BVT - is this a herx?

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oddity
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2015
Total Posts : 146
   Posted 4/5/2018 9:56 AM (GMT -6)   
Hello all,

This is a question for any members that have done BVT. I started this treatment a few weeks ago. I have only done it once a week 3-4 stings each time in order to build up my tolerance. The last two times I have been stung, two times in left lower leg, one time in right lower leg, and one time in lumbar region, I am fine for a few hours then the expected swelling begins in the regions stung. It's the next morning that I post this question in regards.

The last two times I have been stung the next morning I feel like I have the flu. My temperature rises, my whole body has an achy feeling to it. I have the constant urge to move my bowels. This morning is no different accept my temperature goes from 95 degrees f to 98 degrees f. It's crazy.

Is this a herx? Is my immune system finally waking up due to the bee venom attacking the bart and lyme in my body? Hopefully my body building immunity to the stings and this will not be an issue when I start receiving 15-20 stings 3 times a week.

As always, I appreciate any responses.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33873
   Posted 4/5/2018 2:14 PM (GMT -6)   
Oddity - I don't know about the BVT - so I'll just bump this for someone else to read and reply.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

goshawk
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 2299
   Posted 4/5/2018 5:24 PM (GMT -6)   
Bluelyme has done BVT sometimes he is on and hopefully he will see this post.

If not I would do a search putting "Lyme Bee Venom Therapy" or try BVT and see what older posts and members show up. You may be able to email them if their email is active.

oddity
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2015
Total Posts : 146
   Posted 4/5/2018 7:00 PM (GMT -6)   
I was thinking about pm Bluelyme, but I was hoping to get a response from some active members. I wait to hear from Bluelyme. I'm pretty sure this is a Herx. If it is, BVT is the best thing I have ever done!

NotQuiteAntonio
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2015
Total Posts : 1149
   Posted 4/5/2018 9:03 PM (GMT -6)   
There’s a group on Facebook as well. “Bee Venon Therapy for Lyme Disease” is the name. It’s got like 7,000 members. I’ve joined, just in case I ever decide to travel that avenue. Often, I see people posting about finding “bee buddies” with success.

It’s probably best you do it with someone who’s trained, but... you know, some play it by ear. You’re obviously already treating with that method, just saying for anyone else who happens to read this. Thought I’d mention.

edit: also, that definitely sounds herxy. I mean, I haven’t done BVT either, but I have definitely experienced similar symptoms after dosing other treatment options. Definitely, a third time... for good measure.

Post Edited (NotQuiteAntonio) : 4/5/2018 8:06:10 PM (GMT-6)


bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4898
   Posted 4/6/2018 12:35 AM (GMT -6)   
antonio pointed you to ellie lobels minions they may agree thats pretty normal .it was welcome to cold thyroid in the winter but also as the season warms up so does their venom...
we usually don't do full sting on extremities until a few months in as it takes the body time to recognize its no longer a threat, even then we pre ice ..nerves and capillaries make for a more painful sting as does how much inflammation is there already.

maybe keep dose and go to 2x a week for a while , apis homepathic helps , i had a few golfball size swelling but it was nice to have a different kind of pain .

bee venom is a very good blood thinner , we tend to be hypercoagulated so blood flows to brain bowel everywhere better

bee venom is the only substance to make your heart beat stronger and not faster ...

oddity
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2015
Total Posts : 146
   Posted 4/6/2018 9:53 AM (GMT -6)   
Thank you for the advice BlueLyme. Interesting about starting slow in the lower limbs. I have only been stung in my lower legs and lumbar region. Next time I will have him sting me in my arms and then take it slow from there. The swelling is subsiding after only 2.5 days this time so that is a good sign. Most of my issues are in my left leg now and that is where I am getting intense itchy swelling.
What a journey this has been.

borrelioburgdorferii
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 246
   Posted 4/7/2018 8:29 PM (GMT -6)   
Now I want to try BVT at some point. I thought I was allergic as a kid, then I survived a nest full of wasps. Bees have different venom I guess. Bees are on my bucket list now. Hopefully it prolongs any need for a bucket list indefinitely.
Tick bite/EM rash +10 years ago
Active, athletic, with past concussions.
1st known bite: tick infested area, flu, chills, fever, neuro symptoms.
Treat with ABX/herbs recently (2-5 years now).
Get symptom free with strict diet: paleo/keto/IM fasting
Have done Buhner's Protocol, Doxycycline, Amoxicillin, Supplements.
IgG via IgeneX 31-IND, 41++, 58+ (Sep-2016)
IgM via IgeneX 31+, 41-IND (Sep-2016)

insomniaaa
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2017
Total Posts : 173
   Posted 7/21/2018 3:11 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey oddity this sounds very similar to the episode I'm currently going through.
Do you see any similarities?
Here is my report:

/www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?r=q&f=30&m=4039772

How long did your flu like feeling last? I've been feeling like crap the entire day. I hope I'll feel better by tomorrow.
What the hell is it ? Did you figure it out yet? How often do you get this flu like reaction to BVT? Like every other session or what?
Thanks.

Hoagie
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2017
Total Posts : 799
   Posted 7/21/2018 3:22 PM (GMT -6)   
bluelyme said...
antonio pointed you to ellie lobels minions they may agree thats pretty normal .it was welcome to cold thyroid in the winter but also as the season warms up so does their venom...
we usually don't do full sting on extremities until a few months in as it takes the body time to recognize its no longer a threat, even then we pre ice ..nerves and capillaries make for a more painful sting as does how much inflammation is there already.

maybe keep dose and go to 2x a week for a while , apis homepathic helps , i had a few golfball size swelling but it was nice to have a different kind of pain .

bee venom is a very good blood thinner , we tend to be hypercoagulated so blood flows to brain bowel everywhere better

bee venom is the only substance to make your heart beat stronger and not faster ...


Hi bluelyme!

I've been doing a lot of research trying to get everything straight before I start.

I noticed that you use abx with bvt. I joined Ellie's FB page and she has an article stating why you shouldn't use abx during bvt.

Was yours a special case? Or is she off on this? I ask because I'm attempting to put a protocol together wo the use of abx. But wondering if I may need to incorporate and in the beginning of tx, or somewhere throughout? I'd be as happy as a pig in a blanket if I could heal all the while bypassing abv.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33873
   Posted 7/21/2018 11:32 PM (GMT -6)   
bump for bluelyme
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4898
   Posted 7/23/2018 12:24 AM (GMT -6)   
each of our cases is special?!?! ...which why a dogmatic "set in stone" protocol is not for eryone(we all weigh different detox divers kind)....there were some days i did 40 bees and some days i did 4 ...depending on my constitution other modalities and time of year (venom is hot in summer mild in winter) i absolutely positively could not afford any more nerve damage and i wasn't sure if it was bactrim induced vasculitis or bartonella ... after 3 months in with bvt i installed a port initially for ozone ...roceph and glutithione were cheaper....still have it

in the fb groups i read bvt worked on some bart and not on other or peeps, did good for 2 yrs let it go had a relapse ...well not ol blues bart! ....i knew a two cell wall pathogen required two or more gram negative bactericidal agents, bee venom beeing one so i always added another ...it was zith for a bit then alinia then zhangs hh2 with allicin helped a lot ...then i rifed every day for 10 months 1.5 hrs a day ...over kill? i say not(bart replicates every 24-48 hrs bvt inly 3x a week ...i had to bee sure!)

her(ellie) reasoning may not be incorrect ...i see this on the forums a lot ...i think if one had a intact gut flora and hadnt scared the bugs further into tissues with antibiotics the bvt has more of a chance to sneak up on ketes i would also say don't scare em in further and dont mess with gut till ur entirely ready to address all facets) ...also when abx are there, in theory, the spirochetes should curl up into cyst form making them harder to penatrate the outer surface protein to cause cell death ...(when i looked with microscope with 4 grams iv rocephin, the ketes weren't even phased ) extreme circumcisions calls for extreme measures tehe

tootys microscope work also verified that gram neg b.l.o. or yersina may need herbal or pharma help to really put a dent on em. there are may ways to skin a cat scratch fever

Post Edited (bluelyme) : 7/22/2018 11:28:22 PM (GMT-6)

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