A few questions about herxing

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Manzanita2
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 127
   Posted 2/9/2018 10:44 PM (GMT -6)   
I’ve been doing the Buhner herbs for almost six months but still can’t get anywhere near the normal doses of any of the antimicrobials. I seem to herx constantly. At least I think it’s herxing because I always feel bad after I increase any anti-microbials and a little better when I back off or stop for a few days. I feel like this is really holding me back so I have a handful of questions:

Is diarrhea a symptom of herxing? When I ramp up I seem to always get it and haven’t been able to pinpoint any particular herb that’s causing it. It just seems like when I increase anything it happens. It goes away when I back down on the anti-microbial herbs.

Am I doing enough? I feel like I must be. I take daily epsom salt baths, dry brush first, drink tons of filtered lemon water, take a binder every day, I walk for exercise, get tons of sleep, take red root, NAC, milk thistle, reduced glutathione. I just ordered some Nutramedix pinella and burbur. I haven’t tried that yet. Could that make a difference? Apparently I’m homozygous on one of the MTHFR genes so I take methyl b. I guess I also have some HLA genes that makes it hard to detox biotoxins. I’m not sure what to do about that one.

Can I heal with a lower dose than is recommended? It seems to me that if I’m herxing, it means something is dying. Maybe I should just stick with a low dose for awhile and see what happens?

Thanks for any input you can offer.

Dahlias
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2017
Total Posts : 518
   Posted 2/10/2018 8:48 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi! I don't have answers, but until sometime who knows comes along, I just wanted to say it sure sounds like you have a good detox regimen. I take burbur and pinella and it doesn't make a huge difference for me but I think it helps with brain fog. Have you tried whether probiotics might help your GI issues?
"This too shall pass. It might pass like a kidney stone, but it will pass."

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1988
   Posted 2/10/2018 9:59 AM (GMT -6)   
Manzanita2 said...
I’ve been doing the Buhner herbs for almost six months but still can’t get anywhere near the normal doses of any of the antimicrobials. I seem to herx constantly. At least I think it’s herxing because I always feel bad after I increase any anti-microbials and a little better when I back off or stop for a few days. I feel like this is really holding me back so I have a handful of questions:

Is diarrhea a symptom of herxing? When I ramp up I seem to always get it and haven’t been able to pinpoint any particular herb that’s causing it. It just seems like when I increase anything it happens. It goes away when I back down on the anti-microbial herbs.

Am I doing enough? I feel like I must be. I take daily epsom salt baths, dry brush first, drink tons of filtered lemon water, take a binder every day, I walk for exercise, get tons of sleep, take red root, NAC, milk thistle, reduced glutathione. I just ordered some Nutramedix pinella and burbur. I haven’t tried that yet. Could that make a difference? Apparently I’m homozygous on one of the MTHFR genes so I take methyl b. I guess I also have some HLA genes that makes it hard to detox biotoxins. I’m not sure what to do about that one.

Can I heal with a lower dose than is recommended? It seems to me that if I’m herxing, it means something is dying. Maybe I should just stick with a low dose for awhile and see what happens?

Thanks for any input you can offer.



I could've written everything you wrote and just swapped out constipation and intestinal inflammation in place of the diarrhea. I've been doing Buhner's for just over 8 months now. I had a couple of days to weeks here and there where I had noticeable improvement, but I'm back in the pit again. I'm stuck with tiny doses of the killer herbs too. I have the HLA thing. I'm sure I have some kind of genetic mutations, as I have tremendous difficulty detoxing, but I haven't had those tests done. I do all the same detox stuff you do and get little if any relief from it.

Buhner says we can heal at a low dose. Right now, it's all the hope I've got unless God miraculously heals me.

Just know you're not alone in how you're experiencing this.

Manzanita2
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 127
   Posted 2/10/2018 2:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks Dahlias. Glad to know I'm on the right track for detoxing. And yes, I do take probiotics. My guts are actually much better than they've been in a long time. I eat fermented foods, too and bone broth and I recently started something called Restore for gut health. I'll see if it helps.

WalkingbyFaith, I'm sorry you're back in the pit again. sad I have also have little stretches of time where I feel somewhat improved and by looking back I realize my heart palpitations, fatigue and muscle weakness are much improved since I started the herbal treatment but I still have so many other symptoms; tremors, vibrations, twitches, numbness, joint pain and headaches. It's hard to recognize improvement unless I really think about it.

Ok, so maybe I'll lower the anti-microbials just slightly and see if that helps with the bad herxing. I should bump up the binders, too. I seem to miss them fairly often because of the empty stomach requirement. I'm curious to see if the pinella and burbur helps. Meanwhile, I'll keep the faith and carry on.

Psilociraptor
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2016
Total Posts : 1351
   Posted 2/10/2018 7:03 PM (GMT -6)   
This was a big roadblock for me for a long time. The ONLY thing that got me over it was to decrease the dose a LOT. I had to start at about 1/8tsp knotweed alone. Even then I still herxed, it just didn't leave me feeling like I was dying. I'm now up to 4tsb with other herbs and doing alright. If you lower the dose to just above the threshold of herxing it should go away in a few days and then you can increase it and repeat.

Manzanita2
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 127
   Posted 2/11/2018 1:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Psilociraptor, thanks for your comments. It's good to know you made progress by going slowly. I think I've just been pushing too hard to kill, kill, kill all those nasty bugs. I'm treating Lyme, Bart, mycoplasma, chlamydia pne., CMV, EBV and HHV6. I take a LOT of different herbs, if not high doses. I'm going to cut back a little on the anti-microbials today and see how that goes. I also got my pinella/burbur yesterday, so keeping fingers crossed.

Thanks so much, all. It's so good to get advice from people who have been there.

Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 2/11/2018 1:11 PM (GMT -6)   
You may find this helpful - I post it from time to time to help others gain perspective of some things:

​​ ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​With the experience that I had personally, and what I've watched others go through, here is what I believe needs to happen for many of us to heal:

a)Detoxing - gene mutations, multiple tick-borne infections and more can have a big impact on our ability to detox.

You can find some really good detoxing suggestions in the "New to Lyme?" thread that sits at the top of the forum. And this is another really good resource for detoxing ideas for Lyme patients:
www.tiredoflyme.com/detox-methods.html

But, there is such a thing as over detoxing. This happens when we move more toxins than our body is capable of processing out effectively. Many toxins are stored in our tissues, and by detoxing, we move them to the bloodstream where we can process them out of our bodies through the lymph system, then on to the liver and kidneys as so on. We have to be sure to add in more detoxing routines slowly and carefully, or we will end up herxing just like we had never been detoxing. This article helps to explain that some: www.tiredoflyme.com/4-reasons-why-you-still-feel-bad-despite-detoxing.html


​​​​b)Supporting the body functions/systems. We have to have the body working at it's peak performance to heal from something as devastating as these infections. Supporting any gland, organ, body system that is struggling will allow the body to switch it's 'concentration' from just trying to function over to healing.

​​c) Raise the immune function. Many legitimate Lyme researchers now believe that it's the lowered immune function that determines who gets chronic Lyme and who heals right away. We already know that Lyme lowers the immune function and when a person has Bartonella and/or Babesia, the immune function is further compromised, so to heal we must raise our immune function.

d) Lastly, oddly enough, are anti-infective treatments. Many of us have experienced treatment failures, so we can see that the treatments aren't the only thing we need to have - there has to be more to the equation, but anti-infective treatments are very important!!
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New set of infections 8/2014 - still treating.
Come visit me: dogwoodtraditionals.freeforums.net/

Manzanita2
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 127
   Posted 2/12/2018 5:46 PM (GMT -6)   
Traveler, thanks so much. I have heard it’s possible to overdo the detox but have had a hard time wrapping my (foggy) brain around that. But I will check out your links and see if maybe some of my problem is related to that. It’s true that I’ve been doing just about every detox I can think of so maybe I’m over doing it. And it’s probably true that I’m pushing it with the antimicrobials. I’ve heard a thousand times that killing the bugs is only one part of healing, so I know better, but I’m guilty of putting too much emphasis on that part.
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