indole-3-carbinol binds with candida DNA

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astroman
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   Posted 2/14/2018 5:28 PM (GMT -6)   
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17613172

I never heard of I3C before, stumbled accross it, there are a few other places mentioning its anticandida properties also.

Georgia Hunter
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   Posted 2/15/2018 4:56 AM (GMT -6)   
astroman said...
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17613172

I never heard of I3C before, stumbled accross it, there are a few other places mentioning its anticandida properties also.

Just another reason to eat a plant based diet with less animal protein. I3C is found in plants and for those that have estrogen issues, I3C has been shown to induce estrogen metabolism. It helps with cervical neoplasia, increasing T cell formation, and helps reduce estrogen levels (which really helps for Lupus.) There are other things in plants that help them work and IMO, it is the combination of these things that makes them effective. I am not big on supplementing I3C. You do need a low pH in your stomach to produce I3C when eating plants and those taking acid reducers may not be able to generate it.

Caution should be taken in supplementing it if you have breast cancer. It does not have a predictable response.

cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/3/7/591.short

Georgia Hunter
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   Posted 2/15/2018 5:12 AM (GMT -6)   
Astro, on a side note, I found this and thought it may pertain to your condition.

"Some of these enzymes, e.g. cytochrome P-450 and UDP-glucuronyl transferase,
are membrane-bound and have been shown to require phospholipids for
maximum expression of activity in vitro. Radicals produced during lipid
peroxidation (133) can destroy the heme of cytochrome P-450 as well as
inactivate residues of proteins and mark them for proteolytic digestion (40).
The hypothesis has been advanced that lipid peroxidation can disturb calcium
sequestration and lead to cell toxicity (23). Others have argued that these
calcium disturbances probably result from other phenomena such as alkylation
of critical amino acid residues related to calcium homeostasis."

bluelyme
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   Posted 2/15/2018 5:23 AM (GMT -6)   
You always feed us the very best info georgia h thanks ...
Doesnt crazy ***** and others speak of the way bartonella calcifies in its wake ....? Astro how long did you treat bart ?

Post Edited By Moderator (Girlie) : 2/16/2018 11:53:50 AM (GMT-7)


astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
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   Posted 2/15/2018 10:32 AM (GMT -6)   
Georgia Hunter said...
Astro, on a side note, I found this and thought it may pertain to your condition.

"Some of these enzymes, e.g. cytochrome P-450 and UDP-glucuronyl transferase,
are membrane-bound and have been shown to require phospholipids for
maximum expression of activity in vitro. Radicals produced during lipid
peroxidation (133) can destroy the heme of cytochrome P-450 as well as
inactivate residues of proteins and mark them for proteolytic digestion (40).
The hypothesis has been advanced that lipid peroxidation can disturb calcium
sequestration and lead to cell toxicity (23). Others have argued that these
calcium disturbances probably result from other phenomena such as alkylation
of critical amino acid residues related to calcium homeostasis."


I need someone to translate this in plain English LOL. Funny, I read that same info yesterday googling IC3, but didnt save the link.

The thought of soft tissue calcification has crossed my mind in the past, limited luck researching on diagnosing this. I think when this happens, it happens to you skin as well, and my skin pretty normal density.

There was a post here a couple days ago on P-450, I've never looked into it.

On the subject of calcium, my level was normal for years , then dropped last year at the same time I gave up dairy. I supplement with a NOW brand algae calcium (odd source). It has no effect so far.

Post Edited (astroman) : 2/15/2018 9:26:14 AM (GMT-7)


bluelyme
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   Posted 2/16/2018 2:31 AM (GMT -6)   
astro have you successfully treated bart for a few year duration?

Post Edited By Moderator (Girlie) : 2/16/2018 11:55:04 AM (GMT-7)


Georgia Hunter
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   Posted 2/16/2018 5:37 AM (GMT -6)   
Astro, it just means you may have had too many free radicals from lipid peroxidation and that may have been what caused your issues.

I have never, and don't think I ever will, believe the testing for many nutrients in the body. The problem I see is that most nutrients need transports or other things to facilitate their movement between compartments. Having something in your blood, and actually utilizing that agent are often very different things. There are so many cofactors, enzymes, and substrates that we just can't look at one item. pH is also a factor in transport and utilization.

From what I can tell, EVERYTHING comes or happens because of methylation. Science may not be able to explain it yet, but it happens because of methylation. As an example, yesterday I was studying the 3 classes of substrates in the body and how they are metabolized. I came across some information I had never seen or considered. One of the purposes of methylation is to make purine and pyrimidine structures to make DNA. This is well known. But I did not know that pyridine rings are made from niacin and when methylation is decreased, say from a MTHFR or MTRR mutation, niacin is used up and that tryptophan is then used to make pyridines. This leads to tryptophan deficiency and neurotransmitter pathway insufficiencies which can lead to anxiety, insomnia, nervousness, depression, and a lot of other conditions that many of us have. I knew tyrosine insufficiency was prone to being an issue in that pathway, but now you have the two starting ingredients being an issue along with BH4 blockages and pterin deficiencies. It's a miracle that pathway ever works with people like us. This is why the blanket approach to supplementation seems to be the most effective. Yasko and others give a little bit of everything in an attempt to normalize the system. From what little I have seen, I think this helps more than anything supplementation wise. If we could just figure out how to normalize the pathogens.

astroman
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   Posted 2/16/2018 10:29 AM (GMT -6)   
Georgia - "Having something in your blood, and actually utilizing that agent are often very different things."

I hear ya there, thyroid hormone can do the same thing. Very high T3 blood levels with combined high reverse T3 receptor levels are exactly that. Without the accomaning RT3 test, a Dr might assume the patient is hyper, when in fact they are hypo.

I have never done Hair nutrient testing which sounds promising, but have used Spectra Cell nutrient testing which is inner cell levels as opposed to free blood levels.

Whatever the reason for my stuck muscles, adhesions and stiff tendons, they are improving a lot. Topical DMSO seems to helping too. I think a lot was from many things, to much AM cortisol also. I'm now further healing areas of multiple acquired injuries across my whole body from 20-25 years ago.

Post Edited (astroman) : 2/16/2018 8:34:14 AM (GMT-7)


astroman
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   Posted 2/16/2018 10:33 AM (GMT -6)   
Blue- my LLMD didnt suspect Bart but did say if I did have it at one point - the year of multiple ABX would have taken care of the local strains.
Had initial lyme symptoms late 80's, then again and with bullseye early 90's. Ended ABX for Lyme in 2015. Rebuilding / fine tuning / fixing muscles since then; member "10 Percenters Lyme Club". What an adventure this has been. Hashimotos adds to the enjoyment.

bluelyme
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   Posted 2/16/2018 1:34 PM (GMT -6)   
Bart is double cell wall you would have had to been on rifampin paired with zith or doxy...mine took 2yrs abx bvt herbs and riff for a simple bacciliformis .....a 5 min giemsa stain with a simple microscope could confirm if you have bart .. if you ever had a cat ... it probably in there... u could massage roll cramps or nutrient up all day but the little thing eat nerves all day too

And ask girlie how long bart treatment takes on some people?

Thanks georgia for the methylation tid bit

Post Edited (bluelyme) : 2/16/2018 11:37:26 AM (GMT-7)


Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33785
   Posted 2/16/2018 1:52 PM (GMT -6)   
bluelyme said...
Bart is double cell wall you would have had to been on rifampin paired with zith or doxy...mine took 2yrs abx bvt herbs and riff for a simple bacciliformis .....a 5 min giemsa stain with a simple microscope could confirm if you have bart .. if you ever had a cat ... it probably in there... u could massage roll cramps or nutrient up all day but the little thing eat nerves all day too

And ask girlie how long bart treatment takes on some people?

Thanks georgia for the methylation tid bit


Rifampin can also be paired with minocycline and/or biaxin...maybe a little Ceftin/Omnicef, too. Heck, lets' throw in some Bactrim DS for good measure. (not all at the same time...lol)

Well, I treated bartonella for over a year...and then had a pcr - blood test show it's still there.
My case is a little complicated though...because part way through that year of treatment, I had a nasty cat bite...from a cat who had an undiagnosed heart problem. He died after he bit me (well, he was 'put down' after his heart through a blood clot into the junction where the artery splits to the two hind legs and paralyzed him) Doc said he was already in cardiac distress and was going to die anyway.
Probably had bart. My symptoms increased shortly after...but stupid me ...I was also 'playing around' with my treatment at the same time.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33785
   Posted 2/16/2018 1:56 PM (GMT -6)   
Sorry Blue/Astro - edited some posts regarding a certain someone - out of respect for Traveler...and also others who have been attacked by this person.



can't mention the name or website...
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5080
   Posted 2/16/2018 2:02 PM (GMT -6)   
"5 min giemsa stain with a simple microscope could confirm if you have bart"

- What is a giemsa stain ?

Thing with self microscopy is we have all kinds of critters in our blood. Would be easy if they all carried name tags.

My stuck muscle are a mystery, but way better now. In one year my strength doubled in certain muscle groups. That seems unlikely to happen if I still have an infection of some sort. I function pretty good and dont feel sick anymore.

One interesting note about muscles- I did have a test 4 years ago that showed muscle catabolism which can be from excess cortisol damaging tissue and autoimmune tissue damage (I had both).

Cats......they are filthy critters, I will never own one ha ha. Never understood why people with kids allow cats in their home.

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33785
   Posted 2/16/2018 4:34 PM (GMT -6)   
My cat is an indoor only cat so she’s clean. Does she carry Bart like the other one?
Possibly - but she doesn’t appear sick so hoping she is well. humans also carry diseases and I wouldn’t cut them out of my life either...lol

If I had seen any evidence of my other cat being sick I would have taken him to the vet for treatment.
I don’t know for sure if he had Bart - just a suspicion.

No dirtier than dogs - do you have a dog?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Post Edited (Girlie) : 2/16/2018 2:38:04 PM (GMT-7)


astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5080
   Posted 2/16/2018 10:54 PM (GMT -6)   
I dont have animals in my home as I grew up with way too many. I have friends and family directly in the vet and animal business, the cat thing is not a personal opinion that I conjured up.

Cats transmit stealth illness to people (especially children) many more times than dogs. Part of this reason is many cats have bart (40%) and scratch around in their kitty liter boxes getting spreadable bacteria in the home and on people. Some cats climb up/sit on the meal preparation/ eating surfaces too, with bacteria in their paws from the kitty litter box. A full time indoor only cat is probably the way to go.

Cats do carry "stealthier" bacteria in their mouths than dogs do too. Average cat bites are more likely to lead to serious infections than dog bites. That said, people who kiss their dogs on the mouth, aren't to bright either LOL.

Obviously a rabid dog can do a person harm. I know what its like sitting in ER after a German Shepard attack, waiting for vet records with the next and only step being Rabies shots. That dog was put down, good idea since I was the third person it went out of its way to attack.

We generally do what we need to do in order to not contract disease from people who are known to be carrying something transmittable. Unfortunately sometimes people let their guard up and sometimes die from these poor decisions. And sometimes they obviously had no idea.

www.careyscats.com/qa/do-cats-carry-diseases/

Post Edited (astroman) : 2/16/2018 9:27:28 PM (GMT-7)

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