to feel as though it was getting back to the way it used to be. But something changed around mid January. Pretty big backslide. Back to the migrating pain but not as sever, also stiffness, lack of appetite, fatigue again and so napping 45 min to an hour and a half depending . .. . (hard to keep up my basic resonsibilities). I have a father who is 91 that I have to check in on, and an older brother with disabilities I have to do the same. And then there is work, my college age daughter who lives here, and dinner and the house for us. All seems so difficult now. Here are my questions. Is this a long herx reaction? I think there was a virus in the midst of this. Or is what I am doing (herbals, LDN, suppliments not working anymore, or is it the time of year (climate is NE)? I had to change my hormone patch from the combi patch to just the progesterone patch and once every three months progesterone pills - because the price ballooned up to 275$ a month. This just eats through the pocketbook and trying to do what we can. But now I am having some mild depression and wonder if I just have too much estrogen in my system now. <Sigh!>. If anyone can relate I could sure use the input - on what you have done to help, or how you moved through this. Ok - long enough post - and getting off now. Thanks for reading.

Dahlias
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2017
Total Posts : 518
   Posted 2/6/2018 1:40 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi and welcome! I'm sorry you're struggling. That's a lot to deal with and Lyme makes everything difficult. What herbal protocol have you been on? Did you increase the dosage (making a herx more likely) or has it been steady?
"This too shall pass. It might pass like a kidney stone, but it will pass."

Atab004
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Date Joined Feb 2018
Total Posts : 5
   Posted 2/6/2018 1:56 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm so sorry to hear you're hurting again. If you're into more herbal, homeopathic, diet healing. Follow my instagram for herbs, treatments, recipes which will also soon be releasing a youtube channel.

Instagram- Atab004

Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 2/6/2018 3:33 PM (GMT -6)   
Atab, while we do welcome you here, and your valuable information, we don't allow members to "proselytize". This is why I posted in your other thread where you announced how to follow you that you can put those in your profile.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New set of infections 8/2014 - still treating.
Come visit me: dogwoodtraditionals.freeforums.net/

Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 2/6/2018 3:37 PM (GMT -6)   
Mross said...
Hi!

I'm hoping someone can relate to this story and can share. Was diagnosed with chronic lyme last year. Began herbal protocal with an LLMD and working with an FMD since last July. In october we added Low Dose Naltrexone. I had three pretty decent months; better energy, stamina, almost no pain. My life started to feel as though it was getting back to the way it used to be. But something changed around mid January. Pretty big backslide. Back to the migrating pain but not as sever, also stiffness, lack of appetite, fatigue again and so napping 45 min to an hour and a half depending . .. . (hard to keep up my basic resonsibilities). I have a father who is 91 that I have to check in on, and an older brother with disabilities I have to do the same. And then there is work, my college age daughter who lives here, and dinner and the house for us. All seems so difficult now. Here are my questions. Is this a long herx reaction? I think there was a virus in the midst of this. Or is what I am doing (herbals, LDN, suppliments not working anymore, or is it the time of year (climate is NE)? I had to change my hormone patch from the combi patch to just the progesterone patch and once every three months progesterone pills - because the price ballooned up to 275$ a month. This just eats through the pocketbook and trying to do what we can. But now I am having some mild depression and wonder if I just have too much estrogen in my system now. <Sigh!>. If anyone can relate I could sure use the input - on what you have done to help, or how you moved through this. Ok - long enough post - and getting off now. Thanks for reading.


Hi Mross,
Welcome to the community!

I​f ​you haven't ​yet​,​​​​ it would be helpful for you to start with reading through the thread at the top of the forum titled,"New to Lyme?...Start here!!", as​​ ​​it is packed ​​full of ​​important information​​, symptom lists, helpful links and pdf's, how to detox when one has these infections, information on probiotics and much more.​​ ​​​​And, here's another good place to find helpful detoxing rout​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​ines​​:​​​​​​ ​​www.tiredoflyme.com/detox-methods.html​

If you could tell us what your treatment protocol(s) are like, and what you are doing for detoxing, we should be able to help you narrow down what's going on.

It could be that one of your other infections is now 'coming out' because you have one of the more major infections coming under control, could be a lack of detoxing, or if you raised your doses of something suddenly. But, we will need a bit more information before we can be of much help.

Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New set of infections 8/2014 - still treating.
Come visit me: dogwoodtraditionals.freeforums.net/

Mross
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2018
Total Posts : 10
   Posted 2/6/2018 7:46 PM (GMT -6)   
Dalias: Thank you for this (This too shall pass. It might pass like a kidney stone, but it will pass). Sometimes its just a small phrase like this that helps the most. : )

Traveler: Here is my protocol so far. I see the FMD every three months, and am on phone consults with the LLMD about the same.

I am taking 2 tinctures prescribed to me by the LLMD. They are by

1. Beyond Balance and are 1) Tox-ease GL (.Slippery Elm (Bark) Bilberry (Berry) Grape Seed (Seed) Extract. Mullein (Leaf) Elder (Berry) Rosehips (Bud) Red Clover (Blossom) Licorice (Root).

2. MC-BB-1. There is a description of what is in these online. (Stillingia (Root) Motherwort (Tops) Plantain (Leaf) Clove (Buds) Black Walnut (Green Hulls) Red Clover (Blossom) Licorice (Root) Calendula (Flowers)

For the 1 variant I have (MTHFR), am taking Indole-3-Carbinol

Brain (citicoline).

Prosod Catilase (antioxidant)

Adrenal Support by vital nutrients

Thyroid medication : new . . . To increase T3 and has less fillers (not cheap!)

Hormone patch: not cheap! had to change this from the Combipatch to an estrogen only patch with progesterone pills used once every three months because the Combipatch increase to $175.00 a month!! Ouch! This combination is less expensive but not cheap.

Triple magnesium (for joints etc)

Low Dose Naltrexone - made a huge difference from October to mid January. And then this. : (

Omega 3, Vitamine D, multi vitamins

I think this is everything.

With the diagnosis of Chronic Lyme, I also received on for Bartonella as well.

You know - because of the flu that is going around, and because I was asked to not get the flu shot due the fact that it could increase autoimmune symptoms, I stupidly looked into other things to boost my immune. I added (on my own) Echinacia because it builds up white blood cells which I am low on. It didn't occur to me that with more white blood cells, I could also be killing more organisms. Wondering if that what has caused this exacerbation.

I think the moral of this story is . . . . If on a protocol, don't mess with it unless you first check with the doctor. The LLMD suggested to stop the Echinacia as we are already killing microbes.



I'm just wondering how long this will last, its been a month and I'm running out of steam.

Dahlias
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2017
Total Posts : 518
   Posted 2/6/2018 8:07 PM (GMT -6)   
Mross, glad you like my signature. I got a kick out of it. smile

Your protocol is something I have no knowledge of, but I'm sure someone will come by with some input. I don't see anything about detoxing, though. Are you doing anything for that?

Hope you're feeling better soon!
"This too shall pass. It might pass like a kidney stone, but it will pass."

Mross
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2018
Total Posts : 10
   Posted 2/6/2018 8:26 PM (GMT -6)   
MC-BB-1 tincture is for detox as listed above. And I know - the protocol is I guess tailored (via genetics as well) and not purchased as an online product from one of the few doctors I've seen mentioned. I probably need to do more research into helping with the detox. I was told my body doesn't do that very well. Sitting in a sauna for more than 10 minutes for example can cause symptoms to flair. I'll look into what traveler had mentioned to review. If you have suggestions I'm open to hearing about what has worked for you. Thanks for your input.

Dahlias
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2017
Total Posts : 518
   Posted 2/6/2018 9:48 PM (GMT -6)   
I didn't know that's for detox. My favorite method is epsom salt baths with dry skin brushing -- makes the biggest difference for me. I try to drink lemon water and green tea and take burbur and pinella too. Here's a thread with more ideas:
/www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3602759

MooseSafari
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2018
Total Posts : 78
   Posted 2/7/2018 12:41 AM (GMT -6)   
Mross, I have a very similar experience. Exactly one year ago I was experiencing really hard times, I would like to call it hell. That was when Lyme first broke out heavily in my system. I gradually got better and there was a period after summer I felt really fully cured. I felt just super-good. The feeling of getting out of hell was just wonderful. But as winter approached the disease came back more and more, and I had a period right after XMAS it was hell again, although not as bad as last year. Now it is getting gradually better again.

I wonder if it has something to do with wintertime. i.e colder weather, dryer or something like that. Hopefully then the symptoms will get eradicated again as summer approaches.

Did anyone else experience this cycle?

Mross
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2018
Total Posts : 10
   Posted 2/7/2018 7:29 AM (GMT -6)   
Dalias: Thanks for sharing your detox routine. I jUST purchased a dry brush yesterday, and started drinking Lemon water . . . But its 'winterfied' being warmed with Lemon, vanilla stevia, and a little cinnamon. Its actually like 'winter' lemonade. I really liked it. Have begun the Epsom salts again too. I have never heard of Burbur or Pinella - thanks for the link!

Mross
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2018
Total Posts : 10
   Posted 2/7/2018 7:37 AM (GMT -6)   
MooseSafari: Yes! This is exactly what I have been experiencing! I really hope winter doesn't = hard times every year. : (

The greatest frustration is when you feel better - its easy to take on more responsibility - and then when the set back hits - I feel as though I am having to go back on my resonsibilities and let go of my friends.

I guess I've received some feedback from people and its time to set a path. The plan = Ill focus on Detox, and keeping hope high on the list!

Mross
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2018
Total Posts : 10
   Posted 2/7/2018 7:56 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanking people here for your help. I have some research to do, and have a basic plan. Maybe its just as important to listen to a guided meditation with a focus on the positive too. If nothing else, Lyme teaches about patience and keeping positive!

Dahlias
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2017
Total Posts : 518
   Posted 2/7/2018 8:54 AM (GMT -6)   
Watch out for the stevia. Artificial sweeteners can break biofilms (if I'm getting the mechanism right) and release more spirochetes. That can cause an increase in symptoms and also a herx if the herbals kill them. I'm not supposed to use artificial sweetener, but I cheat a little. For awhile I was using too much and I paid for it.

This sure does teach patience! And I do think meditation and positive thinking will help.
"This too shall pass. It might pass like a kidney stone, but it will pass."

MooseSafari
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2018
Total Posts : 78
   Posted 2/7/2018 11:46 AM (GMT -6)   
Yes yes, I know it so well. You feel well for a few days and cockily think you have outbattled it. And it really feels like its all gone and you dont have to be careful with the food. Of course, one falls into the pit again, or at least I do.

The frequent error I keep doing when the sickness is somewhat vanished is over-eating. I went from 85 kilo to 65 and I really want to look less skinny again. So I look for every opportunity to increase the dinner sizes and get them pounds back.
And the system gets plugged and horrorful times comes back again..

Mross
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2018
Total Posts : 10
   Posted 2/7/2018 1:50 PM (GMT -6)   
Dahlias: stevia is the only sweetner that I have been using. Just googled a bit on it and Steveoside A is supposed to bust the biofilms, but no mention of Robaudioside stevia doing that. I guess there are several Stevia. Just looked on my Stevia bottle and its an even different form of Stevia. However, now I'm concerned and might as well eliminate this just to see if it is a contributor.

I have one thing to say about all of this!

"Kidney Stone!" . . .

Mross
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2018
Total Posts : 10
   Posted 2/7/2018 1:58 PM (GMT -6)   
MooseSafari: Yes - diet is something I've been a stickler on even when feeling better. Well - until the holidays and then I decided I could have some of that dark chocolate that someone gave to me, and a little honey here and there should be fine. Did that for about three weeks. Never again!

So I think this current issue is due to several things - maybe - perhaps?

You mentioned your system gets plugged - are you referring to 'the pipes' ... constipation? I have issues with this when eating a trigger food, or if too much stress. If so - I am taking a triple magnesium that is very helpful for sleep, relaxing muscles, and relieving constipation. I also use an over the counter product called CALM which is very helpful (magnesium citrate). The CALM is somthing I found on my own a while ago and was helpful on its own, and the triple mag by (Innate) my FMD has had me on for pain. They are amazing together to help with detox in this manner. Also helped some with pain.

Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 2/7/2018 2:08 PM (GMT -6)   
Sorry, I just kind of fall apart by the time I fix dinner and eat. I'm rarely on here in the evenings. I did look at your protocol, and it looks good for Lyme, you will need to add in Bartonella treatments at some point as well too - but I'm sure you realize that.

With the experience that I had personally, and what I've watched others go through, here is what I believe needs to happen for many of us to heal:

a)Detoxing - gene mutations, multiple tick-borne infections and more can have a big impact on our ability to detox. I have not had any of the gene mutation testing done, although I do seem to have the same kind of issues as those that do (poor detoxer) - so I figured it was best for me to assume that I did and work to get my body to detox much better.

It took a lot of diet changes as things with my body changed,
I use a foot soak,
dry skin brushing,
making sure my bowels moved at least once a day (sorry if it's TMI!)
pushing myself to drink at least 64 ounces of lemon water each and every day,
liver/gall bladder flushes (all natural), as needed,
oil pulling with tea tree oil,
taking activated charcoal, as needed,
Alpha lipoic acid,
Quercetin,
​ turmeric,
Methyl B-12 and methyl folate,
Dandelion tincture,
red root tincture,
Yogi brand detox tea (original flavor)
Have recently added cytokine remodulators - Chinese Skullcap and Red clover extracts
and keeping the amount of stress in my life at a bare minimum.

​ I have used apple cider vinegar to help with detoxing as well - it's really good, but started making my stomach issues worse, so I stopped using it daily and only use it occasionally when I know I need a boost in my detoxing for just a day or two.​

You can find some really good detoxing suggestions in the "New to Lyme?" thread that sits at the top of the forum. And this is another really good resource for detoxing ideas for Lyme patients:
www.tiredoflyme.com/detox-methods.html

But, there is such a thing as over detoxing. This happens when we move more toxins than our body is capable of processing out effectively. Many toxins are stored in our tissues, and by detoxing, we move them to the bloodstream where we can process them out of our bodies through the lymph system, then on to the liver and kidneys as so on. We have to be sure to add in more detoxing routines slowly and carefully, or we will end up herxing just like we had never been detoxing. This article helps to explain that some: www.tiredoflyme.com/4-reasons-why-you-still-feel-bad-despite-detoxing.html


​​​​b)Supporting the body functions/systems. We have to have the body working at it's peak performance to heal from something as devastating as these infections. Supporting any gland, organ, body system that is struggling will allow the body to switch it's 'concentration' from just trying to function over to healing.

​​c) Raise the immune function. Many legitimate Lyme researchers now believe that it's the lowered immune function that determines who gets chronic Lyme and who heals right away. We already know that Lyme lowers the immune function and when a person has Bartonella and/or Babesia, the immune function is further compromised, so to heal we must raise our immune function.

d) Lastly, oddly enough, are anti-infective treatments. Many of us have experienced treatment failures, so we can see that the treatments aren't the only thing we need to have - there has to be more to the equation, but anti-infective treatments are very important!! Lyme bacteria are one of the most complicated bacteria! ​Although it takes only hours or days for most bacteria to replicate, Lyme bacteria only replicates in the body every few weeks.​
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New set of infections 8/2014 - still treating.
Come visit me: dogwoodtraditionals.freeforums.net/

Mross
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2018
Total Posts : 10
   Posted 2/7/2018 3:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Traveler: Yes - I do trust the doctors I am working with. Have had great results until just recently - LLMD said, "for you, I think it will just take time". Genetics show detox is on the lower end. I just don't like that the lag-time between appointments is a good 3 months. I can contact them inbetween, but it doesn't feel efficient. Hence the reason why I have come here. I decided that the Dr's offer what has been researched or established, but here there are people that have been working with other things that are helpful and share what works.

Question - is it possible to know if a person is over or under detoxing? Seems this would dictate what to do to help. I'm sitting here looking at some Epsom salts, and alka-seltzer Gold and a lemon and just not sure if I should take the plunge or not. These were suggestion to diminish Herx.

Anyway -

What are Liver and Gall bladder flushes?

Comment on Activated Charcoal: I hear allot about this, but the LLMD I am seeing suggested to not take it as it binds to some of the herbs we are using which would defeat the purpose of taking them. Just wanted to put that out there as something to consider for others.

What are Cytokines Re-modulators? I know what cytokines are and how bad they are for us, but have never hear of re-Modulators. Very curious.

Apple cider, as well as bone broth, wine, and other such things are out for me. sad My genetics shows I don't detox from histamine well. Am taking a suppliment to help with this but was told to stay aware from them. It was even suggested to NOT eat left overs. Well - I had to draw the line there. I can't cook 5 hours a every day. I've been ok for the most part with left overs.

Thanks for your input, links etc. Very helpful!

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33909
   Posted 2/7/2018 4:33 PM (GMT -6)   
Dahlias said...
Watch out for the stevia. Artificial sweeteners can break biofilms (if I'm getting the mechanism right) and release more spirochetes. That can cause an increase in symptoms and also a herx if the herbals kill them. I'm not supposed to use artificial sweetener, but I cheat a little. For awhile I was using too much and I paid for it.

This sure does teach patience! And I do think meditation and positive thinking will help.


Stevia is not an artificial sweetener - it’s a plant. But you are correct that some LLMD’s prescribe it as a biofilm buster.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

dacarte3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 1903
   Posted 2/7/2018 7:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Not uncommon to have set backs through the treating and healing process. It's a lot of 3 steps forward, 2 steps back. But as long as you bounce back and are taking 1 more step forward than backwards then you are moving in the right direction.

This is a huge reason why it takes people one to multiple years to really fully recover (if treating intelligently and consistently).

Set backs happen but it doesn't mean overall you are not progressing.
Lyme (Igenex) - Positive IFA and WB bands 23, 31, 41
Ehrlichia (Igenex)
Mycoplasma (Labcorp) - Score: 595

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016; 7/2017-9/2017
Buhner Protocol for Borrelia, Babesia, Bartonella and Mycoplasma (treating everything to be on the safe side): May 2016 - Dec. 2016; 8/2017 - Present

MooseSafari
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2018
Total Posts : 78
   Posted 2/8/2018 3:50 AM (GMT -6)   
Many thanks for all these advices, this was a great thread. I will step up the magnesium-intake in evenings and see what effect it will bring.

Mross, yes when I became real ill one year ago I had serious constipation, 6 days or so. After every meal I would shiver for half a day besides a lot of other pain and sickness. It was horrible. thats when I did a real effort to make a thoroughly diet change, and it gradually got better., I felt almost super-well for a short period.
Whenever I eat a little bit larger meal though I can feel the problem coming back again.
All in all, the illness is slowly getting better. Always feeling tired though, like a zombie on high altitude. But that I can live with....

Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 2/8/2018 1:51 PM (GMT -6)   
Mross said...
Traveler: Yes - I do trust the doctors I am working with. Have had great results until just recently - LLMD said, "for you, I think it will just take time". Genetics show detox is on the lower end. I just don't like that the lag-time between appointments is a good 3 months. I can contact them inbetween, but it doesn't feel efficient. Hence the reason why I have come here. I decided that the Dr's offer what has been researched or established, but here there are people that have been working with other things that are helpful and share what works.

Question - is it possible to know if a person is over or under detoxing? Seems this would dictate what to do to help. I'm sitting here looking at some Epsom salts, and alka-seltzer Gold and a lemon and just not sure if I should take the plunge or not. These were suggestion to diminish Herx.

Anyway -

What are Liver and Gall bladder flushes?

Comment on Activated Charcoal: I hear allot about this, but the LLMD I am seeing suggested to not take it as it binds to some of the herbs we are using which would defeat the purpose of taking them. Just wanted to put that out there as something to consider for others.

What are Cytokines Re-modulators? I know what cytokines are and how bad they are for us, but have never hear of re-Modulators. Very curious.

Apple cider, as well as bone broth, wine, and other such things are out for me. sad My genetics shows I don't detox from histamine well. Am taking a suppliment to help with this but was told to stay aware from them. It was even suggested to NOT eat left overs. Well - I had to draw the line there. I can't cook 5 hours a every day. I've been ok for the most part with left overs.

Thanks for your input, links etc. Very helpful!


It's really wonderful that you trust your doctors - it's immensely helpful!! LOL!

To figure out if you are under or over detoxing is a bit tricky, and will involve possibly some uncomfortable days, but it's important to figure it out (unfortunately!). To do this, I prefer to increase my detoxing first - that way I can easily lower it if I find out that I'm already trying to push my body to detox too much. The "symptoms" are essentially the same though - and increase in your symptoms or new symptoms showing up.

If you wish to lower your detoxing first, then do the same thing - watch for an increase in symptoms, and increase your detoxing if you see that happening. But, with what you have said about your detoxing abilities at this point, I would wager that you likely aren't detoxing enough, although you may need to find some more effective, targeted detoxing instead of "just more" detoxing. I like to look at each organ that helps to detox the body and make sure I'm 'hitting' all of them - skin, liver, kidneys, lymph system, intestines.

The liver/gall bladder flushes I use are all natural, and was given to me by my TCM doctor. You can find the recipe on page 2 in the bottom post in the "New to Lyme" thread - but here it is as well:

Traditional Chinese Medicine liver detox
In the morning, 1/2 hour before any food, mix:
1 cup fresh squeezed citrus juice - can be orange or grapefruit .
A couple of good squeezes of lemon or lime juice.
1 - 2 cloves of fresh squeezed garlic
1 tablespoon of olive oil.
A few drops of fresh squeezed ginger juice
Do 2 cycles of 7 - 10 days each, with a 3 day break in between the 2 cycles - OR until you see plenty of bile (dark green color) in your stools.


For some reason, doctors seem to misunderstand the timing of using binders. If they are used 2 hours away (before and after) any meds, herbs, supplements, food or anything that you want your body to absorb, then it's not only okay, but preferable to use. We can't wait until after treatments end to detox - many of us would not survive that long! Our bodies can only handle a certain level of toxins in our body before damage begins. This is what happened to me when I tried my very first treatment for these infections. I was not directed to detox, and it was not understood by the patients at that time how important it was. I ended up with seizures and bed bound for months until I could get detoxed some. It took me over 2 years to get to a point with my detoxing to be able to even leave the house on my own. So, I say, don't wait. If you need to use binders, which are incredibly helpful, then just be careful to follow the guidelines about using them.

Cytokine remodulators help the body to adjust to where it doesn't produce so many cytokines (a little basic, but I'm not sure how else to explain it? Maybe someone else will come up with a better explanation???) The herbs don't necessarily directly attack the bacteria, but help the body do a better job at healing and protecting itself from the bacteria and it's cytokines and other issues.

And I'm very glad to hear that you know you need to stay away from the histamine producers! That's pretty important!!

There is also a lot of controversy about using Stevia as a biofilm buster. It was shown that it works as one....in a test tube, not in a human body, which can be very different, especially with Lyme disease. So we still don't really know if it actually works, but some do feel a difference using Stevia, and some don't. And it's not that those that don't feel a difference with the stevia don't have biofilms - I am "full" of biofilms, if my reaction to cistus incanus tea is any indication at all - and I never once responded to stevia in any way, even though I've used it for over 20 years now. Just something to keep in mind.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New set of infections 8/2014 - still treating.
Come visit me: dogwoodtraditionals.freeforums.net/
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