Just a thought

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Spanish
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 146
   Posted 3/8/2018 2:44 PM (GMT -6)   
The more I learn about this disease the more it amazes me that so many people are failed by the medical system.

I was sent home from the doctors after finding a tick attached and a rash because "lyme doesnt exist here"

This got me thinking, even if the docs had treated me by following the guidelines of a 6 week course of doxy how can this possibly be enough? when we know lyme rarely travels alone these days and we need different treatments to treat the other coinfections.

Yes this may get rid of the lyme but wouldnt the coinfections still be present? Or am I missing something?

If this is the case, even with early treatment the current guidelines are not much use.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33968
   Posted 3/8/2018 2:55 PM (GMT -6)   
When caught right away...it's treat until sign/symptom free plus 4 weeks with a minimum treatment of 6 weeks.

I know several people who have caught early - either no symptoms...or just a rash and treated for 4-6 weeks and are fine today...just one antibiotic.

I'm not sure why the coinfections don't 'need' to be treated when it's early. Maybe the immune suppression hasn't happened that quickly...and the co's aren't a factor...ie maybe our immune system along with the one antibiotic is enough.

The people I know who treated right away...they have been well for a while. (years)
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33968
   Posted 3/8/2018 2:56 PM (GMT -6)   
The guidelines state to treat until sign/symptom free plus 4 weeks with a minimum of 6 weeks.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 2047
   Posted 3/8/2018 3:01 PM (GMT -6)   
Spanish said...
The more I learn about this disease the more it amazes me that so many people are failed by the medical system.

I was sent home from the doctors after finding a tick attached and a rash because "lyme doesnt exist here"

This got me thinking, even if the docs had treated me by following the guidelines of a 6 week course of doxy how can this possibly be enough? when we know lyme rarely travels alone these days and we need different treatments to treat the other coinfections.

Yes this may get rid of the lyme but wouldnt the coinfections still be present? Or am I missing something?

If this is the case, even with early treatment the current guidelines are not much use.


I don't think you're missing anything. My impression from things I've read on this forum is that even people who start treatment right away with LLMD's don't necessarily get well faster or easier or have milder symptoms. Add to that the fact that all LLMD's, including the top leading ones, don't all use the same protocols or believe the same premises. It seems like it's all a pretty bad mess regardless.

Spanish
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 146
   Posted 3/8/2018 3:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Ahh so you think the doxy will also treat the coinfections if caught early?

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33968
   Posted 3/8/2018 3:10 PM (GMT -6)   
Spanish said...
Ahh so you think the doxy will also treat the coinfections if caught early?


I'm not sure - it maybe that our immune system isn't suppressed and is taking care of those.

Apparently when we're healthy and get exposed to Bartonella - it is usually self-limiting - we get rid of it with our immune system.


I just know that the people I've talked to - who caught it that early...are still fine today.

But, let it go for even a few months...and it becomes more difficult.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Runninheid
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 52
   Posted 3/8/2018 3:40 PM (GMT -6)   
I was told by my doctor that Lyme is like a prescursor to coinfections. Lyme needs time to really set in before the coinfections can begin their work.

Because of this, I would assume that if you treat for Lyme early and effectively, any dormant coinfections just get swept away by the body's natural detox process, along with all the "expired" Lyme.
DX Borrelia, Babesia, Bartonella and Ehrlichia June 2017.
Symptoms since at least 2007.
Started treatment June 2017
-Artemisinin, A BART, A BAB, Biaxin, Chlorella, Liposomal Glutathione, Magnesium, Omnicef, Prothrivers Wellbrain, Tindazole, Tranquility, Uplift, Fish Oil, B Vitamins, Vitamin D, gluten free, sugar free, dairy free, lemon water, detox tea, coffee enemas.
30%-60% Healed

1000Daisies
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2016
Total Posts : 2474
   Posted 3/8/2018 4:23 PM (GMT -6)   
I have had the same exact thoughts of you, too!

But I am beginning to think that many of these other "coinfections" are opportunistic. So, if lyme is knocked back with a single abx, perhaps these coinfections just don't have the power to rise in the body yet.

And I really personally don't even like to use the word "coinfection" (even though I do frequently). In my opinion, some of these coinfections are worse than lyme itself but aren't given the attention that lyme has!
Kid#1: Extremely sick for several years, very difficult to treat, but doing great now!
Kid#2: Still sick now despite being treated for years but doing better (not well yet).
Kid#3: Generally good but relapsing off/on.
Me: Adv Labs positive 2016 (suspected I passed to my kids)-not as sick as others, mostly battling fatigue and yeast issues (heart/kidney issues resolved)
Treating with herbals now.

Spanish
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 146
   Posted 3/8/2018 4:35 PM (GMT -6)   
It seems theres no definitive answer then? As to if these other infections are wiped by immune system without the presence of lyme or as you say dont have the power to rise in the body on their own,

If the latter is true then surely this is a dangerous situation and any knock to the immune system not necessarily lyme could bring them forward meaning It would make sense that early treatment should tackle all possible coinfections as well as lyme as a precaution.

1000Daisies
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2016
Total Posts : 2474
   Posted 3/8/2018 4:38 PM (GMT -6)   
I have tried to proactively treat one of my kids, and despite being on abx for years, he went from a fully functioning kid to a completely non-functioning kid who couldn't attend school regular for years. So, at least for us, proactively treating doesn't appear to be so straight forward either, which I have yet to fully understand. sad
Kid#1: Extremely sick for several years, very difficult to treat, but doing great now!
Kid#2: Still sick now despite being treated for years but doing better (not well yet).
Kid#3: Generally good but relapsing off/on.
Me: Adv Labs positive 2016 (suspected I passed to my kids)-not as sick as others, mostly battling fatigue and yeast issues (heart/kidney issues resolved)
Treating with herbals now.

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 2047
   Posted 3/8/2018 5:08 PM (GMT -6)   
1000Daisies said...
I have tried to proactively treat one of my kids, and despite being on abx for years, he went from a fully functioning kid to a completely non-functioning kid who couldn't attend school regular for years. So, at least for us, proactively treating doesn't appear to be so straight forward either, which I have yet to fully understand. sad


1000Daisies,

NOW I understand why you have hesitations in what to do regarding your own symptoms. I either didn't know or didn't remember that scenario happened with one child. Wow! That is scary.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33968
   Posted 3/8/2018 5:22 PM (GMT -6)   
Spanish said...
It seems theres no definitive answer then? As to if these other infections are wiped by immune system without the presence of lyme or as you say dont have the power to rise in the body on their own,

If the latter is true then surely this is a dangerous situation and any knock to the immune system not necessarily lyme could bring them forward meaning It would make sense that early treatment should tackle all possible coinfections as well as lyme as a precaution.


If you're talking about acute infection - not one that is longstanding and disseminated then the treatment is to treat with an antibiotic - eg. Doxy for the required time - which is symptom free plus 4 weeks with minimum being 6 weeks.
But once it's been left untreated and disseminated (symptoms ) then treatment becomes more complicated.

That's why we urge people not to "wait and see" if they get a tick bit with or without the rash.
It's not worth the risk when you can take 4 weeks of abx.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi
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