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Psilociraptor
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Date Joined Jul 2016
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   Posted 2/17/2018 6:57 AM (GMT -6)   
Was it you I was talking to about L-forms a while back? Who had a book from the 60s? I can not remember the name or find it for the life of me. Would love it in my collection smilewinkgrin

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32617
   Posted 2/17/2018 11:52 AM (GMT -6)   
bump
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

TOOTY
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2014
Total Posts : 262
   Posted 2/17/2018 3:21 PM (GMT -6)   
Psilociraptor said...
Was it you I was talking to about L-forms a while back? Who had a book from the 60s? I can not remember the name or find it for the life of me. Would love it in my collection smilewinkgrin


Hey Psilo....! Long time no see. Yes, we had an engaging discussion on L-forms and pathology in general.

I had gotten two books on bacterial pathogenesis. Bacterial Pathogenesis - A Molecular Approach By Salyers & Whitt (2nd edition, 2002), and, the one you are referring to, Microbial Protoplasts, Spheroplasts and L-Forms, Lucien B. Guze, editor (Copyright 1967). I'm not sure how available Lucien Guze's book is, but the Bacterial Pathogenesis 2002 edition (used) is dirt cheap on Amazon. The 3rd edition (2010) of Bacterial Pathogenesis is still fairly expensive, but I think I remember you saying you purchased that one already.

How is your house coming along? And, have you had any spare time to break out the scope lately?

I've been much busier myself these days, doing part-time work and helping some friends with projects. I still get the scopes out--in fact, I looked at a friend's blood yesterday--but it's much less frequently. In my spare time have been plodding through the 2nd edition Bacterial Pathogenesis, but it's slow going with the amount of spare time I have and the sheer depth of the material in that book. Once I get through that book, I think I can apply for my Master's degrees in microbiology & immunology!

I'm not out of the woods yet, but doing much better than a couple years ago. BVT (2 years in), Rife, ABX, and herbs....

Post Edited (TOOTY) : 2/17/2018 2:48:32 PM (GMT-7)


Psilociraptor
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Date Joined Jul 2016
Total Posts : 1228
   Posted 2/18/2018 3:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey Tooty! Glad to see you responded! I do remember it being an engaging discussion and I couldn't for the life of me find the thread. A recent paper came out the other day published all over every pop-sci outlet on my facebook about penicillin and lysozyme conversion to L-forms. Claiming "unexpected" findings and filled with a lot of ":O" faces. On one hand I was glad to see mainstream interest. On the other hand i was rolling my eyes and trying to prevent myself from injuring my forehead with the palm of my hand knowing that at least 3 text sized references have been published on it in the last 50 years and the findings were anything but "unexpected". And that got me interested in acquiring this one you have. I've been getting really into collecting older medical/science texts for this reason. I just got Embers "The Pathogenic Spirochetes: strategies for evasion..." (2012). The book is like 250 pages long and covers leptospira, treponema denticola, pallidum, b.b. sl, borrelia relapsing fever, etc. It was a tad disappointing to be honest. Then I just got Stokes "Modern Clinical Syphilology" (1943). 1000 pages... just on syphilis. I mean, it's kind of amazing what ultra-reliance on molecular methods has done both good and bad. Same with Domingue's book. Even with it's age I find it far more useful than Mattman's. Though both are very good

I did actually get Bacterial Pathogenesis 3rd edition. I blazed through a big chunk. But then got to thinking I'd like to clean up some of my basics before going any further. I've read plenty on medical microbiology and Lyme disease, but my background in general microbiology was pretty weak so I've just been reading Brocks Biology of Microorganisms these days to clean up the loose ends.

I have not been on the scope much. I never did get real into it just because it's another massive energy investment to try and go about it in a self-taught manner. I throw some pond water or blood or spit on there every now and then just to enjoy the view. But there's just so much I'm looking at that I can't identify and that frustrates me. I really would like to get a more formal education on it. I don't know if you're serious about the masters degree, but that would be pretty awesome and I wish you the best! I've been in the same boat myself. Just doing warehouse work and letting my biochem degree collect dust. I was thinking about my masters, and that progressed to med school. Thinking clinical pathology would get my scope knowledge fine tuned. But I also like the idea of working with patients. So I don't know... I'm ready to take the next step, just not sure what that is. My house thing fell apart. Land consultant was a bit overly optimistic on road cost... Then he died... so... That's sort of another appeal to med school... finding myself a little country doc niche... not doing warehouse work and living paycheck to paycheck and actually being able to afford to build my farm. But you know how life is when it comes to making plans...

Glad to hear you're doing better too. Keep up the good work. I've just been on Buhner's herbs. I'd say I'm like 80%. It's helped a ton. But my neuro symptoms are stubborn as can be. Seems the knotweed just doesn't reach that deep. I get loads of die off in my joints and muscles and "blood". And that seems to stabilize my symptoms and prevent new ones from constantly developing. But the nerves don't change.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32617
   Posted 2/18/2018 3:47 PM (GMT -6)   
Just guessing - was it this microscopy thread specifically?

/www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3834079
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Psilociraptor
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2016
Total Posts : 1228
   Posted 2/18/2018 4:01 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey Girlie, thanks for the link! That's not it however. If I remember correctly it was a post where I was sharing my new (at the time) Cell Wall-Deficient Bacteria book by Gerald Domingue.

Psilociraptor
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Date Joined Jul 2016
Total Posts : 1228
   Posted 2/18/2018 6:40 PM (GMT -6)   
Also tooty do you mind me asking how much you paid for the Guez book? The prices I see are absolutely outrageous. 500 for one that's in very good condition. 250 for one that's "acceptable". I think I paid $40 for Domingues and less than 200 for mattmans and both are way less dated. I nearly spit my tea. Why on earth would these be so pricey...

TOOTY
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2014
Total Posts : 262
   Posted 2/18/2018 7:40 PM (GMT -6)   
Psilociraptor said...
Also tooty do you mind me asking how much you paid for the Guez book? The prices I see are absolutely outrageous. 500 for one that's in very good condition. 250 for one that's "acceptable". I think I paid $40 for Domingues and less than 200 for mattmans and both are way less dated. I nearly spit my tea. Why on earth would these be so pricey...


I just checked. I paid $2.63 in 2015 (plus a few dollars shipping)! I also saw the ones you just looked at. WOW!

Try this:

/www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0683037870/ref=tmm_hrd_used_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr=

TOOTY
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2014
Total Posts : 262
   Posted 2/18/2018 7:44 PM (GMT -6)   

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32617
   Posted 2/18/2018 8:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Was it this one?


/www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3753190
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

TOOTY
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2014
Total Posts : 262
   Posted 2/18/2018 9:06 PM (GMT -6)   

Psilociraptor
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2016
Total Posts : 1228
   Posted 2/18/2018 9:29 PM (GMT -6)   


Yes that was it! I thought it was my thread, but guess it was a microscopy one.

I don't get it... I did not see those books when I typed it in to amazon. It would only show me books that were hundreds of dollars. What in the world...

Psilociraptor
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2016
Total Posts : 1228
   Posted 2/18/2018 9:33 PM (GMT -6)   
Ahahaha I see now... poor guys and gals misspelling "spheroplast"...
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