Does anyone have knowledge on the link between lyme and Alzheimer's

New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> ]

Aerose91
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 574
   Posted 2/21/2018 7:58 PM (GMT -6)   
My friend's mother was just diagnosed with early Alzheimer's at 67 yrs old. Very young.

I know there's a link between spirochetes and Alzheimer's but want to learn more. At 67 she shouldn't be developing Alzheimer's, imo. I asked him if she ever had lyme and he was like "yes! How'd you guess that". I know about the APOE4 gene but not much beyond that

I would like to find out more about this correlation, if anyone knows. If lyme is causing this, is there a chance it's reversible? Are there any top notch LLMD's who deal with this? This family has money so they can put up.

Thanks for any help

Lapis_29
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 882
   Posted 2/21/2018 8:10 PM (GMT -6)   
/www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/50208/title/Do-Microbes-Trigger-Alzheimer-s-Disease-/

that is a good article right there, and yes lyme 100% can cause dementia (ie alzheimers) and its possible to reverse it with treatment.

Kris Kristofferson was diagnosed with dementia, then found out he had lyme, go treatment and is doing much better.

Aerose91
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 574
   Posted 2/21/2018 8:40 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks a lot. Are there any specific LLMD's who deal with diagnosed "Alzeimer's" patients. I think Dr Klinghardt does but I'm not certain. I'd like her to see someone quickly

astroman
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5090
   Posted 2/21/2018 10:33 PM (GMT -6)   
Tomas Grier and Alan MacDonald have devoted a good portion of their life to this and the MS connection. Might goggle these guys.
Had initial lyme symptoms late 80's, then again and with bullseye early 90's. Ended ABX for Lyme in 2015. Rebuilding / fine tuning / fixing muscles since then; member "10 Percenters Lyme Club". What an adventure this has been. Hashimotos adds to the enjoyment.

Psilociraptor
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2016
Total Posts : 1353
   Posted 2/21/2018 11:59 PM (GMT -6)   
This isn't one i've gone particularly deep into in terms of the mechanisms... But in my limited understanding, borrelia and other neurotropic bacteria cross-seed their own amyloids with human amyloids and initiate biofilm formation leading to the plaque structures. It certainly should be treatable in the sense of preventing progression. I'm optimistic that it's probably treatable in the sense of reversing it. However, if it is a biofilm disease... I'm not so optimistic about commonplace antibiotics.

Anyways I would recommend digging around Miklossy's work. She's done a lot on this connection. Here's a paper to start. You'll probably find more in the reference section https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27314530

Lapis_29
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 882
   Posted 2/22/2018 12:12 AM (GMT -6)   
Psilociraptor said...
This isn't one i've gone particularly deep into in terms of the mechanisms... But in my limited understanding, borrelia and other neurotropic bacteria cross-seed their own amyloids with human amyloids and initiate biofilm formation leading to the plaque structures. It certainly should be treatable in the sense of preventing progression. I'm optimistic that it's probably treatable in the sense of reversing it. However, if it is a biofilm disease... I'm not so optimistic about commonplace antibiotics.

Anyways I would recommend digging around Miklossy's work. She's done a lot on this connection. Here's a paper to start. You'll probably find more in the reference section https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27314530


according to miklossy, the amyloid plaque is a defense mechanism in the brain meant to defend itself against pathogenic invasion. so its a symptom NOT the cause of dementia/alzheimers. The pathogens do not secrete their own amyloid plaque.

the plaque is meant to sort of surround and isolate the invading pathogen, neutralize it. But the side effect is gumming up the brain works.

Aerose91
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 574
   Posted 2/22/2018 12:40 AM (GMT -6)   
Based on this, theoretically, if one can eradicate the lyme and break up a good portion of the amyloid plaques they should be able to stop, and largely reverse the disease process

Psilociraptor
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2016
Total Posts : 1353
   Posted 2/22/2018 9:51 AM (GMT -6)   
Lapis_29 said...
Psilociraptor said...
This isn't one i've gone particularly deep into in terms of the mechanisms... But in my limited understanding, borrelia and other neurotropic bacteria cross-seed their own amyloids with human amyloids and initiate biofilm formation leading to the plaque structures. It certainly should be treatable in the sense of preventing progression. I'm optimistic that it's probably treatable in the sense of reversing it. However, if it is a biofilm disease... I'm not so optimistic about commonplace antibiotics.

Anyways I would recommend digging around Miklossy's work. She's done a lot on this connection. Here's a paper to start. You'll probably find more in the reference section https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27314530


according to miklossy, the amyloid plaque is a defense mechanism in the brain meant to defend itself against pathogenic invasion. so its a symptom NOT the cause of dementia/alzheimers. The pathogens do not secrete their own amyloid plaque.

the plaque is meant to sort of surround and isolate the invading pathogen, neutralize it. But the side effect is gumming up the brain works.


Read the paper I linked. Or just the title tongue Bacterial AND human amyloids are found in the plaques. Amyloids are common components of bacterial biofilms and they can cross-seed with amyloids produced by other species. I realize this is apparently in conflict with the traditional view that amyloids are protective mechanisms. And I'm not really sure whether that has been resolved. But other researchers too have found that, for example, gut microbes produce amyloids that instigate amyloid "misfolding" in the brain. There is some sort of interplay between bacterial and human amyloids whether or not human amyloids are meant to be protective. Miklossys paper suggests that this interaction is involved in biofilm formation. Which is in agreement with the fact that amyloids are basic components of biofilms in general

I haven't read this one yet, but it seems like it might be helpful in this issue http://jb.asm.org/content/198/19/2579.full

Post Edited (Psilociraptor) : 2/22/2018 7:55:29 AM (GMT-7)


astroman
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5090
   Posted 2/22/2018 10:07 AM (GMT -6)   
Tomas Grier and Alan MacDonald look at donated brains, - from people in "lyme country" with a former Dx of MS, Als, ect.

Both have presentations on you -tube, and in one the conventional MDs could not handle these findings, thus walk out in the presentation !!

In a nut shell at one presentation Tom said he suspects the issues are more so from pathogen debris not the plaques. He put a lot of emphasis on some type of "hitchhiking" micro worm in the brain to. I forget the details, weather this worm was in the rest of the body or not I dont remember any mention of it there. It hitches with BB (lyme) and maybe like the brain more than other areas.
Had initial lyme symptoms late 80's, then again and with bullseye early 90's. Ended ABX for Lyme in 2015. Rebuilding / fine tuning / fixing muscles since then; member "10 Percenters Lyme Club". What an adventure this has been. Hashimotos adds to the enjoyment.

Lapis_29
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 882
   Posted 2/22/2018 10:12 AM (GMT -6)   
astroman said...
Tomas Grier and Alan MacDonald look at donated brains, - from people in "lyme country" with a former Dx of MS, Als, ect.

Both have presentations on you -tube, and in one the conventional MDs could not handle these findings, thus walk out in the presentation !!

In a nut shell at one presentation Tom said he suspects the issues are more so from pathogen debris not the plaques. He put a lot of emphasis on some type of "hitchhiking" micro worm in the brain to. I forget the details, weather this worm was in the rest of the body or not I dont remember any mention of it there. It hitches with BB (lyme) and maybe like the brain more than other areas.


first I have heard about this hitchhiking worm. Do you have any more info on that?

Lapis_29
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 882
   Posted 2/22/2018 10:19 AM (GMT -6)   
Psilociraptor said...
Lapis_29 said...
Psilociraptor said...
This isn't one i've gone particularly deep into in terms of the mechanisms... But in my limited understanding, borrelia and other neurotropic bacteria cross-seed their own amyloids with human amyloids and initiate biofilm formation leading to the plaque structures. It certainly should be treatable in the sense of preventing progression. I'm optimistic that it's probably treatable in the sense of reversing it. However, if it is a biofilm disease... I'm not so optimistic about commonplace antibiotics.

Anyways I would recommend digging around Miklossy's work. She's done a lot on this connection. Here's a paper to start. You'll probably find more in the reference section https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27314530


according to miklossy, the amyloid plaque is a defense mechanism in the brain meant to defend itself against pathogenic invasion. so its a symptom NOT the cause of dementia/alzheimers. The pathogens do not secrete their own amyloid plaque.

the plaque is meant to sort of surround and isolate the invading pathogen, neutralize it. But the side effect is gumming up the brain works.


Read the paper I linked. Or just the title tongue Bacterial AND human amyloids are found in the plaques. Amyloids are common components of bacterial biofilms and they can cross-seed with amyloids produced by other species. I realize this is apparently in conflict with the traditional view that amyloids are protective mechanisms. And I'm not really sure whether that has been resolved. But other researchers too have found that, for example, gut microbes produce amyloids that instigate amyloid "misfolding" in the brain. There is some sort of interplay between bacterial and human amyloids whether or not human amyloids are meant to be protective. Miklossys paper suggests that this interaction is involved in biofilm formation. Which is in agreement with the fact that amyloids are basic components of biofilms in general

I haven't read this one yet, but it seems like it might be helpful in this issue http://jb.asm.org/content/198/19/2579.full


huh, well then miklossy's theory has evolved recently, interesting. Last I read she theorized the amyloids were protective mechanisms secreted by the brain, but this study would indicate they are possibly a result of biofilms. Thats a new development I was unaware of, wow.

Psilociraptor
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2016
Total Posts : 1353
   Posted 2/22/2018 12:25 PM (GMT -6)   
I could be wrong, but I think this was always in sights for her. But premature promotion of the idea would be sure to draw ridicule since biofilm infections are not widely accepted as normal part of the disease process. The antimicrobial hypothesis of amyloids has been proposed by other researchers and has been the more accepted line of thinking. Which is probably why she has included it in past publications. And it may still be true in addition to her findings. There's no telling how protective host mechanisms under certain conditions may facilitate infection

astroman
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5090
   Posted 2/22/2018 12:30 PM (GMT -6)   
Lapis_29 said...
astroman said...
Tomas Grier and Alan MacDonald look at donated brains, - from people in "lyme country" with a former Dx of MS, Als, ect.

Both have presentations on you -tube, and in one the conventional MDs could not handle these findings, thus walk out in the presentation !!

In a nut shell at one presentation Tom said he suspects the issues are more so from pathogen debris not the plaques. He put a lot of emphasis on some type of "hitchhiking" micro worm in the brain to. I forget the details, weather this worm was in the rest of the body or not I dont remember any mention of it there. It hitches with BB (lyme) and maybe like the brain more than other areas.


first I have heard about this hitchhiking worm. Do you have any more info on that?


I attended one of Toms local presentations a couple years ago were he mentioned and showed this (with dye) but I dont remember the details. You can search it on you tube, Its there- his talks from 2014 on up will mention this brain worm he found, which seems to hitch along with lyme apparently. First I ever heard of it too.

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 2023
   Posted 2/22/2018 12:56 PM (GMT -6)   
Dr. Dale Bredesen is the Alzheimer guru who understands the connection and how to diagnose and treat it. His website is here. See if there's a practitioner in her area who is trained in the Bredesen Protocol.

/www.drbredesen.com/thebredesenprotocol

astroman
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5090
   Posted 2/22/2018 1:28 PM (GMT -6)   
......"reverse the cognitive decline of SCI, MCI, and early Alzheimer’s disease..":
/www.drbredesen.com/thebredesenprotocol[/quote


Looks promising. I skimmed through a little - the ApoE4 gene is of course mentioned. Didn't see lyme on the first page at all.(?)

There are prob many versions and causes of what medicine calls "Alzheimers" since its really a symptom of brain dysfunction.

pdf from link:

/docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/1a2e49_51f1e35c438e4d8c9a49fccc6e9efd18.pdf

Post Edited (astroman) : 2/22/2018 11:36:11 AM (GMT-7)


sickofbeingsick00
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2017
Total Posts : 18
   Posted 2/22/2018 6:11 PM (GMT -6)   
My mother passed away of Alzheimer's at the age of 68. I can't remember exactly when she was diagnosed, but late 50's anyway, although she was certainly have issues before then. Since my diagnosis, I am wondering if what she had was Lyme as well. She had so many issues throughout her lifetime, stomach issues, depression, anxiety, never slept, headaches, she was just not well. Did she have Lyme and pass it on to me in utero? The questions never seem to end...and where did the Lyme begin? Or will genetics play in to early onset Alzheimers for me? Scary thought...I am 45. I will read the article!

Aerose91
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 574
   Posted 2/22/2018 7:00 PM (GMT -6)   
sickofbeingsick00 said...
My mother passed away of Alzheimer's at the age of 68. I can't remember exactly when she was diagnosed, but late 50's anyway, although she was certainly have issues before then. Since my diagnosis, I am wondering if what she had was Lyme as well. She had so many issues throughout her lifetime, stomach issues, depression, anxiety, never slept, headaches, she was just not well. Did she have Lyme and pass it on to me in utero? The questions never seem to end...and where did the Lyme begin? Or will genetics play in to early onset Alzheimers for me? Scary thought...I am 45. I will read the article!


I can't buy someone developing Alzheimer's at that young of an age and it not be another cause. My father was diagnosed with dementia in his late 50's but i told him from the beginning it was BS, since he has lyme. He still doesnt believe me

Little Bear (LB)
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2015
Total Posts : 632
   Posted 2/22/2018 10:08 PM (GMT -6)   
The Seven Proactive Findings of the Dr. Paul Duray Research Fellowship Foundations is a good article. Here is the website.
/durayresearch.com/about-2/7-provocative-findings-intro/

It discusses:

"Finding Borrelia burgdorferi and miyamotoi associated with Amyloid Plaques in Alzheimer's disease brains."
"Finding Borrelia in Lewy Body Dementia."
"Nematode worms found in Alzheimer's brains."

Here is the website for PDF version:
/durayresearch.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/7-discoveries-pdf-final-july16-sansmkup.pdf
Misdiagnosed for 27 years. Below is my first thread.
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3509506

Homozygous MTHFR a1298c
Started to talk normal again May 2016
Still dealing with other symptoms

Lyme Disease is a real MTHFR!!!

Post Edited (Little Bear (LB)) : 2/22/2018 8:17:02 PM (GMT-7)


Aerose91
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 574
   Posted 2/23/2018 11:33 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks, LB

BJD55
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2017
Total Posts : 376
   Posted 2/23/2018 12:41 PM (GMT -6)   
My wife has an apparent dementia. Well know more next month after she sees the neurologist and get the mri. Our new pcp is Lyme literate and ordered a western blot thru quest. (she didn't bother with Elisa or C6 peptide) wife tested CDC positive igM for Bb. Next, pcp ordered igenex tests for Lyme wb, and all coinfections. Waiting for those results.

What's confounding to me at least, is she has no other Lyme symptoms and says she feels great. But, her behavior and memory are significantly affected, people notice this and friends and family are alarmed. Yikes! And they don't even have to live with her. Anosognosia is prominent. My poor broken wife.

Since getting the positive Lyme test results, I'm guardedly optimistic that there's at least a partial fix. She's 70 and I noticed unequivocal behavior changes 2 years ago. She's had some mild memory issues for maybe 4 years. Both parents died with dementia. She carries the apoe 3 & 4 alleles.

The mri will ultimately tell the tale as to whether there's brain shrinkage and any hope for reversal.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33893
   Posted 2/23/2018 7:23 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi bridgeovertroublewater - welcome to our community!

Do you also have lyme?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

astroman
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5090
   Posted 2/23/2018 7:43 PM (GMT -6)   
bridgeovertroublewater said...
I have Lyme friend who has an in-depth nursing background, recently read, as well as watched several informative interviews that 90% of all Ahlzeimers patients tested positive for Lyme disease!!


Ok, but for that to hold merit, 100% of Ahlzeimers patients would have to be tested for Lyme disease.

BJD55
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2017
Total Posts : 376
   Posted 2/23/2018 9:41 PM (GMT -6)   
Sure enough. I read an article on psychology today about Lyme related dementia. They cited this study saying Pure Lyme dementia exists and in one group in the study, stability or mild improvement was seen. In the other group where patients had true progressive dementias like alzheimer's, frontotemporal degeneration and lewy body, that group continued to get worse despite the abx treatment.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24762944

Little Bear (LB)
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2015
Total Posts : 632
   Posted 2/23/2018 10:59 PM (GMT -6)   
In the article I listed in my previous post, Dr. Alan MacDonald found spirochetes and hundreds of nematode eggs in the brains he was studying. It goes on to say "This may explain why dementia is progressive and accelerates with time."

The nematodes he found also contained Borrelia burgdorferi in their gut.

It also talks about a treatment of high dose of antiparasitic drugs first to kill off the nematodes and eggs. Then use antibiotics to kill off the Borrelia that were hiding inside the nematode parasites.

Antibiotics will not have an affect on the nematodes.

I personally believe that once something like Lyme infects your body, this weakens your immune system for other organisms to thrive.
Misdiagnosed for 27 years. Below is my first thread.
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3509506

Homozygous MTHFR a1298c
Started to talk normal again May 2016
Still dealing with other symptoms

Lyme Disease is a real MTHFR!!!
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
Forum Information
Currently it is Saturday, August 18, 2018 11:46 AM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 2,994,090 posts in 328,103 threads.
View Active Threads


Who's Online
This forum has 161258 registered members. Please welcome our newest member, Mavis.
266 Guest(s), 9 Registered Member(s) are currently online.  Details
Tim G, scifigal2k, Artist Mark, Michael_T, Mavis, AgentBodyLover, Jerry_Delaware, slapshot, F8