Cissus Update: healing tendons and ligaments + DMSO, getting stronger

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astroman
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   Posted 3/28/2018 12:28 PM (GMT -6)   
Cissus quadrangularis is a plant widely used in traditional Ayurvedic and African medicine across India, Asia and Africa.

/www.selfhacked.com/blog/cissus-quadrangularis/

This is new to me, still reading about it before I try.

Anyone use this?

Post Edited (astroman) : 4/16/2018 9:02:58 AM (GMT-6)


astroman
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   Posted 3/29/2018 3:51 PM (GMT -6)   

Lapis_29
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   Posted 3/29/2018 4:19 PM (GMT -6)   
have you tried BPC 157?

astroman
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   Posted 3/29/2018 5:02 PM (GMT -6)   
have you tried BPC 157?

No, new to me. Goggle brings up injectable as far as I saw at first glance......(?)
Had initial lyme symptoms late 80's, then again and with bullseye early 90's. Ended ABX for Lyme in 2015. Rebuilding / fine tuning / fixing muscles since then; member "10 Percenters Lyme Club". What an adventure this has been. Hashimotos adds to the enjoyment.

astroman
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   Posted 3/31/2018 8:58 PM (GMT -6)   
After reading great user reviews on body building forums for this healing tendon/soft tissue problems, I went ahead and bought some Cissus. The "cage" fighters use this too, they would know.

/www.amazon.com/Cissus-quadrangularis-Extract-Vegetarian-Capsules/dp/B00COPTQVI/ref=as_li_ss_tl?imprToken=q-p8k6z6XBW.3S.JO3DbRQ&linkid=6ea8215ced45b6aaab0bd8d62f3a92e8&linkCode=ll1&tag=nootrimentcissus-20&linkId=b9dd2e239d5e5cea51bd8876a389ef7f

I will keep updates on this. It the past there were more than a few here with tendon issues.

----------------------------------------------------

Its funny, some forums with this same question had some commenters who are 100% against all natural supplemental healing (its all snake oil LOL). Its great to see them corrected by people using said supplements. Such mindsets would be fed to the gators on lyme forums.

Once upon a time people thought the earth was flat (and some still do).

Post Edited (astroman) : 3/31/2018 10:11:20 PM (GMT-6)


sandyfeet
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   Posted 4/4/2018 11:48 AM (GMT -6)   
This looks interesting and promising astroman. Did you do some research into the brand you selected?

I find it such a hassle trying to figure out which brand of anything is legit so I was actually thinking of taking it as a tincture or just the herb powder as one of the suppliers I use carries it this way. I'll have to do some more reading to decide if that would be a reasonable way to go.
Bulls eye rash August 2013
Started treating with Buhner herbs July 2017
Treating Borellia, Babesia and Bartonella as of November 2017

astroman
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   Posted 4/4/2018 12:37 PM (GMT -6)   
I just tried a cheap one (capsule form) that was on the shelf - at my local vit store. In a few days, I can already tell that it does work better and sooner than other more popular soft tissue suppliments.

If it seems very prommising I will look into ordering online. There are several brands which users claim are better than others (I have not narrowed down my which one to get).
Had initial lyme symptoms late 80's, then again and with bullseye early 90's. Ended ABX for Lyme in Jan 2016. Rebuilding / fine tuning / fixing muscles since then; member "10 Percenters Lyme Club". What an adventure this has been. Hashimotos adds to the enjoyment.

sandyfeet
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   Posted 4/4/2018 12:41 PM (GMT -6)   
Good to hear. I'm going to try the powdered herb and I'll let you know how it works out.
Bulls eye rash August 2013
Started treating with Buhner herbs July 2017
Treating Borellia, Babesia and Bartonella as of November 2017

astroman
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   Posted 4/4/2018 1:10 PM (GMT -6)   

sandyfeet
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   Posted 4/4/2018 6:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Not sure yet. I read somewhere that in ayurvedic tradition the root is used fried in ghee and mixed with milk so I'm hoping it might mix well in a tumeric milk drink (I should probably be drinking more of those anyway). Otherwise in a smoothie of dubious taste - with all the various things I try to include in my diet on and off I drink a lot of questionable smoothies lol.
Bulls eye rash August 2013
Started treating with Buhner herbs July 2017
Treating Borellia, Babesia and Bartonella as of November 2017

sandyfeet
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Date Joined Mar 2018
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   Posted 4/9/2018 2:27 PM (GMT -6)   
So my cissus powder arrived today and it's not an unpleasant taste at all and goes perfectly in a tumeric milk (and would blend easily into a smoothie too I think). Now to slowly figure out a reasonable dose.

Any additional comments to share on your experiences so far Astroman?
Bulls eye rash August 2013
Started treating with Buhner herbs July 2017
Treating Borellia, Babesia and Bartonella as of November 2017

astroman
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   Posted 4/9/2018 2:51 PM (GMT -6)   
I've read most take it two or three times a day, I've done both depending on soreness from which workout routine.

Two caps each dose (1300mg I think) is what I take so far.

Its also somewhat calming - regulates / lowers elevated cortisol and blood sugar, as those two work together, thats an additional perk for me, maybe not everyone though.

What brand powder did you order?

sandyfeet
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Date Joined Mar 2018
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   Posted 4/9/2018 3:06 PM (GMT -6)   
I ordered the powdered root from Herbie's Herbs - it's just the raw herb rather than the standardized extract so I'm expecting my results may vary.

I'm planning to aim for somewhere between 1-3 g dived between two doses and see. It definitely sounds like quite an excellent herb - I'm interested to see if I'm perceptive enough to notice the calming and other effects too. Hoping this is the solution my joints have been waiting most impatiently for.
Bulls eye rash August 2013
Started treating with Buhner herbs July 2017
Treating Borellia, Babesia and Bartonella as of November 2017

astroman
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   Posted 4/9/2018 3:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Whole herb, stalks and all, but ground up in powder? hmm...different.

I can feel the gradual calming, and glucose is a little lower. Heavy workouts elevate both for hours after (raises cortisol, then glucose follows), this seems to counter effect that.....well so far.
Had initial lyme symptoms late 80's, then again and with bullseye early 90's. Ended ABX for Lyme in Jan 2016. Rebuilding / fine tuning / fixing muscles since then; member "10 Percenters Lyme Club". What an adventure this has been. Hashimotos adds to the enjoyment.

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5099
   Posted 4/15/2018 8:32 PM (GMT -6)   
Two week update:

Feeling stronger from cissus, plus I still use topical DMSO several times on sore areas. Some mornings are still a little sore in some areas (old injuries), but I'm really pushing myself lately.

Tested myself today:
-Shoveled some of our fresh 15" of snow

-then did three 75 yard deep snow sprint runs on the town ball-field to really loosen up

-Then leg pressed 500lbs 20 times, which I dont think is "meat head" territory, but pretty good for 6', 180, I have not done that in 30 years or so. Max of 20 reps was 400lbs for 6 months up to 3 weeks ago.
I had a pain limit at 300lbs on leg press just before ABX (prior 2014) and didnt do any leg press in 2016.

***These weight numbers were posted because there is no way a 180lb guy could naturally gain enough muscle strength in just three weeks to go from 400lbs to 500lbs (both 20 reps) on the leg press. The same muscle mass is present, its just in a more healed state, from cissus plant supplement.***

Feel good right now, I just took more cissus and painted on some DMSO to get out of bed Monday morning LOL.

So I'd say its obvious that cissus works.

I read about it on bodybuilding forums for muscle and tendon issues. I dont know how much it can help for people who still have lyme, certainly cant hurt to try.

Next morning update: got outta bed with no problem, hips / legs fell good. Neck and should are a little sore from shoveling heavy snow, thats it.
Had initial lyme symptoms late 80's, then again and with bullseye early 90's. Ended ABX for Lyme in Jan 2016. Rebuilding / fine tuning / fixing muscles since then; member "10 Percenters Lyme Club". What an adventure this has been. Hashimotos adds to the enjoyment.

Post Edited (astroman) : 4/16/2018 8:00:16 AM (GMT-6)


sandyfeet
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   Posted 4/16/2018 7:57 AM (GMT -6)   
That's fabulous Astroman!

It's just barely been a week for me and I think it's making a difference as well. I stopped taping my ankle and my knee as they seem to be doing better right now even when I walked up the hill to the mailbox which is often stressful on my joints. It's early yet but I'm really hoping this is the thing that brings my joints back to right.

Thanks so much for sharing this one.
Bulls eye rash August 2013
Started treating with Buhner herbs July 2017
Treating Borellia, Babesia and Bartonella as of November 2017

Hoagie
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Date Joined Jul 2017
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   Posted 4/16/2018 1:41 PM (GMT -6)   
This sounds very promising astroman!

My ligaments/tendons have went downhill fast. Especially in my knees. It is very painful for me to even squat anymore. I will have to try this.

Do you apply the dmso undiluted?

astroman
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   Posted 4/16/2018 2:48 PM (GMT -6)   
I guess and mix in 10-30% distilled water with it in a shot glass. Its supposed to sting less that way, but still does. I will sometimes put arnica montana gel over its when near dry.

The snow running really felt great, wish there were something similar for summer. Wood chip trail is the closest thing to cushion, but provides no resistance. My lungs have improved. First time I tried it this winter I thought I was going to keel over. The snow will be here a while, so I'll do it again maybe.

astroman
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   Posted 6/30/2018 8:25 AM (GMT -6)   
Three month Cissus Update:

I've been using Cissus plant in capsule for exactly 3 months now - and my tendon's are definitely better and I have almost normal post workout recovery.

This has allowed me to be much more aggressive with more varieties of shoulder workouts, and i'm much stronger in my shoulders than just three months ago. Full range of motion with only a minimal click in one shoulder direction/movement if not warmed up. I can now workout upper body for days in a row without issues.

I no longer need to use topical DMSO after aggressive upper body workouts - its more of an option now. Will prob still use it for glutes and TFL/ hip muscle strengthening though.
Had initial lyme symptoms late 80's, then again and with bullseye early 90's. Ended ABX for Lyme in Jan 2016. Flares ended after. Rebuilding / fine tuning / fixing muscles since then; member "10 Percenters Lyme Club". What an adventure this has been. Twenty years of Hashimoto adds to the enjoyment.

Post Edited (astroman) : 6/30/2018 2:10:13 PM (GMT-6)


Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33965
   Posted 6/30/2018 11:24 AM (GMT -6)   
That's great, astroman. Will you continue to use it for maintenance?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
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   Posted 6/30/2018 3:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie said...
That's great, astroman. Will you continue to use it for maintenance?


Yes, since I think I can still improve my spine and there is still more lower body healing to do. When I'm done, I will be in the best shape for years, not counting cardio. Cant improve old lungs that much though (to much work too ha ha).

Clam Digger
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Date Joined Jan 2018
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   Posted 7/1/2018 10:12 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi astroman,

Would the cissus capsules help with a frozen shoulder (caused by lyme disease)? If so, what brand do you recommend? Thanks, ClamDigger.

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
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   Posted 7/1/2018 11:39 AM (GMT -6)   
I never relied on cissus alone but some reviewers on Amazon did- with varying degrees of success.

You can decide of the best brand there, I just opted for a house brand a supplement store had on the shelf which is 800mg per capsule. Ive taken as much as 6 per day. Admittedly, there looks to be better ones but they're are all spendy.

I had frozen shoulder in the past (both sides 1990's) , so what I'm fixing is remnants of old injuries that never fully healed during years of lyme. But I also incorporate my own muscle and tendon release along with my own incremental workout routine in the form of self PT.

When I added cissus to my routine, I noticed a difference in tendon health vs without it. I original learned about it on fitness and lifting forums - most of those people are very in tune with muscular/structural issues.

Post Edited (astroman) : 7/1/2018 10:49:06 AM (GMT-6)


Clam Digger
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Date Joined Jan 2018
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   Posted 7/1/2018 2:11 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm getting PT at the moment. I also do yoga and band stretching for the shoulders. I'll have to try the cisssus. Thanks.

Post Edited (Clam Digger) : 7/1/2018 1:44:31 PM (GMT-6)


sandyfeet
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Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 388
   Posted 7/2/2018 9:47 AM (GMT -6)   
This is wonderful news astroman. My experience with it has been mixed, I thought it was helping and then I wasn't so sure but I guess with active lyme and bart it's harder for me to know exactly what's going on.
Bulls eye rash August 2013
Started treating with Buhner herbs July 2017
Treating Borellia, Babesia and Bartonella as of November 2017
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