Anyone pulsing abx?

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OriolCarol
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   Posted 3/21/2018 5:04 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi.

I'm currently in the same protocol, mino and rif, but i don't think it's working... only have a big improvement whe i start and now i declined again...

My llmd propose me the next protocol.

Zithromax 500 mg from monday to sunday, and bactrim one day on and off, and i've biopsied a skin and they have found me borrelia afzelii... so i have a lot of neurological symptoms and they don't know if it's lyme or bartonella... i had a wake apnea for two minutes and amaurosis of 20 minutes... so they want to start ceftriaxone again four days per week at 4gr.

OriolCarol
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   Posted 3/21/2018 5:11 AM (GMT -6)   
So the protocol would be

Monday: zithromax 500mg, bactrim 1 pill, ceftriaxone 4gr
Tuesday: zithromax 500mg, ceftriaxone 4gr
Wednesday: zithromax 500mg, bactrim 1 pill, ceftriaxone 4gr
Thursday: zithromax 500mg, ceftriaxone 4gr
Friday: zithromax 500mg, bactrim 1 pill.
Saturday: zithromax 500mg
Sunday: zithromax 500mg, bactrim 1 pill

At this he add me Japanse knotweed, hawtorne tincture, im gluthatione, and ursodiol to prevent biliary calculus.

Post Edited (OriolCarol) : 3/21/2018 6:25:36 AM (GMT-6)


OriolCarol
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   Posted 3/21/2018 6:20 AM (GMT -6)   
I don't know why he want to pulse the abx, mayb because i could die from abx toxicity?

tickbite666
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Total Posts : 1604
   Posted 3/21/2018 7:23 AM (GMT -6)   
Pulsing abx is becoming more common practice.

During my IV Rocephin days I started IV once every day, then changed to twice a day 4 days ON and 3 days OFF. Zith, Bactrim and Mepron was twice a day no days OFF. TindaMax was once a day for two consecutive days and 5 days OFF.

Two years ago I was pulsing Cipro and Bactrim twice a day for 2 weeks ON and 2 weeks OFF. Then last year switched to Tetra and Liposomal Oil of Oregano twice a day, with Diflucan and Alinia once a day for 2 weeks ON and 2 week OFF gradually changing up to 4 weeks OFF starting last week.

I take all my herbal tinctures full time.

Dr P in Wilton CT has stated that pulsing abx with his difficult chronic cases shows faster results than longer term full time abx treatment.

https://www.excellforlife.com/2017/06/pulse-treatment-lyme-co-infections-learning-dr-steven-phillips/

Post Edited (tickbite666) : 3/21/2018 7:28:59 AM (GMT-6)


OriolCarol
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   Posted 3/21/2018 7:42 AM (GMT -6)   
So it's a good planing what i have to treat borrelia and bart?

tickbite666
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 1604
   Posted 3/21/2018 7:53 AM (GMT -6)   
For Lyme its a good start. But I see nothing for Bart. Levaquin and Cipro are the heavy hitter go to abx, but carry a black box warning, so most folks go with Rifampin instead. Bactrim is said to work across all three B's, but not the first choice for Bart tx.

You may want to try adding some of Buhners recommended core herbal protocols for Bart on your own, and I've heard Byron Whites A-Bart is also highly recommended (but not together due to some overlapping herbal items). I like Woodland Essence JK plus since it combines Cat's Claw and a few other important herbs, then try maybe Sida Acuta or Cryptolepsis. Just go slow and add items one at a time to see how you react before taking the blended versions.

Post Edited (tickbite666) : 3/21/2018 8:46:52 AM (GMT-6)


OriolCarol
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Date Joined Dec 2017
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   Posted 3/21/2018 7:54 AM (GMT -6)   
When you were on ceftriaxone, were you on bactrim?

tickbite666
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 1604
   Posted 3/21/2018 8:03 AM (GMT -6)   
Yes, but I ramped up slowly (in reverse order).

3/8/13 to 3/30/13: IV Doxycycline, Bactrim DS, Tindamax
2/5/13 to 3/7/13: Zithromax, IV Doxycycline, Mepron x2, Bactrim DS, Tindamax
1/21/13 to 2/5/13: Zithromax, IV Doxycycline, Actigall, Mepron x2, Bactrim DS, Tindamax
10/29/12 to 1/20/13: Zithromax, IV Rocephin (2x/4 days/wk), Actigall, Mepron x2, Bactrim DS, Tindamax
9/12/12 to 10/29/12: Zithromax, IV Rocephin (2x/4 days/wk), Actigall, Mepron x2, Bactrim DS
8/25/12 to 9/11/12: Zithromax, IV Rocephin (2x/4 days/wk), Actigall, Mepron x2
6/30/12 to 8/24/12: Zithromax, IV Rocephin (2x/4 days/wk), Actigall, Mepron x2, Diflucan
6/22/12 to 6/29/12: Zithromax, IV Rocephin (2x/4 days/wk), Actigall, Mepron x2
4/19/12 to 6/21/12: Zithromax, IV Rocephin (2x/4 days/wk), Actigall, Mepron, Bactrim DS
2/27/12 to 4/19/12: Zithromax, IV Rocephin (2x/4 days/wk), Actigall, Mepron
2/21/12 to 2/26/12: Zithromax, IV Rocephin (2x/4 days/wk, 3 days off pulse), Actigall, Rifampin
1/17/12 to 2/20/12: Zithromax, IV Rocephin (1x/day), Actigall, Rifampin
12/19/11 to 1/16/12: Zithromax, IV Rocephin (1x/day), Actigall

OriolCarol
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 563
   Posted 3/21/2018 8:07 AM (GMT -6)   
What dosedose of IV ceftriaxone were you taking tickbite666?

I'm worried because i agree with pulsing ceftriaxone but i don't see very clear pulse bactrim. I'll coment to my doctor if we can take it every day, but it would be a high dose of antibiotics?

Post Edited (OriolCarol) : 3/21/2018 8:16:40 AM (GMT-6)


tickbite666
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 1604
   Posted 3/21/2018 8:57 AM (GMT -6)   
My dose was 2gr in a 20 cc saline push. At once a day every day that's 7 doses a week. When pulsed twice per day for 4 days ON and 3 days OFF is only slightly higher at 8 doses per week.

For Bactrim I have taken it every day and/or pulsed with other oral abx. There are no clear rules... we are all different and LLMDs also treat differently. It's how well you tolerate the dosage and your treatment progress.

Kat1000
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Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 666
   Posted 3/21/2018 10:25 AM (GMT -6)   
Initially I did doxy 6 days a week and tini m-w-f only. Then mino and tini, same way. Months later I did doxy and rifampin 3 days a week. The last thing I did was rifampin for 30 days. My LLMD also added in herbals along the way. I did buhner for a while too. Now I'm only doing biopure cocktail.

There's a lot of trial and error.
MTHTR single mutation; Positive Igenix IgG Jan 2017; March/Apr '17: doxy, Tinizadole. 5/1 samento and mino/tini. 5/28- back to doxy, added activated charcoal. 6/9 - stopped antibiox; staying with samento, red root and houttiya and supps. tried LDN; 8/24 rifampin, samento, red root and supps. On and off rifampin. 1/1/18 - 1/20 rifampin. Herbs and vitamins only now.

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32667
   Posted 3/21/2018 10:47 AM (GMT -6)   
OriolCarol said...
So the protocol would be

Monday: zithromax 500mg, bactrim 1 pill, ceftriaxone 4gr
Tuesday: zithromax 500mg, ceftriaxone 4gr
Wednesday: zithromax 500mg, bactrim 1 pill, ceftriaxone 4gr
Thursday: zithromax 500mg, ceftriaxone 4gr
Friday: zithromax 500mg, bactrim 1 pill.
Saturday: zithromax 500mg
Sunday: zithromax 500mg, bactrim 1 pill

At this he add me Japanse knotweed, hawtorne tincture, im gluthatione, and ursodiol to prevent biliary calculus.


That’s not what I’d call a pulsing protocol. You’re taking two abx daily.

Pulsing generally involves drug holidays - even if it’s just a couple of days.


And hopefully Rifampin or Rifabutin will be added to the mix - Bactrim usually won’t cut it for bart
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

OriolCarol
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 563
   Posted 3/21/2018 2:33 PM (GMT -6)   
I won't cut bactrim. I've talked it with my doctor.

So one pill of bactrim and zhitro is enough to battle bart?

So.. sinergic effect of ceftriaxone can cut the reproduction of bart really?

Now, that i can do IV, is better iv zhitro or oral?

Post Edited (OriolCarol) : 3/21/2018 3:17:38 PM (GMT-6)


Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32667
   Posted 3/21/2018 3:47 PM (GMT -6)   
My protocol is Bactrim DS 1 pill twice daily (DS means double strength)

So you need two pills each day of the double strength.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

OriolCarol
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 563
   Posted 3/21/2018 3:56 PM (GMT -6)   
My bactrim in my country is named: Septrin forte, 160mg/800mg. Is it the same girlie?

Here llmds are more afraid to prescribe antibiotics (Spain, France) and they use low doses.

So, if i do two pills each day, with this protocol, could i die from the toxicity? It would be, zhitromax 500mg, bactrim 2x day and 4gr ceftriaxone.

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32667
   Posted 3/21/2018 4:07 PM (GMT -6)   
yes, mine says Sulfatrim DS 800 160mg

Looks fine.

Taking two Bactrim and one azithromycin per day is similar to a LLMD's protocol where he prescribes Bactrim and Biaxin (Biaxin is same class as Zithro) together.

I don't know about the IV Ceftriaxone though...I've not taken IV abx..so have not researched them.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

OriolCarol
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 563
   Posted 3/21/2018 4:21 PM (GMT -6)   
Thank you Girlie.

If i increase the dose progresively, is it good?

Today i did the first dose of ceftriaxone 4gr. Tomorrow i will add zithro and later add bactrim?

I don't think i'll had a lot of toxicity because i will be three days, friday, saturday and sunday without ceftriaxone.

So the half life of zithro is 48h?

Post Edited (OriolCarol) : 3/21/2018 4:42:42 PM (GMT-6)


OriolCarol
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 563
   Posted 3/21/2018 4:58 PM (GMT -6)   
The protocol now would be.

Monday: zithromax 500mg, bactrim 2x day, ceftriaxone 4gr
Tuesday: zithromax 500mg, bactrim 2x day ceftriaxone 4gr
Wednesday: zithromax 500mg, bactrim 2x day ceftriaxone 4gr
Thursday: zithromax 500mg, bactrim 2 day, ceftriaxone 4gr
Friday: zithromax 500mg, bactrim 2 day.
Saturday: zithromax 500mg, bactrim 2 day.
Sunday: zithromax 500mg, bactrim 2x day.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32667
   Posted 3/21/2018 5:19 PM (GMT -6)   
Is your dr having you test liver and kidney function monthly ?
Also a CBC - rbc, wbc,hemoglobin....etc
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32667
   Posted 3/21/2018 5:23 PM (GMT -6)   
OriolCarol said...
Thank you Girlie.

If i increase the dose progresively, is it good?

Today i did the first dose of ceftriaxone 4gr. Tomorrow i will add zithro and later add bactrim?

I don't think i'll had a lot of toxicity because i will be three days, friday, saturday and sunday without ceftriaxone.

So the half life of zithro is 48h?


I think the Half life of Zithromax is longer - 68 hours I’ve read.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

OriolCarol
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 563
   Posted 3/22/2018 2:05 AM (GMT -6)   
Yes, every 15 days. And an abdominal echo.

OriolCarol
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 563
   Posted 3/22/2018 6:00 AM (GMT -6)   
Girlie, bactrim cross the blood brain barrier right?

Now i've started the second antibiotic, zhitro 500mg at morning.

I don't know what to do, if wait some days and after add bactrim, or add it tomorrow.

OriolCarol
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 563
   Posted 3/22/2018 7:18 AM (GMT -6)   
Tickbitte666 when you did zhitroo, bactrim, rocephin. Your dossage was 500mg zhitro, bactrim 2xday, and ceftriaxone 2gr 2xday? It gives me peace of mind to know that someone did a similar protocol

OriolCarol
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 563
   Posted 3/22/2018 3:24 PM (GMT -6)   
Today,i've started to herx...but it's tolerable.

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32667
   Posted 3/22/2018 4:37 PM (GMT -6)   
OriolCarol said...
Girlie, bactrim cross the blood brain barrier right?

Now i've started the second antibiotic, zhitro 500mg at morning.

I don't know what to do, if wait some days and after add bactrim, or add it tomorrow.


Sorry, that's one antibiotic I don't know much about - (other than the risk of SJ Syndrome!!!!) - so I don't know how good it is at going through blood/brain barrier.

According to Dr. J - that's not important. But, I thought it was and that's why I pushed to go on the minocycline.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi
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