Stiff and sore torso upon waking up

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notafanofbugs
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts : 9
   Posted 2/13/2018 2:28 PM (GMT -6)   
Anyone else with Lyme & Company have sporadic torso pain early in the mornings upon waking up? Extremely sore and stiff to turn body from side to side. I'm going on 4+ years of antibiotic treatment and have relapsed twice (Babesia), but am currently doing much better and just visited my LLMD last month. This infrequent battle with very sore muscles 'inside' my torso usually lessens considerably upon showering and moving around. It typically dissipates completely within an hour. I can't seem to really tie anything directly to the cause. It isn't a constant situation, so it isn't like I can mention it as a current issue each time I visit my LLMD. I remember decades ago prior to my diagnosis, a sore sternum was an issue, but that has since gone away with treatment.

Is this just something that we have to learn to deal with? (Hate to say this, but sounds similar to fibro comments).

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33842
   Posted 2/13/2018 3:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Welcome notafanofbugs!

I would tell your LLMD about your torso stiffness on waking.
Even though it comes and goes it can still be a symptom of the infections. This is not uncommon with Lyme and co’s.

Now that I’ve been treating for over three years I am getting more of the sporadic symptoms - early on almost all my symptoms were daily.

Sorry to hear you’ve relapsed two times.
Third time the charm?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

notafanofbugs
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts : 9
   Posted 2/13/2018 3:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Thank you! I've had this symptom off and on over time and did mention it to him late last year, but didn't get a specific answer on what it actually is and along with many other symptoms, it disappears for a spell, then rears it's ugly head again. I thought there might be an easy answer as to what it is that I've somehow overlooked.

The more antibiotics I take and the more I read....just makes me wonder. I'm doing weekly acupuncture, biomat, coffee enemas, lymphatic massage, infrared heat, Chinese herbs and tea....lol - you know the story.

I'm still pulsing 2 weeks/month with some heavy hitters so that is also another reason why I'm scratching my head. I cannot tie the pain with the meds or an off week. If it didn't "wear off" so quickly in the mornings, it would definitely make for a rough day. Just the first hour or so.

I appreciate your response and best of luck to you!

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1996
   Posted 2/13/2018 3:22 PM (GMT -6)   
I have stiffness. Not exactly as you described but muscle and joint stiffness. I get soreness in my upper and lower back, and sometimes my hip bones are sore to the touch. I associate that mainly with bartonella. You mentioned babesia. Did you treat bartonella too?

notafanofbugs
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts : 9
   Posted 2/13/2018 3:38 PM (GMT -6)   
Hello Walking by Faith, I too have occasional hip bone pain and lower back pain, but it is manageable. Additionally, my chiro has told me that my right hip is "out" (not sure it that is technically what he said). I can usually tolerate with just stretching and adding heat. I 'thought' that my Bartonella was pretty much under control as my Interstitial Cystitis is virtually gone. I've been chalking most up my aches and pains up there under 'this is what normal is going to look like'. Dr. J has me pulsing some pretty good abx still, including Rifabutin, so not sure what is going on. Like I said, maybe the new norm and will just live with it. I'm not complaining, just wondering if I'm missing the obvious. smile

Thank you!

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33842
   Posted 2/13/2018 3:46 PM (GMT -6)   
I was going to ask if you were seeing Dr J when you mentioned pulsing the meds two weeks per month.

He’s not planning to wean you off yet though, right?

Btw - I don’t have patterns with my symptoms : when I’m on or off meds - doesn’t seem to make a difference.
I know some people will feel better either on or off which helps with the treatment plan
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Post Edited (Girlie) : 2/13/2018 1:49:29 PM (GMT-7)


notafanofbugs
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts : 9
   Posted 2/13/2018 3:57 PM (GMT -6)   
Not until I go back in 4 months... we shall see what he says. smile I've been on maintenance protocol twice, but do believe that I can pinpoint why I relapsed (unfortunately). First time, I believe that I picked up a parasite or just bad eating habits while in the Med for 3 weeks. Second time was after I had 23 bites (I believe mosquito bites) last summer. I'm a bug magnet, no matter what I do. Felt like poo the next day after the bites. Both times, went back on heavy Babs treatment. I think that I just may be one of "those" (unfortunately). I think I was possibly infected as a child (45 years ago possibly, just based on looking back) with obvious symptoms only appearing decades later, then taking 14 years to get it tied to Lyme.

Thank you all for your thoughts and comments....and continued healing for all!

Girlie - just saw your updated comment - I'm really glad to see that as I feel the same most of the time. I only feel like crud while on the meds, just from the med effect.

Post Edited (notafanofbugs) : 2/13/2018 2:00:04 PM (GMT-7)


WalkingbyFaith
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Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1996
   Posted 2/13/2018 5:31 PM (GMT -6)   
notafanofbugs said...
. . . . I'm a bug magnet, no matter what I do. . . . I think that I just may be one of "those" (unfortunately). I think I was possibly infected as a child (45 years ago possibly, just based on looking back) with obvious symptoms only appearing decades later, then taking 14 years to get it tied to Lyme.


1) Bug magnet - increasing immune function should reverse that. Once you get through treatment, try Astragalus. That's the one that's supposed to do it. In the meantime, use whatever effective bug repellent you can tolerate.

2) I don't think you're one of "those," and I don't think this is the new normal or the best you can get. I think you're still having bartonella symptoms.

3) I'm 48 and also believe I was infected since birth or early childhood with obvious symptoms appearing just before turning 40. I feel like the longer you've had the bugs, the more complex the dysfunction gets and the longer it takes to unravel the knots and peel back the layers.

I hope you will address this with your doctor again. I wouldn't settle so easily. If the bartonella or other infections are still rambling around, things are not likely to just stay as they are with no other symptoms. One thing too is unless you can read and remember everything Buhner explains in his books about what the infections do in the body, you don't know how the infections are altering body functions behind the scenes while we tolerate or ignore them. Just my perspective.

notafanofbugs
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts : 9
   Posted 2/13/2018 7:44 PM (GMT -6)   
I totally agree with your comment about the length of time prior to diagnosis and treatment. Scary to think what has happened during this lapsed time. I've probably been reading too much information recently and that has me thinking in all sorts of directions about what could be going on. But, with that said, I am in zero pain at the moment. Zilch. If the sun was out and the weather warm, I'd be up for a fast paced walk and might even try jogging. I'm going to keep fighting the fight like all of us have to do. Day by day. Bartonella was clinically diagnosed and I never questioned that diagnosis as I was used to having swollen lymph nodes and IC pain for years. Fortunately, those issues are behind me now. I sure hope that I've got that one under control, but will keep that in mind moving forward with my conversations with doc. Thank you so much for taking time to give me your thoughts. I really appreciate it!

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33842
   Posted 2/13/2018 8:15 PM (GMT -6)   
notafanofbugs - when you went on maintenance the two times before - were you symptom free then?

I'm seeing Dr. J now after over three years treating with a LLND in my Province...and plateauing.

I'm optimistic that this change will help me cross the finish line. (my fingers are crossed)

I'm also a bug magnet...always have been.
My husband, son - when we went camping...I would get several mosquito bites in a few hours....and they wouldn't have any.
When we go to the lake for a swim...my husband is swatting the wasps off me....
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33842
   Posted 2/13/2018 8:16 PM (GMT -6)   
I agree with what WbF said - sounds like symptoms that still need to be addressed.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

notafanofbugs
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts : 9
   Posted 2/13/2018 9:05 PM (GMT -6)   
I've never been completely symptom free and actually wasn't under the impression that I would be, even when I went on 'maintenance'. My husband travels with me for doc visits, so I just verified with him as well, in case I might have missed something. We've talked about various issues in the office and have left with the understanding that the body just needs time to heal, based on the number of years that I've had in my system. I'm attributing age to some of this possibly as well - smile smile lol.

As for the bug situation, it seems that I hear that same common theme too often -- one person gets eaten alive and the other one is like "what bugs?" smile ha! Our lawn care guy who sprays for mosquitos told me that he hears that constantly from his clients.

Thanks for the tip on Astragalus WbF!!

Again - thanks all!

astroman
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5083
   Posted 2/13/2018 10:16 PM (GMT -6)   
notafanofbugs - There are some beginner floor strengthening exercises, called bridging that are good for the core. You tube would have them, your chiro should have some info on this. A very deep, strong internal muscle called the Psoas can be responsible for internal core stiffness.

This internal muscle can be accessed and released with skilled fingers between the lower inside edge of the Illiac Crest and the gut wall. This is done on your back or side with thighs bent at 90 degrees, insert fingers together at said location then straighten out thighs. It will be sore but this will release the tension. This muscle is often forgot about since its internal, but its responsible for huge deep pains/stiffness and will twist your hip/pelvis if only one side is tight. A good chiro who does more than cracking joints should know this.

My story, or "lyme-line", is similar to yours. I had body stiffness and occasional muscle spasms for decades, which eventually got worse and changed my life around 2005. Drs blamed it on a somewhat extreme sport I used to do, until the pain got worse after retirement from that. It became very MS like.

Now a few years after lyme treatment I continue to rebuild my muscle and tendon strength. I get stronger every week. I started doing a lot of myofacial muscle release in the core, then moved outward to the limbs. The core must be strong and L-R tension-balanced before strengthening limbs.

I would also suggest a fitness foam roller (for back and legs) and learn muscle release by rolling on a LaCross ball (for glutes)- all this is offered on you-tube. If everyone learned and did this, chiros would have very few customers. Its a good life skill to learn/have.

Post Edited (astroman) : 2/14/2018 8:34:40 AM (GMT-7)


notafanofbugs
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts : 9
   Posted 2/14/2018 8:10 AM (GMT -6)   
astroman - This is really good to know about that internal muscle (Psoas)! You can bet that I'll be addressing with my chiropractor asap. I am totally onboard with this information that you provided and will certainly be looking into this in-depth. It makes a lot of sense.

Thank you so much!

I appreciate your thoughts and best of luck for your continued healing. smile
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