Rifampin herx???

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tonyaraven
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 398
   Posted 3/26/2018 3:48 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi everyone, so I insult got the nerve to start rifampin yesterday, I was only going to do half 300mg all day but I ended up taking the other half later in the day since things seemed to go ok. This am I took the whole 300mg. At about 2pm I started getting such a horrendous headache and neck pain. I took an epsom salt bath and drank plenty of lemon water but it's not letting up! It's so intense! Could this be a herx already?

goshawk
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 2122
   Posted 3/26/2018 4:12 PM (GMT -6)   
It sure could be a herx, I would consider backing down on the ABX for the next few days and continue detoxing.

If you use a binder, I would also incorporate that into your schedule tonight and tomorrow somehow.


Herxing is not really good for the body....too much die off over taxes our bodies.

Take care and I hope you get some relief soon.

tonyaraven
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 398
   Posted 3/26/2018 10:50 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks Goshawk! I contacted my llmd and he wants me to try to stay on the rifampin, in fact he wants me to be on 300 mg 2x a day and not just once like I'm doing, he said that can cause resistance. I've been having terrible flares the last few weeks, so he is hoping that this will somehow get to Bart and things will get better! My head and neck are so bad it's so hard to know if this is a herx or just a worse continuation of my previous symptoms I've been having. The nice thing before is evenings were always better, headaches etc would calm down but tonight I feel as though my head will explode at any minute!! I am so beyond exhausted of feeling so awful...wish I could at least have the break in the evening continue!!

Aerose91
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Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 391
   Posted 3/27/2018 5:29 PM (GMT -6)   
I actually just spoke to someone today who just started Rifampin for bartonella and is having the exact same symptoms. Seems as though it's definitely a herx considering you both have the same thing

Rikky1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2860
   Posted 3/27/2018 5:53 PM (GMT -6)   
its a herx it almost always happens when someone starts rifampin/rifabutin.

are you taking this with any other antibiotics?

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32656
   Posted 3/27/2018 6:50 PM (GMT -6)   
Rikky1 said...
its a herx it almost always happens when someone starts rifampin/rifabutin.

are you taking this with any other antibiotics?


She's taking doxy, I think.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32656
   Posted 3/27/2018 6:51 PM (GMT -6)   
If the increase in symptoms is sudden....and quite severe...I'd say that's a good sign it's a herx.

I think if it was a worsening of the bartonella...it would be less severe of an onset...

Plus - coincidentally they got worse...right after you started the Rifampin....I'd go with the herx.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

tonyaraven
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 398
   Posted 3/27/2018 8:25 PM (GMT -6)   
So I gave up! I know I only did 2 days but last night I slept 1.5 and I was in a horrible panic all night with lots of intense pins and needles especially in my feet! I would love to really get at the Bart (which seems pretty apparent that I have, even though I didn't test positive) but I can't kill myself as well as the Bart. I read a lot of other older posts that a lot of people had severe insomnia on Rifampin. Does anyone have any other recommendations for Bart? I was thinking maybe until I can get some relief from things horrible neurological problems that I would just do herbals...but I just don't know anymore! This last month has been so awful!

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32656
   Posted 3/27/2018 8:42 PM (GMT -6)   
You could try Bactrim - it is supposed to have some action against Bart.
And go back to riffy after awhile - once the Bactria has been reduced some.

Or you could switch over to herbs.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Dollface29
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2018
Total Posts : 22
   Posted 3/30/2018 5:26 AM (GMT -6)   
If it's neck pain and a headache, its almost certainly the effects of rifampin.

For some reason, afternoons are the times it hits me too, especially in the neck. The neck pain might also be caused by rifampin bleaching magnesium and causing tightening of muscles - because magnesium helped me at one point with this. I don't know. But it's likely a herx.

tonyaraven
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 398
   Posted 3/30/2018 6:44 AM (GMT -6)   
I only took it for 2 days, Sunday and Monday. It's now Friday and my headache has gotten so bad I'm considering going to the ER, it will feel at times like it's squeezing the life out of me! Them it moves around to different parts of my head and nothing touches the pain!

Dollface29
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2018
Total Posts : 22
   Posted 3/30/2018 8:31 AM (GMT -6)   
Oh no, that def sounds like a rifampin-induced herx headache. I once got a headache (one sided) so bad I just had to run to the bed, shut all the lights, and cover that part of my face with my hair. It's OK it will eventually subside and get better. You could try easing off/stopping the rifampin for a bit, and checking with your doctor about it.

There's a blog site somewhere called Bartonella: A Co-Infection of Lyme which details the journey this person had taking rifampin and all the meds, and her herxes sound similar to yours.
Bart since Sep '16 from cat bite. Cat died days later. Undiagnosed for 9 months. Around July '17 started ABX. Current symptoms: aching knee joints, elbows and swelling. Other symptoms (headaches, severe lymph pain, eye inflammation, vision problems, severe weakness, fevers, etc) mostly gone.

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1682
   Posted 3/30/2018 9:46 AM (GMT -6)   
Dollface29 said...
If it's neck pain and a headache, its almost certainly the effects of rifampin.

For some reason, afternoons are the times it hits me too, especially in the neck. The neck pain might also be caused by rifampin bleaching magnesium and causing tightening of muscles - because magnesium helped me at one point with this. I don't know. But it's likely a herx.


I've had increased neck stiffness and headaches that have come on late in the day or evening 3 days in a row now, and I have never taken Rifampin. I am battling bartonella and am treating using Buhner's protocol. I have migraine pills (Imitrex) that I've taken 3 nights in a row now. Last night it almost didn't work. I'm getting worried, because I can take no more than 4 in a week or 9 in a month. Normally I only have 1 or 2 a month. If they keep coming, God help me.

tonyaraven
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 398
   Posted 3/30/2018 3:38 PM (GMT -6)   
Oh no! I'm so sorry you too are suffering from the headaches and neck pain WalkingbyFaith! I had the strangest thing today, I took a nap and woke up thinking everything I've been going through was just a very bad dream...didn't take long before I realized that was not the case!! The headaches take so much out of one, it's so debilitating! I so hope you get relief...I hope I do too!

Dollface29- thanks for your input, I actually only took rifampin for 2 days, that was it! I had the worst insomnia, severe headaches and intense panic the whole 2nd night that I knew I just couldn't handle it! I had only taken 300mg too which is half the dose! I don't think I will ever get the nerve to try Rifampin again. I'm getting STeven Buhner's book today on Amazon! Between all the herxing and yeast infections I've been getting I just don't think I can go the antibiotic route any longer!

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32656
   Posted 3/31/2018 10:32 AM (GMT -6)   
Hope you're feeling some relief today, Tonya!
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

tonyaraven
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 398
   Posted 3/31/2018 12:31 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks so much for checking in Girlie! I was hopeful yesterday that things were perhaps starting to get a tiny bit better, but it seems every time I get hopeful it backfires! I'm terribly dizzy today and my eye is extra blurry along with my migrating headaches. I'm also feeling chilled and tired! PLEASE, PLEASE let April be better!! I just don't get what is happening to me!! Is it strange that I've done a year and a half of treatment and I am worse now then before I started my treatment? We are going out of town for a very short trip for my kids Spring break (we were going to do a bigger trip but I can't handle it.) There is an infectious disease dr where we are going that treats lyme, and they said they could get me in, I'd just like a second opinion so I'm going to bring all my lab work. There's no other doctors around here that would take my diagnosis seriously (other then my llmd), there is just so, so much about this disease that I hate!!

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32656
   Posted 3/31/2018 12:44 PM (GMT -6)   
The year and a half treatment didn’t include Bart tho - right?
It can be rough each time we treat a different infection.

One of my pet peeves with my LLND is he kept me on Lyme only treatment too long. It was a full year later when I finally started Bart treatment.
There’s really no good reason for the delay IMO.

Then after almost 1 1/2 years of Bart treatment and plateauing - I decided enough was enough.
I self treated Babesia for several months and then decided to go to the J clinic.

No way should Lyme only be treated for a year - as treating Bart hits Lyme too.
I was clinically diagnosed with Bart during my initial consult .
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

tonyaraven
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 398
   Posted 3/31/2018 12:53 PM (GMT -6)   
Did things get really bad for you too when Bart came out after the Lyme treatment? Do you think some of what I'm feeling still has anything to do with the 2 days of Rifampin I did (sunday and Monday). I can't figure out if things will calm down enough so I can regain my strength to start treating Bart or if I have to treat Bart and somehow survive what it does to me to eventually get better! I feel totally lost!

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32656
   Posted 3/31/2018 2:32 PM (GMT -6)   
tonyaraven said...
Did things get really bad for you too when Bart came out after the Lyme treatment? Do you think some of what I'm feeling still has anything to do with the 2 days of Rifampin I did (sunday and Monday). I can't figure out if things will calm down enough so I can regain my strength to start treating Bart or if I have to treat Bart and somehow survive what it does to me to eventually get better! I feel totally lost!


I don't particularly remember the first few weeks on the Rifampin...Maybe if I check my notes I'll see something.

I think that what you're feeling could be from Sun/Mon Rifampin, yes.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

tonyaraven
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 398
   Posted 3/31/2018 4:22 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks Girlie! I hope you have a nice Easter! Fingers crossed April will magically be a good month for all of us!

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32656
   Posted 3/31/2018 4:46 PM (GMT -6)   
tonyaraven said...
Thanks Girlie! I hope you have a nice Easter! Fingers crossed April will magically be a good month for all of us!


Hey, I'm crossing finger, toes...and whatever else I can....hehe.


Easter is just hubby and I this year, so it will be quiet.


Happy easter to you!!!
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

summer16
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts : 1308
   Posted 3/31/2018 4:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Exceeding Migraine and caffeinated coffee helped me with those terrible headaches. I was Leary taking them but it was worth it. Z-z-z-Quil helped insomnia. It is Benadryl. FYI, tinctures are very powerful.

Patty
toxic effects from 2 doses of Levaquin in 2008.....Xanax for 4 monrhs in 2008 (horrific withdrawal effects)......CDC positive for Lyme's in 2009 (prescribed 200 mg daily of doxycycline for 2 months........extreme fatigue, anxiety, decreased cognition, etc. and was becoming worse in 2012......tested for Lyme's through Igenix and was CDC positive.....treatment started 9/2012

tonyaraven
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 398
   Posted 3/31/2018 10:41 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks Patty!
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