Taking a Step Back and Targeting Yeast

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NicHostetler
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   Posted 3/22/2018 10:12 PM (GMT -6)   
Since my first few days of bart treatment didn’t go so well, I decided to take a little break to let my body detox and get rid of the mepron that has such an insanely long half life.

Today I started thinking that maybe this dizzyness and fog could be related to yeast overgrowth. I know I tested positive for bartonella, but I think before I start that I should take nystatin for a few weeks just to make sure it’s in check. I specifically remember trying liquid nystatin a few months ago and having horrible migraines the next day so I just stopped. But, looking back, that could have been a good thing maybe? Maybe the headaches were a herx and I need to just push through and buy some molybdenum to help get rid of the toxins during treatment.

Is this crazy? Maybe going down the wrong path when I really should be focusing solely on bart?

What made me think yeast was reading some of Marty Ross’s stuff. He says that when patients suddenly get worse during treatment it’s 90% of the time yeast, and 90% of the time they will get better quickly with yeast treatment.

What are your thoughts?

WalkingbyFaith
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   Posted 3/22/2018 10:16 PM (GMT -6)   
I don't see any harm in trying. You could be right.

ArtAngel
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   Posted 3/22/2018 10:27 PM (GMT -6)   
I don't know that a few weeks of nystatin would cure candida. It never worked like that for me. As soon as I stopped the yeast issue came back again and again and again.
So in the harsh light of hindsight and experience this is what I am doing maybe it will help you with your decisions.
I need to be on the candida diet and keep your pH up to normal with pH booster drops, apple cider vinegar, green drinks and plenty of healthy water. I take a herbal remedy for candida and take it continually - caprylic acid and pau d'arco. they support your body more, iHerb have some. Just take it until you are symptom free.
Thats what I am doing now. Candida is the companion to a sick body. When you are no longer sick you wont have candida issues.

Girlie
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   Posted 3/22/2018 11:13 PM (GMT -6)   
I thought nystatin was only if it hadn’t gone systemic?

You might need Diflucan.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

The Dude Abides
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   Posted 3/22/2018 11:32 PM (GMT -6)   
Nic,

What's your diet like? Can you give some examples of, say, three days worth of food? (major meals, snacks, drinks, etc.)

There's varying theories on the proper diet for yeast/candida. So, I'm curious what you're doing.

Danke

NicHostetler
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Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 647
   Posted 3/23/2018 7:58 AM (GMT -6)   
Girlie - I will probably add diflucan one a day as well too since I have some.

ArtAngel - I understand that I cant cure yeast in a few weeks, but my goal is to see if it helps with symptoms within a few weeks. If it does, I know I am dealing with yeast and I will continue herbals after I start treatment for bartonella with things like caprylic acid and pau d'arco.

Basically this is a little trial to see if yeast is my issue or if it truly is bart.


Dude - My diet is pretty terrible. I try to stay away from sugar but other than that it's wide open. Reason being is that I tried the diet thing last year for three straight months and lost so much weight my doctor said to stop. It also made me feel 10 times worse and never better.

I live in an apartment in a city so my kitchen is tiny. I usually don't cook, but instead go out. I'm in the process of buying a new house right now, so when that is all done I'll have a nice kitchen to work with and make healthy meals smile If I have the energy... that's the other issue. Usually I am so worn out from working I can barely even lift my legs to do anything after work.

astroman
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   Posted 3/23/2018 9:37 PM (GMT -6)   
NicHostetler said...

I live in an apartment in a city so my kitchen is tiny. I usually don't cook, but instead go out. I'm in the process of buying a new house right now, so when that is all done I'll have a nice kitchen to work with and make healthy meals smile If I have the energy... that's the other issue. Usually I am so worn out from working I can barely even lift my legs to do anything after work.


Cutting out sugar and carbs can almost starve candida and SIBO - enough that it can make one feel different/odd at first. This also helps heal the gut, which will help one absorb nutrients correctly.

A natural foods diet is incredibly simple. A candida diet is just that without major carbs (no pasta/potatoes/bananas) and no sugar. Its the easiest way to cook on a stove, olive oil and spices are your best friends. I would imagine, this way of eating might seem difficult for people who were brought up on the opposite. I wish I had tried this decades ago.

Post Edited (astroman) : 3/23/2018 8:41:55 PM (GMT-6)


The Dude Abides
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   Posted 3/24/2018 2:08 AM (GMT -6)   
astroman,

Hey, amigo. You ever read about people who allege using a diet high in fruit to address candida issues?

After Nic posted his question, I did some reading and that prompted me to ask him about diet. Since Nic stated his diet is wide-open, I figured there was no use in me pursuing that route. I mean, if a house is on fire, there's no sense in me trying to rearrange the furniture!

But, it seems like I've read many posts about people cutting-out starches, fruit, refined carbs, added/processed sugar, etc. But, I don't recall that having a 100% success rate. In some cases, some people realized some benefits, until they stopped their restrictive diet. Then, they relapsed.

I've not had a need to look into candida issues for myself, so I'm not well-versed on the topic.

Anyway, I did find a few websites of people who stated that a fruit-heavy diet helped. I've also seen people claim success with diabetes, too, by eating lots of fruit. On the surface, neither *seems* to make sense. But, for some, the results appear to indicate otherwise.

The Dude

MooseSafari
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Date Joined Jan 2018
Total Posts : 78
   Posted 3/24/2018 5:10 AM (GMT -6)   
I have read quite a bunch of cases where people been struggling with lyme just as all folks on this forum, first getting improvement by refining their diets, then eventually getting fully well either by sticking to the diet, refining it more or at least after a shorter or longer fast.

My experience after 2 years struggle diet makes a huge change. Problem for me (and I guess for a lot of others) is that when I feel really fine and well, my diet slip down the drain, and it all recurse...

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5099
   Posted 3/24/2018 1:12 PM (GMT -6)   
The Dude Abides said...
astroman,

Hey, amigo. You ever read about people who allege using a diet high in fruit to address candida issues?

After Nic posted his question, I did some reading and that prompted me to ask him about diet. Since Nic stated his diet is wide-open, I figured there was no use in me pursuing that route. I mean, if a house is on fire, there's no sense in me trying to rearrange the furniture!

But, it seems like I've read many posts about people cutting-out starches, fruit, refined carbs, added/processed sugar, etc. But, I don't recall that having a 100% success rate. In some cases, some people realized some benefits, until they stopped their restrictive diet. Then, they relapsed.

I've not had a need to look into candida issues for myself, so I'm not well-versed on the topic.

Anyway, I did find a few websites of people who stated that a fruit-heavy diet helped. I've also seen people claim success with diabetes, too, by eating lots of fruit. On the surface, neither *seems* to make sense. But, for some, the results appear to indicate otherwise.

The Dude


I did the diet thing in baby steps, then did a more committed overhaul 15 months ago. If your young with all the socializing/eating- it would be difficult. I would like to go out more now that I'm better, but , been there done that enough to some extent. I do miss beer, but not the long term effects.

With full blown candida diet alone wont fix it, but helps. People recourse when they start eating everything again. This could be any gut yeast and SIBO combined.

Fruit diet helping candida and glucose (in diabetics)?

** - I would like to read that, as I have had both issues. **

Bananas (my fave to go) is evil on both accounts in my personal experience. I often wonder if there is also a glucose intolerant/candida link too.

There is (was) a athletic couple on you tube who were on a bannana diet. A body can only do this if its 100% healthy, apparently they are. Even fit athletes can get insulin intolerance, and post work out body gets a huge liver sugar dump into the blood into muscle that might not be able to receive then use all this sugar. Its weird.

aphysicalwreck
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Date Joined Sep 2012
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   Posted 3/24/2018 7:40 PM (GMT -6)   
I just want to interject by saying that I understand diet can help but I have a hard time with the candida diagnosis creating havoc in the body and causing all of my symptoms like head tingling, lightheaded feeling, off balance, head pressure, neck pain etc.

I'm doing the best I can with the diet and supplements for leaky gut but there is no change.

I'm seeing a dr that mostly treats with supplements and does think out of the box but my regulars drs dont get the whole candida thing which makes me confused

I had a candida blood test done with the new dr. The results were high on igg. It was 1.4. In range would be 0.8. How accurate is this test anyway. Does anybody know.

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
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   Posted 3/25/2018 12:23 AM (GMT -6)   
candida blood test - very accurate

systemic candida overgrowth can and has caused death, very rare though
Had initial lyme symptoms late 80's, then again and with bullseye early 90's. Ended ABX for Lyme in 2015. Rebuilding / fine tuning / fixing muscles since then; member "10 Percenters Lyme Club". What an adventure this has been. Hashimotos adds to the enjoyment.

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33965
   Posted 3/25/2018 1:14 AM (GMT -6)   
aphysicalwreck said...
I just want to interject by saying that I understand diet can help but I have a hard time with the candida diagnosis creating havoc in the body and causing all of my symptoms like head tingling, lightheaded feeling, off balance, head pressure, neck pain etc.

I'm doing the best I can with the diet and supplements for leaky gut but there is no change.



I wonder about that too.

I have a friend who had a bad candida issue (she doesn't have lyme) and she had some annoying symptoms, but not what you hear on the forum...definitely nothing that interrupted her very busy life.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5099
   Posted 3/25/2018 10:51 AM (GMT -6)   
I had annoying systemic candida symptoms enough times that I can somewhat separate them from both lyme and thyroid. Its a real infection, but obviously is different for different people.

In my experience, it made a lot of foods difficult to digest and uncomfortable, belching all day, brain fog , thus has a link to leaky gut.

Candida does not belong in ones blood or body tissue beyond the gut.
Had initial lyme symptoms late 80's, then again and with bullseye early 90's. Ended ABX for Lyme in 2015. Rebuilding / fine tuning / fixing muscles since then; member "10 Percenters Lyme Club". What an adventure this has been. Hashimotos adds to the enjoyment.

aphysicalwreck
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Date Joined Sep 2012
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   Posted 3/25/2018 11:02 AM (GMT -6)   
Astro

I posted my results above. How high is that? Would you say that's a very high candida level?

1000Daisies
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   Posted 3/25/2018 11:02 AM (GMT -6)   
Girlie said...
I thought nystatin was only if it hadn’t gone systemic?

You might need Diflucan.


There are actually varying, conflicting opinions on that.
I think it's more common that people view nystatin for acute, whereas diflucan for systemic.
I personally don't believe in that from my experience/readings.

I've posted this article previously, but I'll post again.
/nutritioninstitute.com/why-diflucan-does-not-cure-candida-albicans-and-what-you-should-take-instead/

Per article:
"The answer is that Diflucan does not get to all the yeast. To understand why, you need to know something about where the yeast Candida albicans lives. Candida lives in the inside of the entire intestinal tract, both the small intestines and the large intestine. Diflucan only gets to part of the intestinal tract, by design. Diflucan is meant to be absorbed high up in the intestines, in the part just beyond the stomach. It is meant to travel through the body’s organs. Diflucan does not get to the inside of the lower intestinal tract. Because it doesn’t get there, Diflucan leaves much of the yeast Candida undisturbed. When a patient first takes Diflucan, the drug kills some yeast, so the person feels better. But eventually, the yeast grows back. In addition, my patients who come to me after having taken Diflucan prescribed by other doctors report that the yeast is worse after long term use of Diflucan. In my medical opinion, Diflucan is simply not a long term answer to chronic Candida problems."



I know this is a somewhat unpopular viewpoint, but I'm offering it because I think it has its merit/points. smile

Post Edited (1000Daisies) : 3/25/2018 10:16:07 AM (GMT-6)


1000Daisies
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   Posted 3/25/2018 11:09 AM (GMT -6)   
FWIW - my functional medicine MD doctor will alternate between diflucan and nystation (do one for one month, then the other the next month, and repeat).
I haven't personally done this though.

I have done the generic diflucan for 3 weeks. It did nothing for me.
I do prefer the (pure powder version) nystatin due to what I've read about how it works. Even if you have non-gut yeast infection symptoms, I think it's important to treat the intestinal tract, as I believe that it is commonly the source.

I know somebody who took a probiotic and her fungal issue on her foot was resolved (which she had for years). She was repopulating the gut with good bacteria (hence, bringing down yeast in her issue), and yet, a seemingly unrelated issue on the foot was resolved. So, gut plays a bigger factor often times than what we realize.
(I wish it were that easy for me to resolve my chronic systemic yeast issues. If only taking a good probiotic worked for me...)

I know I've said it before, but I'll say it again because I think it's worth saying. I was turned away from doctors because my candida albicans repeated were negative. So, they didn't think I had a yeast infection. But they were wrong. I had a non-candida systemic chronic yeast infection. Unfortunately, doctors are too focused on just one strain and miss the boat on others.
Kid#1: Extremely sick for several years, very difficult to treat, but doing great now!
Kid#2: Still sick now despite being treated for years but doing better (not well yet).
Kid#3: Generally good but relapsing off/on.
Me: Adv Labs positive 2016 (suspected I passed to my kids)-not as sick as others, mostly battling fatigue and yeast issues (heart/kidney issues resolved)
Treating with herbals now.

1000Daisies
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Date Joined Apr 2016
Total Posts : 2474
   Posted 3/25/2018 11:15 AM (GMT -6)   
aphysicalwreck said...
I just want to interject by saying that I understand diet can help but I have a hard time with the candida diagnosis creating havoc in the body and causing all of my symptoms like head tingling, lightheaded feeling, off balance, head pressure, neck pain etc.

I'm doing the best I can with the diet and supplements for leaky gut but there is no change.

I'm seeing a dr that mostly treats with supplements and does think out of the box but my regulars drs dont get the whole candida thing which makes me confused

I had a candida blood test done with the new dr. The results were high on igg. It was 1.4. In range would be 0.8. How accurate is this test anyway. Does anybody know.


As with anybody, it will vary.

For me, I didn't see any real improvement with treating herbally for lyme specifically. However, I made huge improvements with my toughest symptoms at the time (headaches/migraines, menstrual migraines, supposedly unexplained kidney pain that made me sick, etc). All of those went away now (although I do have some dull ache in kidney occasionally but it doesn't make me bedridden sick anymore). For me, the change was very dramatic. I self-treated for the yeast.

Honestly, I don't think many people would associate the headaches with the yeast imbalance. And numerous doctors were CLUELESS about my kidney pain which would make me bedridden sick. Again, they couldn't connect the dots. I finally started to put it together and wondered if it could be yeast related. I really didn't know, but I figured I'd try and see what happened. And surprisingly, it made a huge improvement on those symptoms.
Kid#1: Extremely sick for several years, very difficult to treat, but doing great now!
Kid#2: Still sick now despite being treated for years but doing better (not well yet).
Kid#3: Generally good but relapsing off/on.
Me: Adv Labs positive 2016 (suspected I passed to my kids)-not as sick as others, mostly battling fatigue and yeast issues (heart/kidney issues resolved)
Treating with herbals now.

ChickenArise
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Date Joined Nov 2015
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   Posted 3/25/2018 11:18 AM (GMT -6)   
1000Daisies said...
Girlie said...
I thought nystatin was only if it hadn’t gone systemic?

You might need Diflucan.
...


/nutritioninstitute.com/why-diflucan-does-not-cure-candida-albicans-and-what-you-should-take-instead/

Per article:
"The answer is that Diflucan does not get to all the yeast. To understand why, you need to know something about where the yeast Candida albicans lives. Candida lives in the inside of the entire intestinal tract, both the small intestines and the large intestine. Diflucan only gets to part of the intestinal tract, by design. Diflucan is meant to be absorbed high up in the intestines, in the part just beyond the stomach. It is meant to travel through the body’s organs. Diflucan does not get to the inside of the lower intestinal tract. Because it doesn’t get there, Diflucan leaves much of the yeast Candida undisturbed. When a patient first takes Diflucan, the drug kills some yeast, so the person feels better. But eventually, the yeast grows back. In addition, my patients who come to me after having taken Diflucan prescribed by other doctors report that the yeast is worse after long term use of Diflucan. In my medical opinion, Diflucan is simply not a long term answer to chronic Candida problems."


Diflucan can only get you part of the way as the article states. Spanish Black Raddish can get you the rest of the way home. It is often used in conjunction with oil of oregano in the thickest capsule you can find with the goal of getting it to release deeper in the intestines. It is great that you are addressing the fungal aspects as I also had no luck treating Bart but improved when I shifted focus.

2014 Mold Sick,2015 Clinical Lyme and co.,2016 Morgellons,2017 Remission
YT: ClintFromNYtoVA2
Twitter: @ClintFromNYtoVA
Blog: www.fascinatingtimetobealive.blogspot.com/
" The path to disappointment is paved with expectations "

Post Edited (ChickenArise) : 3/25/2018 10:21:54 AM (GMT-6)


aphysicalwreck
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Date Joined Sep 2012
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   Posted 3/25/2018 1:35 PM (GMT -6)   
Very interesting. Nobody on this board that I know of ever mentioning Spanish black radish. Should we all go out and get it? Can it be used alone without nystatin or diflucan?

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
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   Posted 3/25/2018 1:45 PM (GMT -6)   
aphysicalwreck said...
Astro

I posted my results above. How high is that? Would you say that's a very high candida level?


Mine was not above 2 if I remember, and I felt terrible. It probably matters where the yeast goes beyond your blood, what organs ect. The veins are its highway.

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5099
   Posted 3/25/2018 2:13 PM (GMT -6)   
1000Daisies said...
Girlie said...
I thought nystatin was only if it hadn’t gone systemic?

You might need Diflucan.


There are actually varying, conflicting opinions on that.
I think it's more common that people view nystatin for acute, whereas diflucan for systemic.
I personally don't believe in that from my experience/readings.

I've posted this article previously, but I'll post again.
/nutritioninstitute.com/why-diflucan-does-not-cure-candida-albicans-and-what-you-should-take-instead/

Per article:
"The answer is that Diflucan does not get to all the yeast. To understand why, you need to know something about where the yeast Candida albicans lives. Candida lives in the inside of the entire intestinal tract, both the small intestines and the large intestine. Diflucan only gets to part of the intestinal tract, by design. Diflucan is meant to be absorbed high up in the intestines, in the part just beyond the stomach. It is meant to travel through the body’s organs. Diflucan does not get to the inside of the lower intestinal tract. Because it doesn’t get there, Diflucan leaves much of the yeast Candida undisturbed. When a patient first takes Diflucan, the drug kills some yeast, so the person feels better. But eventually, the yeast grows back. In addition, my patients who come to me after having taken Diflucan prescribed by other doctors report that the yeast is worse after long term use of Diflucan. In my medical opinion, Diflucan is simply not a long term answer to chronic Candida problems."



I know this is a somewhat unpopular viewpoint, but I'm offering it because I think it has its merit/points. smile


If it's in YOUR BLOOD, then diflican works better than nystatin, I know from experience. If people keep eating candida food (some people have food "issues", sorry for being straight forward), it can come back. Like lyme we lower candida, not eliminate it. Proper diet is required after for many.

This Dr is advocating proper diet, his book /books.google.com/books/about/Feast_Without_Yeast.html?id=o0dDDkWtE80C&source=kp_cover

I still have some nystatin, since this is more for the digestive tract, I'm thinking of taking it again (no longer have systemic candida symptoms,in blood).

Post Edited (astroman) : 3/25/2018 9:20:05 PM (GMT-6)


astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5099
   Posted 3/25/2018 2:17 PM (GMT -6)   
aphysicalwreck said...
Very interesting. Nobody on this board that I know of ever mentioning Spanish black radish. Should we all go out and get it? Can it be used alone without nystatin or diflucan?


I never heard of Spanish black radish either. ? Hmm.

/www.amazon.com/Standard-Process-Spanish-Radish-Tablets/dp/B000VYZCIU

Post Edited (astroman) : 3/25/2018 1:34:52 PM (GMT-6)


astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5099
   Posted 3/25/2018 2:31 PM (GMT -6)   
/www.thecandidadiet.com/radish-is-a-natural-antifungal/

good thing I like regular radishes. (radi?)
Had initial lyme symptoms late 80's, then again and with bullseye early 90's. Ended ABX for Lyme in 2015. Rebuilding / fine tuning / fixing muscles since then; member "10 Percenters Lyme Club". What an adventure this has been. Hashimotos adds to the enjoyment.

The Dude Abides
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Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 1157
   Posted 3/25/2018 2:50 PM (GMT -6)   
aphysicalwreck said...
Very interesting. Nobody on this board that I know of ever mentioning Spanish black radish. Should we all go out and get it? Can it be used alone without nystatin or diflucan?


I mentioned it here:

/www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3989671

Plus, searching the forum, it's been mentioned before, too.
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