Hawthorne Hex?

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Woodduck12
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 156
   Posted 2/16/2018 3:36 PM (GMT -6)   
. I really did well on buhners bart protocol I got the full dose of knotweed powder. I tolerated the full does of houtyannia powder. I just added the full does of Sida tincture two weeks ago everything seemed to be going well. until Monday. I added the Hawthoren and thats when thinks changed some of my old problembs have cam back. Full blown Panic attacks, Bad intrusive thinking, flushing of the face, light fever, tinnitus and heavyness in the limbs and buzzing in my feet. My last does was yesterday at about seven I am tasking charcoal and drinking lots of filtered water.

my question to you is could Hawthorne cause a herx? I started these herbs three weeks ago and this is my first week with all the herbs the only exclusion is the L arginine. Will any of these burner herbs that I am currently taking hit Lyme?

Is stopping the protocol a good idea? I just here some of the horror stories of herxing sending people to the hostpitial. it seems to be waing and wannning.

Last question about every three to six weeks I do noticed a flare of mainly ocd type symptoms its almost like clock work. Is this lyme cycling?

Thanks,

goshawk
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Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 2293
   Posted 2/16/2018 4:09 PM (GMT -6)   
Just so I get it right, did you just dd the Sida for the first time 2 wks ago?


Sida acuta in full doses could cause a strong herx at least in my experience and even though it was two weeks ago you could be still herxing from it.


Hawthorn didn't seem to bother me too much, It can lower your blood pressure. so be cautious of that. It is supposed to be protective of the heart.


Do you also have coinfections?


T

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33837
   Posted 2/16/2018 4:11 PM (GMT -6)   
I haven't heard of hawthorne causing a herx. It's very good for the heart/cardiovascular system - and that's why I take it. But, I've never herxed on it.

Maybe just stop the hawthorne if that's the culprit...not the other herbs. Or stop them all for just a couple days...and then add back the sida and houttuynia.

You can try the hawthorn again later...but make sure you do a very low dose to start.

Sida and houttuynia isn't specially for lyme...but I believe they both have antimicrobial activities...so it might hit it somewhat.

I would suggest adding in Japanese knotweed and Cat's Claw if you want to target lyme.

I have heard that lyme cycles are about 3-4 weeks...so that could be causing a flare.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33837
   Posted 2/16/2018 4:13 PM (GMT -6)   
goshawk said...
Just so I get it right, did you just dd the Sida for the first time 2 wks ago?


Sida acuta in full doses could cause a strong herx at least in my experience and even though it was two weeks ago you could be still herxing from it.





Yes, you're right it could be from the sida - so good idea maybe to stop them all for several days...and then go back and add them back at a bit lower dose.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Woodduck12
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 156
   Posted 2/16/2018 4:39 PM (GMT -6)   
I already am doing Knotweed. I noticed really great Improvement right away with it. It seeed to good to be true. Then I added the huttyania. Knotweed was my first herb I added about a month ago. I slowly went up every week.

Woodduck12
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 156
   Posted 2/16/2018 4:41 PM (GMT -6)   
Maybe it is a her because some of these symptoms I haven't had for about a year.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33837
   Posted 2/16/2018 4:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Woodduck12 said...
I already am doing Knotweed. I noticed really great Improvement right away with it. It seeed to good to be true. Then I added the huttyania. Knotweed was my first herb I added about a month ago. I slowly went up every week.


Yes, I read your post again...don't know how I missed that you were on knotweed. LOL.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Woodduck12
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 156
   Posted 2/16/2018 6:20 PM (GMT -6)   
In his book he mentioned that some of these herbs are antifungals as well will they inhibit yeast? Wanted to know if this would be a two for one seniario.

mpost
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1527
   Posted 2/16/2018 9:46 PM (GMT -6)   
never heard of hawthorne to give herx, these are some edible berries that help your blood flow through capilaries. they lower blood pressure and make u sleepy.

if u have an old tissue infection they can ramp up killing indirectly by allowing immune cells deeper into tissues. so yeah possible.

but i'd say more likely u just hit a growth cycle. the disease cycles on its own even if u dont take anything. my symptoms are similar while on abx or off abx. the diff is if u are on abx you slowly see them dimimish in time. but the pill->reaction link is highly overrated. u have same symptoms without treatment but in time they get worse or stay at same level. with treatment they start to vanish in time

Woodduck12
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 156
   Posted 2/16/2018 9:56 PM (GMT -6)   
Mpost when you say abx does that include herbals?

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1996
   Posted 2/16/2018 10:19 PM (GMT -6)   
Woodduck12,

Hi! I read your post and wanted to offer my opinion.

First, hawthorn is very unlikely to be the cause of the symptoms you have. From what I understand it's a very benign herb.

Second, Japanese knotweed, houttynia, and sida acuta are all in Buhner's bartonella protocol, which I have been on for about 8 months now.

Knotweed is the core herb in the Lyme protocol as well. I personally have found that knotweed increases some of my symptoms while, for others, it provides relief from symptoms. Houttynia and sida acuta both are well known to be very strong herx provoking herbs for many folks. Sida acuta hits both bartonella and babesia. For me, I have found that I tend to have delayed herx reactions that seem to peak around 3 weeks after starting new herbs.

You got up to full doses and added more herbs very fast compared to many of us. After months I'm still at tiny doses of houtty and sida. I am very sensitive. I honestly think you are in a herx from doing too much too fast. You may want to cut your doses by half of what you are currently at for each one and see if the herx stops. If it doesn't, back off some more. You are right to be concerned about herxes. They can be dangerous and the inflammation doesn't help us.

I have OCD type symptoms, too. I am female and have always experienced that with PMS. I don't know if that's a "normal" PMS symptom or if it's Lyme or bartonella. I suspect it may be bartonella. One time I mentioned feeling ADD/OCD when hormones were out of whack to my gynecologist and he looked at me real funny.
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