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Joe183288
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Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 65
   Posted 2/26/2018 9:39 AM (GMT -6)   
I'm at the end of completing my abx pulsing protocol with very little improvement, so I'm revisiting mold again. I had all the shoemaker tests done last june and c4a came back around 10,000 along with TGFBeta 1 around 10,000 as well. I tested these again back in December and the numbers have been cut in half. Everything else was normal, or so I thought. I was looking into my tests from june and noticed my MSH shows normal according to the lab but is much different than what shoemaker says. My MSH on the labs shows .5 with the reference range being anything less than 5.0. When I look at Shoemakers range it says between 35-81. I don't get how the lab can say anything less than 5 and shoemakers normal range is 7x-16x that. The lab makes it seem like over 5 is a bad thing. Does anyone have insight to this?

I also want to mention that light sensitivity, brain fog and the issues that come with brain fog is about 85% of my issue, with the other 15% being fatigue, aches, and dry mouth. I have zero issues with falling or staying asleep, and it looks like that is usually a big problem with low MSH.

Edit: also my HLA DR points towards Lyme, and my C3a came back in range, so because c3a is normal that may point more towards mold correct?

Post Edited (Joe183288) : 2/26/2018 8:43:05 AM (GMT-7)


WalkingbyFaith
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Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1664
   Posted 2/26/2018 10:19 AM (GMT -6)   
Joe,

I don't know what to make of that lab's normal range for MSH. I would go by Shoemaker's range and ignore the lab. Low MSH is very common. At baseline, mine was 19. Five months later it had dropped to <8. I recently had it checked again but don't have results yet.

From what I recall, C3a may be affected by Lyme in acute cases and may not be affected in cases of chronic Lyme.

It's good your TGFB1 and C4a are coming down. Did you also do ERMI tests to check for current mold exposure at home and at work? I was being exposed in both places. At baseline my TGFB1 was almost 28,000. Three months after leaving my home and office, it was normal at 1,481.

Light sensitivity and dry mouth make me think bartonella. Have you treated coinfections?

Joe183288
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 65
   Posted 2/26/2018 10:36 AM (GMT -6)   
I have not done the ERMI test. Since getting sick I've lived in two different houses and both are fairly new builds, with my current house being built just 3 years ago. I am always much worse at work but it seems like the florescent lighting causes that. I work in a huge office building and don't know of anyone else that is ill, but it may be worth getting a test done at my job. Can I just order an ERMI test online? what's the cost?

I have treated all co infections. I've been pulsing on Dr J protocol and have already done the bartonella treatment. I was exposed to a water damaged building back in college. I lived in a room for 2 1/2 years had water damage in the wall. Never was ill or had symptoms at the time though, didn't get sick until 4 years after leaving school.

k07
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Date Joined Sep 2015
Total Posts : 2500
   Posted 2/26/2018 11:23 AM (GMT -6)   
That's a VERY low msh! I'm sure you've seen this, but here's info on msh:

Alpha melanocyte stimulating hormone (MSH) has multiple anti-inflammatory and neurohormonal regulatory functions, exerting regulatory control on peripheral cytokine release, as well as on both anterior and posterior pituitary function.

In mold illness, MSH will be too low in over 95% of patients. This means increased susceptibility to mold illness, ongoing fatigue, pain, hormone abnormalities, mood swings, and much more. MSH is a hormone, called a regulatory neuropeptide, and it controls many other hormones, inflammation pathways, and basic defenses against invading microbes. Without MSH, bad things happen; chronic sleep disorders with non-restful sleep develop, and endorphin production is reduced, so chronic pain follows.
###

Also, my HLA type is Lyme (not mold). However, I have many of the shoemaker markers (adh, mmp-9, vip, tgf-beta). My house ERMI is clean. Lyme disease is considered a biotoxin illness, like mold. Shoemaker's protocol is supposed to help correct the abnormal markers. VIP is the final step and can somewhat "reboot" you. Did you have VIP tested? You may want to find a doc who has some knowledge of Shoemaker protocol. You would need to also be tested for MARCoNS. It's not a fun test. But MARCoNS can really drag down MSH.

k07
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2015
Total Posts : 2500
   Posted 2/26/2018 11:31 AM (GMT -6)   
Also, yes, order ERMI online through Mycometrics. I think the cost is $200-$300. I did the dust cloth. You can call them and they can help with any questions you may have.

/www.mycometrics.com/online.html

It sounds very suspicious that you have mold holding you back. Where do you live?

Joe183288
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 65
   Posted 2/26/2018 12:07 PM (GMT -6)   
yes I had VIP taken and this is another one that gives me a reference range <75 and mine just comes back <50 so for whatever reason it doesn't give me an exact number, so I could be less than shoemakers reference range. Should this test be giving me an exact number and not just < than something?

k07
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2015
Total Posts : 2500
   Posted 2/26/2018 2:34 PM (GMT -6)   
My value for VIP says <16.8 - Labcorp. What lab did yours? According to the Shoemaker sheet, he prefers Quest for this test. Maybe they give an absolute number?

Joe183288
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 65
   Posted 2/26/2018 3:42 PM (GMT -6)   
strange. Mine is labcorp as well and it says <5.0

k07
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2015
Total Posts : 2500
   Posted 2/26/2018 4:53 PM (GMT -6)   
50 or .5?

Joe183288
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 65
   Posted 2/27/2018 6:31 AM (GMT -6)   
the test name is MSH alpha. Any idea if that's any different than just MSH? That test came back at .5

Also noticed my MMP-9 is sorta high as well, it's at 383. Not sure if it's better to be high or low, it doesn't really say on the testing page.

Post Edited (Joe183288) : 2/27/2018 5:40:47 AM (GMT-7)


k07
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2015
Total Posts : 2500
   Posted 2/27/2018 6:54 AM (GMT -6)   
Ok, I was talking about VIP above. My MSH actually gave a number - I think I was 40. Your MSH is basically undetectable.

Joe183288
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 65
   Posted 2/27/2018 7:16 AM (GMT -6)   
oh, my VIP is <50. Yeah, I'm guessing basically undetectable is not good...I just got off the phone with my LLMD and am stopping Lyme treatment. I've done it for 13 months without any result, and now on maintenance protocol with it. I figured I could save the $200 that I'm about to pay and now focus on trying to see if mold/biotoxins are the issue..I see my dr next week that has started to look into mold illnesses and trying to figure out what I should get tested for. This is my thought, let me know what you think and if there is anything else I should add.

1. retest MSH
2. take biotoxins great plain test
3. ERMI testing?
4. Marcons testing?

I'm not trying to spend a ton of money if I can help it, so not sure if some tests would be better than others at this point? She also has mentioned looking into another test(can't remember the name) based off my 23andme test. I already took the VCS test months back and passed easily, that's why I kind of ruled out mold again....ugh I feel like I'm back at square one and it's very discouraging. thanks for all your help k07

Joe183288
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 65
   Posted 2/27/2018 8:57 AM (GMT -6)   
Also K07 I saw on another post that you had the neuroquant MRI done. How much did that end up costing and did it shed any light on your issues?
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