Bartonella treatment

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OriolCarol
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 544
   Posted 2/12/2018 10:33 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi guys

Finally i've can get rifabutin and i'm going to start taking rifabutin 150mg twice daily and doxiciclyne 300mg plus sida acutta and houttuyina. Is it a good combo?

tickbite666
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 1599
   Posted 2/12/2018 11:19 AM (GMT -6)   
its a good start. I would suggest adding Japanese Knotweed. Buhner recommend it will all Bart, Babs and Lyme core protocols

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32507
   Posted 2/12/2018 11:21 AM (GMT -6)   
You can take those together - but doxy is usually 400 mg (200 mg x 2)

A few Other abx you can take with Rifabutin: minocycline , Ceftin , Azithromycin , Biaxin
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1662
   Posted 2/12/2018 1:56 PM (GMT -6)   
OriolCarol said...
Hi guys

Finally i've can get rifabutin and i'm going to start taking rifabutin 150mg twice daily and doxiciclyne 300mg plus sida acutta and houttuyina. Is it a good combo?


Start SLOWLY. Don't kill yourself with a herx. Many find the herbs to be very herx provoking.

OriolCarol
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 544
   Posted 2/12/2018 4:51 PM (GMT -6)   
What dossage is recomended? I want to start with 300mg of doxi and 150 of rifabutin. Is it a high dossage? Tomorrow i will start. Today i thought that i was at the end of my life

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32507
   Posted 2/12/2018 7:00 PM (GMT -6)   
OriolCarol - I'm sorry you are suffering so much. Just know that you are not alone...many of us have experienced some really really bad times.
I cried every single day for months on end in the beginning of my illness.

I would start with the doxy alone for at least few days...and please eat food when taking the doxy - it is hard on the stomach.
You will want to be taking 200 mg twice daily of the doxy.
You can wait a few weeks before adding in the Rifabutin. That dose should be 150 mg twice daily.

The Rifabutin should be taken on an empty stomach.
So when you are on both doxy and rifabutin. When you wake up take the Rifabutin...wait an hour and then take doxy with your breakfast.

And if you're taking your second dose around dinner time, take your Rifabutin...wait an hour and take your doxy with dinner.

You shouldn't have calcium and magnesium with the doxy...so milk/cheese, etc isn't a good idea for meals with doxy. I believe iron supplements shouldn't be taken at same time as doxy either.
If you take Calcium/magnesium/iron, etc. Take it a few hours away from your doxycycline.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Post Edited (Girlie) : 2/12/2018 6:04:13 PM (GMT-7)


Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32507
   Posted 2/12/2018 7:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Also wanted to mention - that Rifampin and Rifabutin may decrease the effects of doxy some.

But, I do know that some LL dr.'s do prescribe them together.


/www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=940-0,2011-0
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

OriolCarol
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 544
   Posted 2/13/2018 12:56 PM (GMT -6)   
I've started with doxycycline today, 400mg. After an hour i've started to have tremors, myoclonus, paresthesias etc... i think it's doing her job

insomniaaa
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2017
Total Posts : 147
   Posted 2/13/2018 1:25 PM (GMT -6)   
I totally agree with WalkingbyFaith on this one.

Do you have any prior experience with the houttuynia and the sida acuta?
Do you know if you will herx on them?

Herxing massively from herbs while being on antibiotics can be a dangerous combination. Just a warning.

Post Edited (insomniaaa) : 2/13/2018 4:51:44 PM (GMT-7)


Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32507
   Posted 2/13/2018 1:47 PM (GMT -6)   
OriolCarol said...
I've started with doxycycline today, 400mg. After an hour i've started to have tremors, myoclonus, paresthesias etc... i think it's doing her job


That’s 200 twice daily, right?

Are you detoxing?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4713
   Posted 2/13/2018 9:10 PM (GMT -6)   
get some mag oil on those twitchers....and some lipo or iv glutithione if u cant detox like crazy . bart lps toxins are excruciating poisonous..try not to cause too much nerve damage going too quik, herxin or driving them inward to marrow.....

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1662
   Posted 2/14/2018 8:26 AM (GMT -6)   
bluelyme said...
get some mag oil on those twitchers....and some lipo or iv glutithione if u cant detox like crazy . bart lps toxins are excruciating poisonous..try not to cause too much nerve damage going too quik, herxin or driving them inward to marrow.....


bluelyme,

I've never heard of this. What are "bart lps toxins"?

I've always heard the experts believed that bart had very little endotoxins and I've never heard any explanation before about bart herxes, which we obviously do have.

bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4713
   Posted 2/14/2018 12:50 PM (GMT -6)   
Lipo polysaccharides ....i guess it helps them evade detection bu immjnity and something with tnf . So i may have gotten confused with terminolgy and ya i do think their double cell wall and outer surface protiens are toxic ...my nerve damage says so.
"Bartonella lipopolysaccaride (LPS) is composed of a unique combination of Lipid A and long-chain fatty acids and likely contributes to the bacteria’s ability to evade the immune system [15]. Empiric data have shown that Bartonella initially evades the innate immune system because its surface molecules are not recognized by TLR-4 on dendritic cells or macrophages, [16], thereby allowing for establishment of what might lead to persistent infection. The LPS does not induce tumor necrosis factor alpha and has reduced stimulation of Toll-like receptor 2 (TLR2) and thus reduced endotoxicity [17, 18]. The LPS of B. quintana may even antagonize the Toll-like receptor 4 (TLR4) [19], which is a key component of innate immunity. " https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jir/2012/612809/

OriolCarol
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 544
   Posted 2/14/2018 2:10 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi guys,

Girlie, yes, It's 200mg twice a day and 150mg of rifabutin twice a day. Doxycycline would be best taken in a single dose, to reach high levels in the central nervous system? I'm taking this plus some herbs (not bactericidal), to alleviate the symptoms, and l-arginine, buhner recommends it, but I do not know why. Another thing I have a retroauricular ganglion inflamed and painful, can bartonella cause this? Thank you very much for the support guys.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32507
   Posted 2/14/2018 3:15 PM (GMT -6)   
OriolCarol said...
Hi guys,

Girlie, yes, It's 200mg twice a day and 150mg of rifabutin twice a day. Doxycycline would be best taken in a single dose, to reach high levels in the central nervous system? I'm taking this plus some herbs (not bactericidal), to alleviate the symptoms, and l-arginine, buhner recommends it, but I do not know why. Another thing I have a retroauricular ganglion inflamed and painful, can bartonella cause this? Thank you very much for the support guys.


Rifabutin first without food...then doxy with food, right?
No, I don't think doxy is prescribed at 400 mg single dosage. Not that I have seen.

What is the retroauricular ganglion symptoms you're having? Is that your ear?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

OriolCarol
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 544
   Posted 2/14/2018 3:29 PM (GMT -6)   
Yes, first rifabutin without food and after doxy with food.

Yes behind my ear, in masthoid. It's inflamed and pain full.

OriolCarol
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 544
   Posted 2/14/2018 3:33 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm still having pressure behind my nose and i'm afraid because i've read about fungal sinus infections and i'm thinking that i have it... images with bone destruction, necrosis... I'm paralized now...

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32507
   Posted 2/14/2018 7:27 PM (GMT -6)   
OriolCarol said...
I'm still having pressure behind my nose and i'm afraid because i've read about fungal sinus infections and i'm thinking that i have it... images with bone destruction, necrosis... I'm paralized now...


Try not to worry yourself sick - I know it's very difficult...but you are treating now...and focus on detoxing those toxins out of your body.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi
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