band 41 (IgG & IgM)

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xsilverandcoldx
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2018
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 4/6/2018 9:57 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm so tired of being tired. I've been trying to ignore it and push past it for years but I've gotten to a breaking point and finally mentioned it to a doctor (24/7 fatigue, back pain, joint/bone pain, occasional chest pain and shortness of breath, occasional stomach pain, trouble sleeping, loss of appetite/weight loss, brain fog, depression, anxiety, etc.). I got a Lyme WB blood test done at LabCorp. Everything is negative except for band 41, both IgG and IgM are postitive. I've been trying to do some research online about it, but I just seem to get mixed information. Does it mean anything? Should I ignore it? Seeing my doctor next week to go over the results.. going to assume she'll say it's nothing. I got the feeling she thought I was a hypochondriac of sorts when I was there last asking about Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Lyme, Fibro, etc. (yeah, maybe I over googled).

I am curious though, since I also have epilepsy (at least I think I do. it's recently come to my attention that when I had my first seizure I don't remember getting any tests done to determine why. it was mostly, "seizure? epilepsy. here, take this medication". Is it at all possible something else caused it? (no need to answer that, that's a complicated question). I went off track there, sorry... I am curious, since I've been taking Dilantin for the past 13 years now, are all these symptoms merely side effects from that? The bone/joint pain has been bothering me more and more over the past couple years... I have a bone density scan scheduled at the end of the month as long term use of Dilantin can lead to osteoporosis (as well as other things).

I guess I'm just trying to figure out if how I've been feeling is due to my medication and if I need to stop complaining about it and just accept that this is how I'm going to feel.... or if it's something else. I really feel like it's something else at times (I have been bitten by multiple ticks in the past, when I was younger.. maybe even more recently and just never noticed). I could be wrong, though. Any thoughts/info/opinions are welcome and appreciated.

Post Edited (xsilverandcoldx) : 4/7/2018 1:36:17 AM (GMT-6)


Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32521
   Posted 4/6/2018 10:25 PM (GMT -6)   
Welcome, silverandcold

Band 41 is the flagella (tail) of a spirochete.
While not Lyme specific (it can be Syphillis, Pintas and Yaws and a few others) it can indeed be borrelia.

Your history of multiple tick bites along with multisystemic symptoms warrants you to seek out a LLMD.

If you want to test while waiting for your appt (it can be several weeks to get an appt with a LLMD) you can do the Igenex Lyme WB IgM and IgG for $250.
Results take 3 weeks.

Lyme can cause seizures

/kimmiecakeskickslyme.wordpress.com/2014/03/11/lyme-and-seizures/
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Post Edited (Girlie) : 4/6/2018 10:45:56 PM (GMT-6)


xsilverandcoldx
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2018
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 4/7/2018 2:06 AM (GMT -6)   
hello smile

thank you for the info! still trying to learn and understand exactly what flagella and spirochete are.. it seems highly unlikely that it'd be syfillis, pinta, or yaws. I have read that Igenex can provide more detailed results. $250 is quite a pretty penny, though. especially these days, as I only work part time specifically because my energy levels are so low (among other things) I can't handle working full time. I'd be very interested in that, but it may have to wait.

have just read that Bartonella could cause seizures as well... Bartonella being a coinfection of Lyme, correct? (still have lots to learn)
/www.envita.com/lyme-disease/bartonella-a-chronic-lyme-disease-coinfection-is-more-causing-chronic-fatigue-problems

Post Edited (xsilverandcoldx) : 4/7/2018 2:14:14 AM (GMT-6)


Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32521
   Posted 4/7/2018 2:15 AM (GMT -6)   
A spirochete is a spiral shaped bacteria.

The flagella is the tail that enables the spirochete to move.

There are a few other 'things' it could be besides syphillis, pinta, yaws. I think the dental spirochete is another.

The $250 is your best bang for your buck. It's basically the minimal test.
No coinfections included in that.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

xsilverandcoldx
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2018
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 4/7/2018 2:20 AM (GMT -6)   
I have read about the dental spirochete.. would be from dental work and infections in the mouth or teeth? not sure if that would apply to me. haven't had dental work in more than 10 years. have never had a cavity or tooth pain. *shrugs*

would a second WB test from LabCorp be a good way to go first? I've read it's possible to get false positives (or false negatives), or would you recommend going straight for the Igenex?

Post Edited (xsilverandcoldx) : 4/7/2018 2:26:25 AM (GMT-6)


Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32521
   Posted 4/7/2018 10:02 AM (GMT -6)   
If your insurance is covering the LabCorp test - wouldn’t hurt to try again.

False negatives - yes
False positives - no
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Aerose91
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 385
   Posted 4/7/2018 10:09 AM (GMT -6)   
My LLMD said pretty much everyone has band 41 due to dental bacteria. However, Girlie is right, your symptoms def warrant further investigation by a lyme doc. You may have a different tick bourne infection- bartonella, mycoplasma, chlamydia pneumonia etc..

sandyfeet
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 274
   Posted 4/7/2018 11:00 AM (GMT -6)   
When I was looking around for information on band 41 this was one of the articles that I saved - the author claims that the most common dental spirochete reacts on different bands - 38kd, 53kd and 72kd. I haven't had the energy to look into this deeper though.

http://lymemd.blogspot.ca/2008/09/all-i-got-was-41band.html

I can't remember where I read that the CDC considers band 41 specific enough to indicate exposure to borellia but not enough to confirm active infection.

Which, I guess, brings us back to the idea that lyme diagnosis is largely clinical. smile
Bulls eye rash August 2013
Started treating with Buhner herbs July 2017
Treating Borellia, Babesia and Bartonella as of November 2017

Missouri
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 334
   Posted 4/9/2018 7:38 AM (GMT -6)   
Labcorp test is not very sensitive. They test against one strain. I had a Labcorp test followed by an Igenex a week later. The Igenex picked up 3 bands that Labcorp did not.

I don't think you should waste any more time with Labcorp and just get an Igenex.

Some doctors do not like to sign off on Igenex tests. You may need to make an appt with an LLMD. I think that would be wise anyway.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32521
   Posted 4/9/2018 11:28 AM (GMT -6)   
Missouri said...
Labcorp test is not very sensitive. They test against one strain. I had a Labcorp test followed by an Igenex a week later. The Igenex picked up 3 bands that Labcorp did not.

I don't think you should waste any more time with Labcorp and just get an Igenex.

Some doctors do not like to sign off on Igenex tests. You may need to make an appt with an LLMD. I think that would be wise anyway.


The reason I said Labcorp - worth a second try - is because her insurance is covering...no harm done.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

xsilverandcoldx
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2018
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 4/9/2018 12:02 PM (GMT -6)   
really appreciate everyone's input and quick responses here <3

my insurance does cover LabCorp tests, but my doctor did seem hesitant giving me a lab request for lyme (not sure if specifically because it'd be from LabCorp, or just in general), saying "the tests aren't always accurate. somebody fully diagnosed with lyme could get tested and still get negative results."

correct me if I'm wrong here about how Igenex works... I order a kit from them online, ask my doctor for a lab request, bring the test kit and request to LabCorp, have them take my blood, but instead of them keeping it, mail it off to Igenex? almost seems a bit rude to LabCorp. ha! "hi, I'd like you to draw my blood but I don't want you to analyze it. k, thanks. bye" lol. assuming Igenex will send me a bill after they receive it? also assuming I'd owe LabCorp something for their service, but perhaps insurance will cover that.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32521
   Posted 4/9/2018 12:43 PM (GMT -6)   
xsilverandcoldx said...
really appreciate everyone's input and quick responses here <3

my insurance does cover LabCorp tests, but my doctor did seem hesitant giving me a lab request for lyme (not sure if specifically because it'd be from LabCorp, or just in general), saying "the tests aren't always accurate. somebody fully diagnosed with lyme could get tested and still get negative results."

correct me if I'm wrong here about how Igenex works... I order a kit from them online, ask my doctor for a lab request, bring the test kit and request to LabCorp, have them take my blood, but instead of them keeping it, mail it off to Igenex? almost seems a bit rude to LabCorp. ha! "hi, I'd like you to draw my blood but I don't want you to analyze it. k, thanks. bye" lol. assuming Igenex will send me a bill after they receive it? also assuming I'd owe LabCorp something for their service, but perhaps insurance will cover that.


You take the Igenex lab request to labcorp (after your dr signs it) for the blood draw.
Unless your Dr office has someone there to do the blood draw.

I think that’s what you do - here in Canada I went to a ND and she did the blood draw and sent it to Igenex.

Then when my husband was tested he went to a private lab and I think they charged for the blood draw.

I gave Igenex my visa # to pay for it. (I think it was on the form)
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1664
   Posted 4/9/2018 1:20 PM (GMT -6)   
xsilverandcoldx said...

my insurance does cover LabCorp tests, but my doctor did seem hesitant giving me a lab request for lyme (not sure if specifically because it'd be from LabCorp, or just in general), saying "the tests aren't always accurate. somebody fully diagnosed with lyme could get tested and still get negative results."


If your doctor said that about the Labcorp WB, your doctor is right and knows more than most.

To answer your initial questions:

Does it (band 41) mean anything? Answer: Yes

Should I ignore it (symptoms and positive band 41)? Answer: No. Symptoms will continue to get worse.

What your symptoms likely indicate IMO: Lyme and bartonella, possibly more coinfections

Things to consider:

You mentioned $250 was a lot for you to swing for the Igenex test, so I'm going to give you a heads up and some ideas to think about before starting on this road.

FACT:
Treatment for Lyme disease can get very expensive and can last a long time. Expect a minimum of a year. Everyone thinks they won't need treatment that long, but it seems most take even longer, especially if multiple coinfections are present.

FACT:
Most, but not all, Lyme literate doctors (LLMD) don't take insurance and can be expensive. They can charge far more per hour than the cost of an Igenex test.

TREATMENT OPTIONS:
* antibiotics (best done under an LLMD who keeps up with latest ILADS treatments and is well versed in identifying and treating coinfections)

* herbal protocols such as Buhner, Zhang, Cowden, Rawls' Vital Plan, Jernigan, Byron White (can be done alone or with antibiotics, full or partial protocols, with or without an LLMD)

* other alternative medicine such as rife, HBOT, homeopathy and more (anything involving equipment tends to be expensive and rarely is curative as a sole means of treatment from my understanding)

RECOMMENDED READING:

Unlocking Lyme by Bill Rawls
Healing Lyme 2nd edition and the coinfection books by Stephen Harrod Buhner

xsilverandcoldx
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2018
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 4/16/2018 2:23 PM (GMT -6)   
update: had a doctors visit friday to go over my results. my doctor seemed just as confused about it. I sat for about 5 mins while she (I can only assume) was trying to research what it meant on the computer. eventually she said she'd just call me when she knew more. she called at the end of the day, but I missed the call. she left a message saying something along the lines of I probably don't have lyme, there are antibodies that resemble it, but not enough to call it lyme, and to call her back monday if I want to discuss it more. I called this morning, left a message, got a call back a couple hours later, but it only rang twice before the call stopped and I didn't have time to answer. really don't feel like calling back and playing phone tag.

any thoughts on this? I personally feel like it's a bit quick to dismiss it after only one test, especially when there was confusion about it.. am I wrong? should I just drop it?

sierraDon
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2016
Total Posts : 184
   Posted 4/16/2018 2:33 PM (GMT -6)   
personally, i would try one of the reputable labs like MDL or Igenex before closing the door on the Lyme test. Chain labs are notoriously unreliable. I tested negative by them for almost two years after 5 or 6 tests before coming up positive at MDL and Igenex.

MDL maybe a little cheaper than $250, i think you can get Lyme WB and C6 Peptide for less than that.

Glascis
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2017
Total Posts : 49
   Posted 4/17/2018 11:13 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi xsilverandcoldx and welcome.

Have you taken a look at the Horowitz MSIDS questionnaire? Google and you can easily find it online for free. Since finances are an issue, perhaps before you commit to the lab tests, try the questionnaire which I have heard is an excellent screening tool for tickborne illness.

xsilverandcoldx
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2018
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 4/18/2018 12:10 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for that info Glascis! Took the test and scored 55...

"A score of 46 or more suggests you have a high probability of a tick-borne disorder and should see a health-care provider for further evaluation."

hm....

xsilverandcoldx
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2018
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 5/2/2018 12:43 PM (GMT -6)   
I just found a tick in my room. asdfghjkl!! think ima go ahead and order that Igenex test... honestly was probably going to ignore it but this feels like a sign. lol

Looking at the prices here: /igenex.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/IGenex-PriceSheet-2.pdf

much more expensive than I thought! wow! there are some individual tests listed for more affordable prices, but I'm lost on which to get. would like to know before hand so my doctor doesn't order a crapload without knowing the prices and I get sucked into a black hole of debt.

those who have gotten an Igenex test: what tests did you have done that were around the $250 price range?

Post Edited (xsilverandcoldx) : 5/2/2018 2:30:22 PM (GMT-6)


Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32521
   Posted 5/2/2018 1:47 PM (GMT -6)   
The Lyme WB IgM and IgG costs $250 total.


That’s what many people get.


They do have two new tests similar to Armin lab tests: inmunoblot and IGXSpot.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi
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