Rifampin and/or Azithromicin Herx or something else

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mareish
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Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 221
   Posted 2/13/2018 1:32 PM (GMT -6)   
Last Thursday I began Rifampin and Azythromycin. Felt great the first few days. Better than I had felt in a while. Then yesterday afternoon, whamo! Developed a real ache and pain on outside of left hip. Went to bed early because of the discomfort. Could not sleep most of the night because I was unable to find a comfortable position. Got up this morning and was almost unable to walk. As the day goes on I am having similar pains on the insides of my thighs and in butt cheeks. Painful to sit and walk and can't get comfortable horizontally. Occasional neck and upper back pain, too.

Some of the painful areas almost feel bruised and are very sore to the touch. Feels much more soft tissue related than joint.

Has anyone else experienced anything similar while on either or both of these drugs?

Wondering if it is a herx or if it is an unpleasant side effect of either drug.

I would like to try an epsom salt bath but don't think I am able to get into the tub and most likely can't sit in it because of pain.
Lyme CDC POS
Bartonella POS
Ehrlichia POS
CD57 30, then 12, now 64

WalkingbyFaith
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   Posted 2/13/2018 2:38 PM (GMT -6)   
Sounds like the story of my bartonella life. I get all the same pains, exactly like you described. Only difference is I'm not on abx. I'm using Buhner's protocol. I had all those symptoms before I knew I had Lyme and co, but they definitely increase when I increase or add herbs that hit bart.

If you need to, back off some on your dose until it calms down some. I'm sure others will tell you to detox, but I do lots of detoxing and feel little help from it. Epsom salt baths help me the most. Heat helps my pain. I just used a heating pad the last two nights and it helped a lot. I just moved the pad around to different areas that hurt, and it helped the muscles relax and I went right to sleep.

Don't know why it took so long for me to think of the heating pad. When I had bone pain in my legs as a child, my mama used to put hot rags on my legs or put me in a tub of hot water.

mareish
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Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 221
   Posted 2/13/2018 3:10 PM (GMT -6)   
WalkingbyFaith - You are a genius! Had not thought of a heating pad.

Sorry you've had the same pains, but it puts ones mind a bit at ease to know others have experienced the same.

Thank you.
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CD57 30, then 12, now 64

BabsBunny
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   Posted 2/13/2018 3:26 PM (GMT -6)   
I used to have awful hip pain, and sometimes it flares up. I have a fabric sack filled with rice that I microwave 2-3 minutes for a heat pack. It's sooo nice. Some people just fill a sock with rice and microwave that.

Curcum-Evail (curcumin) is what really alleviated my pain. It's highly bioavailable because it contains fat.

I took Rifampin and Zith, had basic achy muscle herxes, then Babesia came out to play and I switched to treating that.
Lyme, Babesia, Bartonella. Symptoms began 5/2016, didn't start treatment until 9/2016. Slow but steady recovery.

*twitch twitch*

mareish
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Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 221
   Posted 2/13/2018 4:26 PM (GMT -6)   
Thank you, BabsBunny. Don't know why I have not thought of the rice sock and/or heating pad until you and WalkingbyFaith mentioned them. Hard to think straight when the pain is intense, I guess

I use to use both on my head and neck.

Think I'll try the Curcum-Evail.

Thanks again
Lyme CDC POS
Bartonella POS
Ehrlichia POS
CD57 30, then 12, now 64

WalkingbyFaith
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   Posted 2/13/2018 4:37 PM (GMT -6)   
I hadn't thought about rice. I've never done that before. You just put dry uncooked rice in it?

mareish
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Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 221
   Posted 2/13/2018 4:44 PM (GMT -6)   
Yes, dry, uncooked rice.

mareish
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Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 221
   Posted 2/13/2018 5:04 PM (GMT -6)   
BabsBunny, How much of and how often do you take the Curcum-Evail? Thanks
Lyme CDC POS
Bartonella POS
Ehrlichia POS
CD57 30, then 12, now 64

Rikky1
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   Posted 2/13/2018 5:47 PM (GMT -6)   
you're experiencing the wonderful herxing from rifampin. its a special drug in that if any other abx hasn't kicked your proverbial butt this one will.

when you first start for some it hits them same day others it can take a week or two as we're all different. for me my crazy first LLMD gave me rifampin and cipro together for the first time and after about 2 weeks it put me in the ER the symptoms were very similar to having a heart attack.

do lots of detoxing and follow any suggestions like folks posted here to get as much symptom relief as you can.

mareish
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Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 221
   Posted 2/13/2018 5:57 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks, Rikky1. Did you continue to take the combo following your ER visit?
Lyme CDC POS
Bartonella POS
Ehrlichia POS
CD57 30, then 12, now 64

BabsBunny
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   Posted 2/13/2018 7:16 PM (GMT -6)   
mareish said...
BabsBunny, How much of and how often do you take the Curcum-Evail? Thanks

Early on I took one (1000mg) a day. When Lyme pain got really bad I had to up it to 2 x a day, which I’m currently still on. I consider it my miracle drug, but I must add that I’d already been taking 2-3000 mg of Omega3 which is also anti inflammatory. However, the real relief comes solely with CurcumEvail (take it away and I get either pain or dizziness)

If you’re worried about the price, there’s an exact copy made by Adaptogen Research called BioCurcumin Plus for a little cheaper. I usually buy a bottle of each and take one each a day, just in case there’s a quality difference.

I would start with one for a few days and see if it helps (the herx subsiding might help too). If not take 2 (Check with practitioner first [disclaimer: I’m not a doctor, etc]) but I don’t think there are any contraindications for Curcumin (maybe blood thinners)
Lyme, Babesia, Bartonella. Symptoms began 5/2016, didn't start treatment until 9/2016. Slow but steady recovery.

*twitch twitch*

mareish
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 221
   Posted 2/13/2018 7:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks, Babs! I've already ordered it and it should be here by Friday. Appreciate the advice.

Is Omega 3 fish oil? Not sure but think I remember someone telling me to stay away from it because of the Mercury possibility. Very likely, though, I am confusing it with something else. Last March I had elevated Mercury levels from fish eating. As soon as I cut out the fish, the Mercury levels went way down.
Lyme CDC POS
Bartonella POS
Ehrlichia POS
CD57 30, then 12, now 64

BabsBunny
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Date Joined Mar 2017
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   Posted 2/13/2018 9:10 PM (GMT -6)   
mareish said...
Thanks, Babs! I've already ordered it and it should be here by Friday. Appreciate the advice.

Is Omega 3 fish oil? Not sure but think I remember someone telling me to stay away from it because of the Mercury possibility. Very likely, though, I am confusing it with something else. Last March I had elevated Mercury levels from fish eating. As soon as I cut out the fish, the Mercury levels went way down.


I use Designs for Health OmegAvail TG1000 which im guessing is very pure, though I’ve never had an issue that requires me to be diligent. They have other formulations and a liquid form. Again, very expensive but good fish oil with no soy or corn additives, and actual DHA/EPA content is so hard to find, and it usually requires 6 pills a day, so I just bite the bullet and use the expensive stuff. I needed very high levels for my initial protocol but at this point could probably get away with 1 a day.
Lyme, Babesia, Bartonella. Symptoms began 5/2016, didn't start treatment until 9/2016. Slow but steady recovery.

*twitch twitch*

mareish
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 221
   Posted 2/13/2018 9:30 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks again, Babs. Something else I will order. Really appreciate your experience and help.
Lyme CDC POS
Bartonella POS
Ehrlichia POS
CD57 30, then 12, now 64

BabsBunny
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Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 530
   Posted 2/14/2018 7:22 AM (GMT -6)   
Glad to help! Please let me know if it works for you! It was wonderful for me but I haven’t heard from anyone else if it helped them too.
Lyme, Babesia, Bartonella. Symptoms began 5/2016, didn't start treatment until 9/2016. Slow but steady recovery.

*twitch twitch*

mareish
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 221
   Posted 2/14/2018 7:26 AM (GMT -6)   
Will do.
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Bartonella POS
Ehrlichia POS
CD57 30, then 12, now 64

insomniaaa
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2017
Total Posts : 149
   Posted 2/14/2018 8:48 AM (GMT -6)   
Rikky1 said...
you're experiencing the wonderful herxing from rifampin. its a special drug in that if any other abx hasn't kicked your proverbial butt this one will.

when you first start for some it hits them same day others it can take a week or two as we're all different. for me my crazy first LLMD gave me rifampin and cipro together for the first time and after about 2 weeks it put me in the ER the symptoms were very similar to having a heart attack.

do lots of detoxing and follow any suggestions like folks posted here to get as much symptom relief as you can.


Hey Rikky1.
Thanks for your input.

Did you take the Rifampin on an empty stomach or with food ?

How do you know that it was the Rifampin that messed with your heart and not the Ciprofloxacin ?

Is Rifampin known to cause heart issues?

I just checked the FDA warning on fluorquinolones and apparently one of the side effects is:
Abnormally rapid or irregular heart beat

Post Edited (insomniaaa) : 2/14/2018 7:59:44 AM (GMT-7)


BJD55
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2017
Total Posts : 376
   Posted 2/14/2018 10:12 AM (GMT -6)   
Mareish, I hope you're finding some pain relief, that sounds like torture.

Did you have these same pains at all before the azith and rifampin?

Please keep us posted as to how this situation resolves.
Best Regards,
BJD

Post Edited (BJD55) : 2/14/2018 9:38:11 AM (GMT-7)


mareish
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Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 221
   Posted 2/14/2018 10:29 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks, BJD55. The pain has intensified significantly in the left hip to the point I am unable to sleep or get comfortable. Trying to get in to see an orthopedic guy today. Will keep you posted.

No, I did not have the left hip pain prior to the meds. I'm not certain they are the cause, but I have not had an injury or stress to the hip in the last several days that I am aware of. Confounding!
Lyme CDC POS
Bartonella POS
Ehrlichia POS
CD57 30, then 12, now 64

BJD55
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2017
Total Posts : 376
   Posted 2/14/2018 10:38 AM (GMT -6)   
mareish said...
Thanks, BJD55. The pain has intensified significantly in the left hip to the point I am unable to sleep or get comfortable. Trying to get in to see an orthopedic guy today. Will keep you posted.

No, I did not have the left hip pain prior to the meds. I'm not certain they are the cause, but I have not had an injury or stress to the hip in the last several days that I am aware of. Confounding!


You might check user reviews online for folks using rifampin for other conditions. That might give you some idea if it's herx or side effects.
https://www.drugs.com/comments/rifampin/

mareish
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 221
   Posted 2/14/2018 10:43 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the info, BJD55. Going to look at it now. Have an apt w/primary care doc this afternoon.
Lyme CDC POS
Bartonella POS
Ehrlichia POS
CD57 30, then 12, now 64
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