Bartonella flare length

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tonyaraven
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Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 398
   Posted 3/15/2018 12:14 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi everyone, I'm on almost 2 weeks of a very bad neurological flare. We never really treated Bart ( never tested positive for it) but have treated babesia for many, many months. If this is bart would that be normal for it to pop out after months of treating babesia? From what a lot of you have described it sounds like it usually flares when starting babesia treatment. How long have your flares lasted? If I start rifampin will things get a lot worse?

Woodduck12
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 156
   Posted 3/15/2018 12:34 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm wondering the same thing as well. Does Lyme create more intrusive thoughts or Bart?

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33909
   Posted 3/15/2018 12:47 PM (GMT -6)   
It could be Bart coming to the forefront....or it could be babesia symptoms that you thought were bart.

I'm realizing now that there are more symptom overlap than I first thought a few years ago.

It makes sense now that Dr. J. treats all three of the B's.

I think I'd be further ahead (over 3 years treating now) - if I had been treated for all the B's in a timely manner.

No point in staying on a lyme only protocol for a year...sheesh!!!
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

tonyaraven
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 398
   Posted 3/15/2018 1:01 PM (GMT -6)   
I know everyone is different but how long do flares last? I've been off all antibiotics and herbs for 2 weeks now hoping it was a herx but no improvement! It's so startling to when suddenly out of no where I feel like I'm attacked with pins and needles in hands, feet and face. I try not to say things like 'why me' ...but WHY US??? Please let us all get well!

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 2037
   Posted 3/15/2018 3:27 PM (GMT -6)   
tonyaraven said...
I know everyone is different but how long do flares last? I've been off all antibiotics and herbs for 2 weeks now hoping it was a herx but no improvement! It's so startling to when suddenly out of no where I feel like I'm attacked with pins and needles in hands, feet and face. I try not to say things like 'why me' ...but WHY US??? Please let us all get well!


If you stopped all abx and herbs 2 weeks ago and you're still in a flare and you haven't treated bartonella yet, then it seems quite logical that this is bartonella coming out.

I have no experience with Rifampin, so I can't say if it would cause a worse herx than what you're already in. You could talk to your doctor about Rifampin and when to start it. You could try some bart herbs now and see how they affect you. If it's bart coming out, then the herbs might improve your symptoms. If you're not on knotweed, definitely get that. It should be core for Lyme and bart. IHA Formula (isatis/houttuynia/alchornia) or houttuynia alone and/or sida acuta are for treating bart.

I have used all 3 and personally got the most symptom improvement with the IHA formula.

NicHostetler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 647
   Posted 3/15/2018 3:35 PM (GMT -6)   
I was about two months into babesia treatment (after a year of lyme only) and bart syptoms came for the very first time for me. Terrible foot pain, mood swings, stomach pain, nausea, twitching and tingling.

I tested through DNA Connexions and my test came back negative for all coinfections except Bartonella.

The flairs lasted at least 2-3 weeks for me, but even now I still feel awful.

I am assuming I will be starting Rifampin now depending on what my LLMD says when we talk in a few minutes.

tonyaraven
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 398
   Posted 3/15/2018 4:11 PM (GMT -6)   
Did you all test positive for Bart? I didn't, 2 different tests that came back negative. I had pins and needles and muscle twitching when symptoms first began in 2015, they were concerned about ms and did lots of tests. The symptoms went away and only returned very mild on occasion but these pins and needles are so intense at times! All of a sudden my hands and feet and sometimes face will be hit hard...it's creepy! Same with episodes of panic, extra blurry vision, and head/neck/back pain...hits out of no where! I did start BLT about 6 weeks ago but only worked up to 12 drops once a day so perhaps that isn't enough to do much.

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 2037
   Posted 3/15/2018 4:50 PM (GMT -6)   
I did NOT test positive for bartonella with DNA Connexions or Labcorp. However, I have had telltale signs since childhood - streaks on my abdomen, unexplained stretch marks on my thighs, bone pain, and sore feet. Thankfully those are some symptoms pretty specific for bart that don't cross over with the others. If someone offered to pay for me to be tested with Galaxy, I'd do it, but I see no reason for me to spend the money.

tonyaraven
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 398
   Posted 3/15/2018 6:22 PM (GMT -6)   
are pins and needles a bart symptom?

Inspiredby3
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts : 366
   Posted 3/15/2018 6:30 PM (GMT -6)   
I tested positive for Bartonella but 2.5 years after treating Lyme. So it didn’t come up on tests right away. My BART and Babesia herxes are pretty specific and recognizable for me now. With Bart, there is always increased anxiety and possible panic attacks. Might also have increased foot pain, burning/tingling and twitching. But anxiety is no. 1 symptoms.

With Babesia, no.1 herx symptom is overwhelming fatigue. I could take 3 naps a day. Can also have worsening of air hunger and increased pain.

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 2037
   Posted 3/15/2018 7:55 PM (GMT -6)   
tonyaraven said...
are pins and needles a bart symptom?


I've had that but not sure what causes it. Do you have any other new symptoms or any that are known to be bart?

tonyaraven
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 398
   Posted 3/15/2018 11:30 PM (GMT -6)   
Anxiety and panic as well as intense headaches, blurry vision, dizziness or light hardness and shakiness but I don't know if those are really Bart or babesia or could be either!

NicHostetler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 647
   Posted 3/16/2018 10:41 AM (GMT -6)   
I started Rifampin last night and I have all these symptoms.. sounds like a bartonella flair to me.

Babesia felt more like extreme weakness and really "out of it" feeling.
Very sick starting around 07/2016
Started treatment 03/2017
Bixain & Cefdinir - 3 months - plateaued
Then Biaxin & Minocycline - 3 months - did not improve
Tinidazole - 500MG 2x a day - 2 weeks
Now taking:
Mepron 5mL 2x a day
Zithromax
Nystatin
Cats Claw - 30 drops 2x a day
Gou Teng - 30 drops 2x a day
CSA - 40 drops 2x a day
Japanese Knotweed - 40 drops 2x a day

tonyaraven
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 398
   Posted 3/16/2018 1:36 PM (GMT -6)   
It seemed like things were calming down a bit but today everything is so intense! My anxiety/panic is so very bad. I don't know what to, it's so, so scary!

sandyfeet
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 386
   Posted 3/17/2018 7:54 AM (GMT -6)   
I've had what might be described as pins and needles pain which I've been assuming is bart for now - I tend to describe it as the burning tingling sensation that you get on exposed skin in the winter before frostnip. It usually covers a large muscle area for me (hands/forearms, thighs, feet). I'm not sure if it's bart or if it's the same as what you're describing but it seems to last for several weeks at a time for me and when other symptoms are low.
Bulls eye rash August 2013
Started treating with Buhner herbs July 2017
Treating Borellia, Babesia and Bartonella as of November 2017

tonyaraven
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 398
   Posted 3/17/2018 12:47 PM (GMT -6)   
I keep having all these weird nervy pain traveling throughout my body, especially strange things in my neck and head that is accompanied by severe anxiety! I so badly need a break!

Aerose91
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 579
   Posted 3/17/2018 1:14 PM (GMT -6)   
Woodduck12 said...
I'm wondering the same thing as well. Does Lyme create more intrusive thoughts or Bart?


God, the intrusive thoughts, I've had this so bad. Im also interested to know if this is specific to one infection particularly

insomniaaa
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2017
Total Posts : 173
   Posted 3/17/2018 5:39 PM (GMT -6)   
The pins and needles feeling could indicate a lack of oxygen in the tissue due to a malfunctioning blood circulation.
As we all know these pathogens like to mess with the blood flow to prevent the immune system from reaching them.

Post Edited (insomniaaa) : 3/17/2018 4:42:41 PM (GMT-6)


Lovemy3
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 26
   Posted 3/17/2018 7:11 PM (GMT -6)   
Aerose91 said...
Woodduck12 said...
I'm wondering the same thing as well. Does Lyme create more intrusive thoughts or Bart?


God, the intrusive thoughts, I've had this so bad. Im also interested to know if this is specific to one infection particularly



This has been my biggest struggle!! It’s been my main symptom, every time I get head pressure these intrusive thoughts take over. Anxiety has been my main issue. I had a massive panic attack as my first symptom which lead to a crazy 2 weeks where my body went haywire, hot flushes, insomnia, nausea, weight loss. Dr said it was anxiety and put me on antidepressant. Had to fight with him to get him to test me. He condescendingly tested and just randomly checked the Lyme box on the form. Came back IgM pos 41, 23 (or 39, I can’t think right now). He still told me my symptoms were from anxiety not Lyme.

He put me on 2 weeks doxy. I actually had to tell him I think I should get treated for a month. Thankfully I found a LLMD within that time. I’ve been on Doxy, Clindamycin, Zithromax, Flagyl, Cefdinir, Ceftin, Augmentin (3 days bc my head felt like it would explode!). All this from Oct 2017 to now.
Just started Ceftin last week and my head pressure is getting worse.

I tested neg for Babs but just did LP to test for Bart, Lyme and MS. I’m struggling so bad with intrusive thoughts and it scares me to my core bc I hv young kids and this has never been me. I’ve never had psych issues and I feel like I’m trapped in my own mind.

Sorry I don’t mean to ramble on it’s just that I’ve been scrolling on this site and never saw anyone else say anything about intrusive thoughts. Some days I cry from feeling so frustrated and scared.
I’m on buspar for anxiety but it does nothing for these dark thoughts.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33909
   Posted 3/17/2018 8:08 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Lovemy3

Welcome to our community!


How long have you had symptoms?

Did you do a lumbar puncture to test for Lyme and Bart? Sorry to hear that as it's not a good test.


Your WB shows you do have Lyme. Good to see you have a LLMD to treat you.

Have you got a good detox regimen going ? This can help flush out the toxins and reduce inflammation.

Particularly for the CNS, you can try Nutramedix Pinella or Jernigan's Neuro-Anti-tox II CNS/PNS.

They should be available on Amazon for purchase .
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Lovemy3
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 26
   Posted 3/17/2018 8:40 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie said...
Hi Lovemy3

Welcome to our community!


How long have you had symptoms?

Did you do a lumbar puncture to test for Lyme and Bart? Sorry to hear that as it's not a good test.


Your WB shows you do have Lyme. Good to see you have a LLMD to treat you.

Have you got a good detox regimen going ? This can help flush out the toxins and reduce inflammation.

Particularly for the CNS, you can try Nutramedix Pinella or Jernigan's Neuro-Anti-tox II CNS/PNS.

They should be available on Amazon for purchase .




Hi Girlie!
Thanks so much for responding. My symptoms started sept 2017. Driving and started feeling like I was having a heart attack. No heart issue found at ER, but heart kept racing, hot flushes, startling while asleep, insomnia, nausea, no appetite, head foggy, couldn’t concentrate.

Yes I did the LP to test for neuro Lyme and Bart. Neurologist also checking other things MS etc. I read that after the fact sad I’m just hoping for definitive answers. I hate this, just seems like it’s no end point.

I don’t have a detox regimen. I bought some activated charcoal but haven’t started it yet. I’ll get one of the ones you suggested.

Sometimes it feels like my brain is on fire and the pressure is crazy. I don’t want to complain bc I don’t hv joint pain, severe fatigue or other things I read people suffering with. But I’m struggling with the psych symptoms esp when my head is burning or feeling pressure. I’ve never had any type of anxiety before this and I don’t feel depressed which makes it even crazier to deal with when the intrusive thoughts start to get overwhelming. I feel like I’m losing my mind and myself.

I’m fighting but scared that I’ll never be myself again. I was a normal healthy 35yo then my life just went off the rails. I just don’t understand how this disease is so hard to get rid of or know when to stop meds. I’ve lost so much weight and can’t seem to stop losing weight.

I would love to go to Dr J (I have a family friend that went to him and she’s been better for a few years just minor anxiety) but I can’t afford to pay out of pocket, I’m seriously thinking abt it though. I don’t know if I need IV abx. Is it normal to hv neuro/psych symptoms as your first symptoms?

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33909
   Posted 3/17/2018 8:52 PM (GMT -6)   
Lovemy3 said...
Girlie said...
Hi Lovemy3

Welcome to our community!


How long have you had symptoms?

Did you do a lumbar puncture to test for Lyme and Bart? Sorry to hear that as it's not a good test.


Your WB shows you do have Lyme. Good to see you have a LLMD to treat you.

Have you got a good detox regimen going ? This can help flush out the toxins and reduce inflammation.

Particularly for the CNS, you can try Nutramedix Pinella or Jernigan's Neuro-Anti-tox II CNS/PNS.

They should be available on Amazon for purchase .




Hi Girlie!
Thanks so much for responding. My symptoms started sept 2017. Driving and started feeling like I was having a heart attack. No heart issue found at ER, but heart kept racing, hot flushes, startling while asleep, insomnia, nausea, no appetite, head foggy, couldn’t concentrate.

Yes I did the LP to test for neuro Lyme and Bart. Neurologist also checking other things MS etc. I read that after the fact sad I’m just hoping for definitive answers. I hate this, just seems like it’s no end point.

I don’t have a detox regimen. I bought some activated charcoal but haven’t started it yet. I’ll get one of the ones you suggested.

Sometimes it feels like my brain is on fire and the pressure is crazy. I don’t want to complain bc I don’t hv joint pain, severe fatigue or other things I read people suffering with. But I’m struggling with the psych symptoms esp when my head is burning or feeling pressure. I’ve never had any type of anxiety before this and I don’t feel depressed which makes it even crazier to deal with when the intrusive thoughts start to get overwhelming. I feel like I’m losing my mind and myself.

I’m fighting but scared that I’ll never be myself again. I was a normal healthy 35yo then my life just went off the rails. I just don’t understand how this disease is so hard to get rid of or know when to stop meds. I’ve lost so much weight and can’t seem to stop losing weight.

I would love to go to Dr J (I have a family friend that went to him and she’s been better for a few years just minor anxiety) but I can’t afford to pay out of pocket, I’m seriously thinking abt it though. I don’t know if I need IV abx. Is it normal to hv neuro/psych symptoms as your first symptoms?


Are you talking about the Dr J in Kansas or the one in Wasington,DC?

I recently went to the clinic in Washington.

Make sure you tske the charcoal a couple hours (on either side) away from any meds, supplements, food..as it will bind to anything in your GI tract and remove it.

My fave detox is warm (not hot) Epsom salt baths. I also add in some lavender and marjoram EO's.
I also dry brush my skin prior to the bath..it removes dead skin and opens the pores allowing for better detoxing.



You should be taking probiotics everyday, drinking lots of water. (And at least one full glass with the charcoal


Some people find taking Alka Seltzer gold helps with toxin removal.

Eating a clean diet is important, too.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Lovemy3
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 26
   Posted 3/17/2018 9:10 PM (GMT -6)   
Dr J in DC. I’m thinking I may end up going to him bc I feel like my current Dr is doing the best she can but she’s already said she can’t prescribe IV abx and we’ve been trying diff oral abx since October.

I saw another post mentioning the alka seltzer so I’ll pick that up as well and try the baths. I need these toxins out of my brain.

I’ve been scouring the internet for new research, treatment protocol any and all info—I know you can relate lol

tonyaraven
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 398
   Posted 3/17/2018 9:24 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Lovemy3, I can so relate to what you are going through. I have 3 children and there are times that I just get so scared that there mother is going crazy and will not be able to get through this. It's a very cruel disease, and the fact that most doctors just try to pass it off as general anxiety makes me so angry! I hope we both get a break! Hang in there!

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33909
   Posted 3/17/2018 9:57 PM (GMT -6)   
Lovemy3 said...
Dr J in DC. I’m thinking I may end up going to him bc I feel like my current Dr is doing the best she can but she’s already said she can’t prescribe IV abx and we’ve been trying diff oral abx since October.

I saw another post mentioning the alka seltzer so I’ll pick that up as well and try the baths. I need these toxins out of my brain.

I’ve been scouring the internet for new research, treatment protocol any and all info—I know you can relate lol


I don't know how far you have to travel if you do end up going to Dr J.

Did you know that if you're travelling a long distance there you can do some appts via phone call?
And the appts aren't monthly like many/most LLMD's.

I found a slideshow Dr J had on the Internet - he had gone to Europe for a teaching seminar and his protocol framework was all laid out,
The link no longer works, unfortunately.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi
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