Muscle/Nerve Weakness; Vitamin B12;Reynauds

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jackinthebox
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2017
Total Posts : 69
   Posted 2/27/2018 10:51 AM (GMT -6)   
My only two real remaining symptoms are muscle and nerve weakness, mainly on my left side where most of my symptoms were in the first place, and freezing cold hands/mild Reynauds.

By muscle/nerve weakness, I mean that my left arm tires very easily when lifted above my head, and that it shakes when I flex my muscles and try to hold it still. Numbess and a feeling of weakness in my left arm was one of my first large symptoms 6 months ago, and it's definitely improving over time, so hopefully it will ago away in a few months time.

I was just wondering if anybody had ideas to help it along? A search brought up a) toxicity and detoxing, but seeing as how this was my first symptom and it always follows a specific pattern, I think it's still nerve damage. B) adding magnesium/potassium. I supplement with these a couple times a week, haven't noticed a difference or if any improvement is just natural healing. Any thoughts?

I went to the gym and was able to do some mild weightlifting and exercising (nothing like I used to) and it didn't really affect me at low weights, but my left arm didn't have the stamina for long.

Second, does anybody have issues with Vitamin B12? I was taking it to see if it would help with nerve healing, but the last time I took it, I felt terrible for a few days. BUT, I don't know if it was a relapse of symptoms that quickly healed, or caused by the B12. I only took it a couple times but I wasn't keeping track of when/if it coincided. So I've been hesitating to take it.

Third, my mild case of Reynauds; I don't know if this is thyroid-related or autoimmune or nerve damage. The only solutions I can find with this are hot showers and lots of exercise to get the blood flowing. It's more of a nuisance than anything but my knuckles and fingers are starting to turn purple and wrinkly all the time.

astroman
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5081
   Posted 2/27/2018 11:56 AM (GMT -6)   
Nerves can get stuck to atrophied muscle too.

Nerve/arm muscle- very deep aggressive massage on/if there are triggerpoint / lumpy areas, followed by DMSO over Arnica Montana gel. 2x a day. Can be done before and after workout for greater effect and better workout.

I learned self Gua-Sha (you-tube it) deep massage. I do this on my arms using bathroom counter top edge. All this worked for me when nothing else did.

"Reynauds; I don't know if this is thyroid-related or autoimmune"

- that is the case with many no lyme people too. I shake out my fingers/hands/arms as warm up to snow shoveling or any outside activity when real cold.

There are many forms of b12- depends on your genes.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33798
   Posted 2/27/2018 1:16 PM (GMT -6)   
I have something similar with my left arm. And it was my very first symptom area as well...and my worst one.

I am still rehabbing it. I have the wrinkly skin on my fingers still. but, my right hand is good now...so I'm hopeful the left side will get better, too.

When I do certain weight bearing exercises - my left arm shakes...it's still weak. But, I continue to rehab it. I am guided by a Physiotherapist...who has given me specify exercises to do - therabands are part of it.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

acarined
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 230
   Posted 2/27/2018 6:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Cat's claw helped me with cold hands and feet, and overall body temperature.

dacarte3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 1903
   Posted 2/27/2018 6:41 PM (GMT -6)   
When I use to have these symptoms, I tried to figure out what about lyme causes it so I can treat this symptom(s).

Like most things with lyme it can be multiple reasons and we just have to try each one out and cross our fingers that it helps/works.

For me I came across Acethycholine (ACE). I learned how vital this compound is for muscle and nerve health. How vital it is for the proper and healthy communication between nerves (in the muscles more specifically) and the brain/CNS and how important that is for muscle health and to avoid atrophy.

It's this lack of ACE and all that it does that hampers muscle contraction and communication. Basically muscles can't rebuild daily if the building blocks of nerve to brain communication is lacking.

I then learned that it has been scientifically proven (keyword is proven) that lyme creates a neuro toxin that hampers healthy ACE production.

With all that said, I went with this possibility and treated this and crossed my fingers. Now after 4-5 months, I'm free from these particular symptoms (*knock on wood*).

I'm not saying with 100% certainty that for you that this is the cause, as I mentioned before it could be multiple reasons, but if you want to "try" something and "cross your fingers", then this could help you as well.

The protocol is:

1. Alpha GPC Choline - which is simply supplementing choline (which then makes Acethycholine)
2. Huperzine A (Chinese club moss) - which aids in inhibiting the neuro toxin from breaking down ACE
3. EGCG - which helps Huperzine A work more effectively
4. Fish oil - which helps Huperzine A work more effectively (as well as many other health benefits).

There's a very thorough thread on this forum where I and another lymie (Lapis) fully researched this if you want to go through it.

God speed.
Lyme (Igenex) - Positive IFA and WB bands 23, 31, 41
Ehrlichia (Igenex)
Mycoplasma (Labcorp) - Score: 595

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016; 7/2017-9/2017
Buhner Protocol for Borrelia, Babesia, Bartonella and Mycoplasma (treating everything to be on the safe side): May 2016 - Dec. 2016; 8/2017 - Present

Garion
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2018
Total Posts : 65
   Posted 2/27/2018 8:43 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Decarte3

Question about you and your protocol.

How long did you have weakness? When did it start and how did it progress? I already read all three threads about your protocol and i'm so happy you had success. I was wondering, was your weakness consistent before the protocol and was it widespread?

I'm going to start general lyme treatment soon, still waiting to see the second LLMD, i wasn't too convinced with the protocol suggested by my doctor,who is somewhat lyme literate. I was wondering, do you think i can try the protocol you suggest even before i start my lyme protocol? Do you think it could help with twitching and weakness? Those are my two worst symptoms by far, and i feel like i am getting weaker by the day.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33798
   Posted 2/27/2018 9:20 PM (GMT -6)   
Garion - I see that Dacarte's email address is enabled.

Maybe send him an email...and put in the subject line: Garion from Healing well forum. (or something like that - so he doesn't think it's spam)
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

astroman
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5081
   Posted 2/28/2018 12:14 AM (GMT -6)   
Choline and Acetyl CoA are part of the Krebs energy cycle. Anything missing from this and the result is low ATP (mitochondrial issues). Choline levels can be tested, but buying the supplement is obviously most affordable.

Side note: Healthy levels of Magnesium and Iron are both needed to make Krebs efficient. Lymies can be low in Mag. Mag glycinate, malate or citrate are suggested for this reason.

Interesting note: Dr Horowitz has also noted high Pyruvic (pyruvate) and low Succinic acid in this same Krebs cycle with lymies. I tested these before ABX and results were in line with his findings. After Lyme treatment,I retested and they corrected.

Candida can also alter part of the Krebs cycle creating low Succinic acid, thus, low ATP > muscle "shakyness".

If you had muscle probs for a long time and are they are "stuck" in unhealthy muscle memory, all the hands on muscle work I've done might be needed. It would be a good idea to try making the Krebs cycle more efficient first though.

bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4893
   Posted 2/28/2018 5:49 AM (GMT -6)   
bee venom cleared my Renauds and livedo reticulis

jackinthebox
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2017
Total Posts : 69
   Posted 3/1/2018 10:43 AM (GMT -6)   
astroman said...
Nerves can get stuck to atrophied muscle too.

Nerve/arm muscle- very deep aggressive massage on/if there are triggerpoint / lumpy areas, followed by DMSO over Arnica Montana gel. 2x a day. Can be done before and after workout for greater effect and better workout.

I learned self Gua-Sha (you-tube it) deep massage. I do this on my arms using bathroom counter top edge. All this worked for me when nothing else did.

"Reynauds; I don't know if this is thyroid-related or autoimmune"

- that is the case with many no lyme people too. I shake out my fingers/hands/arms as warm up to snow shoveling or any outside activity when real cold.

There are many forms of b12- depends on your genes.


Thanks for all the comments folks! I see this is a common topic.

Astroman, what do you mean by "nerves can get stuck to atrophied muscle? I went back to the gym yesterday and my arm has felt less shaky and weak than the time before. I'm going to research DMSO and massages.

astroman
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5081
   Posted 3/1/2018 11:18 AM (GMT -6)   
Regardless of cause, if muscle is atrophied for a great duration, a bio-chemistry change can take place, its starved of nutrients, which changes its physical properties as well.

Nerves that once would glide through healthy muscle can actually stick to "ill" muscles in movement. This is why "nerve glide" exercises exist.

DMSO helps break down fibrin supposedly. I've found DMSO does help loosen things up, when used in combination with various massage techniques (AKA golf ball) and weight training. Its a MAJOR anti-inflammatory too. I have many sports impact injuries and muscle scar tissue issues from the past that did not heal properly with lyme at the same time. This is helping.

Since Choline and its precursors listed help brain - muscle connection, this should help heal too, along with magnessium. More so if your low with it possibly from lyme continuation or even low in specific levels infuenced by your methalation...

Post Edited (astroman) : 3/1/2018 10:05:25 AM (GMT-7)


jackinthebox
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2017
Total Posts : 69
   Posted 3/7/2018 11:56 AM (GMT -6)   
dacarte3 said...
When I use to have these symptoms, I tried to figure out what about lyme causes it so I can treat this symptom(s).

Like most things with lyme it can be multiple reasons and we just have to try each one out and cross our fingers that it helps/works.

For me I came across Acethycholine (ACE). I learned how vital this compound is for muscle and nerve health. How vital it is for the proper and healthy communication between nerves (in the muscles more specifically) and the brain/CNS and how important that is for muscle health and to avoid atrophy.

It's this lack of ACE and all that it does that hampers muscle contraction and communication. Basically muscles can't rebuild daily if the building blocks of nerve to brain communication is lacking.

I then learned that it has been scientifically proven (keyword is proven) that lyme creates a neuro toxin that hampers healthy ACE production.

With all that said, I went with this possibility and treated this and crossed my fingers. Now after 4-5 months, I'm free from these particular symptoms (*knock on wood*).

I'm not saying with 100% certainty that for you that this is the cause, as I mentioned before it could be multiple reasons, but if you want to "try" something and "cross your fingers", then this could help you as well.

The protocol is:

1. Alpha GPC Choline - which is simply supplementing choline (which then makes Acethycholine)
2. Huperzine A (Chinese club moss) - which aids in inhibiting the neuro toxin from breaking down ACE
3. EGCG - which helps Huperzine A work more effectively
4. Fish oil - which helps Huperzine A work more effectively (as well as many other health benefits).

There's a very thorough thread on this forum where I and another lymie (Lapis) fully researched this if you want to go through it.

God speed.


DaCarte,

I'm interested in this; thanks for sharing. I seem to remember the thread you mention a while back.

I feel like I saw some bad side effects of Huperzine A and Acetylcholine when researching online. What's your opinion of those?

Astroman - my arms get really shaky after weightlifting now, but other than that my muscle weakness has felt pretty good. Bothers me less. Biggest thing bothering me has a been a resurgence of Reynauds in the last few days - I'm hoping it's just a natural flare-up and will go away, and not related to the copious amounts of wine (copious, NOT excessive :tonguesmile I've had in the past week...
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