Posted 4/4/2018 5:32 PM (GMT -6)
Girlie said...
Hoagie said...
Girlie said...
“Dr Jernigan says that it is strange thinking when a dr tells you that you are going to feel worse before you feel better. No where else in medicine do they use this train of thought.”

This happens with other infections as well - one being Syphilis - is known for the JH effects when treating with antibiotics.


I figured infections that resemble Borrelia would have this effect as well. I wonder how virulent Syphilis is. I understand that this effect will happen when treating. But, I have heard from a few doctors saying that the JH should be avoided if possible and is an indication of compromised detox pathways. I sited an article a couple weeks ago stating the dangers of prolonged and severe JH reactions.

I'm not saying abx isn't the right path for everyone. Just wondering if it's the right path for those wht suffer consistent and/or severe herxes.


I'm not sure we can totally avoid the herxheimer...but trying to control it is best we can do. I don't know - maybe some people don't herx....but the majority do.

Thing is - Does Dr. J. not realize that even herbs cause herxheimers...not just antibiotics?


Oh yes you can herx really bad from herbs. Some herb induced herxes are even more severe than abx induced ones.

It would be really easy to eliminate the herxheimer reactions altogether in 3 easy steps:
  • identify and isolate the endotoxins
  • hook the patient up to a dialysis machine
  • filter out the endotoxins from the blood stream

DONE. Mission accomplished. Endotoxins successfully removed from the blood stream. No endotoxins in the blood stream = no more herx reaction.

Post Edited (insomniaaa) : 4/4/2018 4:41:39 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/4/2018 5:44 PM (GMT -6)
insomniaaa said...
Girlie said...
Hoagie said...
Girlie said...
“Dr Jernigan says that it is strange thinking when a dr tells you that you are going to feel worse before you feel better. No where else in medicine do they use this train of thought.”

This happens with other infections as well - one being Syphilis - is known for the JH effects when treating with antibiotics.


I figured infections that resemble Borrelia would have this effect as well. I wonder how virulent Syphilis is. I understand that this effect will happen when treating. But, I have heard from a few doctors saying that the JH should be avoided if possible and is an indication of compromised detox pathways. I sited an article a couple weeks ago stating the dangers of prolonged and severe JH reactions.

I'm not saying abx isn't the right path for everyone. Just wondering if it's the right path for those wht suffer consistent and/or severe herxes.


I'm not sure we can totally avoid the herxheimer...but trying to control it is best we can do. I don't know - maybe some people don't herx....but the majority do.

Thing is - Does Dr. J. not realize that even herbs cause herxheimers...not just antibiotics?


Oh yes you can herx really bad from herbs. Some herb induced herxes are even more severe than abx induced ones.

It would be really easy to eliminate the herxheimer reactions altogether in 3 easy steps:
  • identify and isolate the endotoxins
  • hook the patient up to a dialysis machine
  • filter out the endotoxins from the blood stream

DONE. Mission accomplished. Endotoxins successfully removed from the blood stream. No endotoxins in blood stream = no more herx reaction.


"Surely, you can't be serious."
"I am serious. And, don't call me Shirley."

In theory, that sounds interesting. But, after all these years, if this were a viable strategy, wouldn't some doctor or researcher have thought of this by now? Or, maybe they have? Thus far, I've never heard of it.

But, it did make me wonder about people who may be carrying Lyme, are asymptomatic, and donate blood. Or, is donor blood tested for pathogens? That seems cost-prohibitive.
Posted 4/4/2018 6:31 PM (GMT -6)
Toxins aren't just in blood though. They accumulate in organs and fatty tissue as well. Or am I off base here?
Posted 4/4/2018 7:19 PM (GMT -6)
Hoagie said...
Toxins aren't just in blood though. They accumulate in organs and fatty tissue as well. Or am I off base here?


Yes they do and then are released into the bloodstream
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi
Posted 4/4/2018 7:20 PM (GMT -6)
No, you are not off base. Toxins get stored in bones, joints, connective tissues, and the lymphatic system.

www.curebiome.com/how-and-where-your-body-stores-toxins/

And I'm surely serious but don't call me Shirley, LOL!
Denise
12 years well ~ used Dr. Jernigan's protocol from his book about Biological Medicine (used Borrelogen, Microbojen and Neuro-Antitox).

I still detox even though healed and drink Green Vibrance. I come back to help others for others helped me when I was sick. Pay it forward! smile

http://javuviews.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/how-i-became-better-from-chronic-lyme
Posted 4/4/2018 8:06 PM (GMT -6)
Deejavu said...
No, you are not off base. Toxins get stored in bones, joints, connective tissues, and the lymphatic system.

www.curebiome.com/how-and-where-your-body-stores-toxins/

And I'm surely serious but don't call me Shirley, LOL!
Denise


I noticed you are drinking Green Vibrance. I got this 3 weeks on the recommendation of a Vitamin Shoppe employee. I was asking about good detox supplements, and she took me to this and said it was excellent for detox. I drink this with stevia in the evenings. This, and my green smoothies in the morning, and a vegetable heavy diet, I have been having a lot of good days. 3 weeks ago I was pretty much house bound. This past Monday I went to an aquarium and the beach. Rested up yesterday. And today went to a park and worked in my garage.

Don't get me wrong, I am spent right now and my tinnitus has kicked into high gear, but the difference between 3 weeks ago and today is like night and day.

I read up on Green Vibrance and was surprised at the different strains of probiotics in it and the count as well. Plus it has S Boulardii. This stuff is like gold. This will be a part of my daily regimen until they stop making it or I keel over.

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