Does Buhner write about mast cells at all?

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Aerose91
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   Posted 4/14/2018 12:41 PM (GMT -6)   
I have his bartonella/mycoplasma book and he doesn't mention it in there. Does he at all in the lyme or babesia books? I'm curious what if anything he says about mast cell activation

goshawk
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Date Joined Sep 2016
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   Posted 4/14/2018 3:06 PM (GMT -6)   
Im not sure but have you seen this it may be of interest to you.


/jhoonline.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1756-8722-4-10


/www.lymedisease.org/lyme-sci-mcas-agony/



its from lymedisease.org

Aerose91
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   Posted 4/14/2018 3:33 PM (GMT -6)   
Ive read those actually. My doc has me on antihistamines but they do next to nothing. I was wondering if there are any herbs to try outside of vitamin C and quercetin

Fronton
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   Posted 4/14/2018 4:45 PM (GMT -6)   
What are your symptoms? I have been on Zyrtec quite awhile and it definitely helps.

Girlie
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   Posted 4/14/2018 5:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Fronton said...
What are your symptoms? I have been on Zyrtec quite awhile and it definitely helps.


Is that prescription only?

I think the NP suggested I take that as well as Benadryl - I think Benadryl at night and the Zyrtec in the morning
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

goshawk
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Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 2291
   Posted 4/14/2018 5:14 PM (GMT -6)   
Take a look at this and scroll down to # 7 Stephania root


www.klinghardtacademy.com/images/stories/lyme/Herbs_used_in_treating_Lyme.pdf

This may be one herbal that helps

Fronton
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Date Joined Sep 2014
Total Posts : 443
   Posted 4/14/2018 6:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie said...
Fronton said...
What are your symptoms? I have been on Zyrtec quite awhile and it definitely helps.


Is that prescription only?

I think the NP suggested I take that as well as Benadryl - I think Benadryl at night and the Zyrtec in the morning


No, not in US anyway. It used to be, though. I take 10mg.
Why does the NP have you taking it?

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33785
   Posted 4/14/2018 7:32 PM (GMT -6)   
I think it was for my nerves - they’re always ramped up - its like I’m always getting adrenaline rushes - shivers down my spine.
Plus nerve pain - maybe she thinks it’s inflammation in the CNS..and the antihistamines may help?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

mpost
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Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1527
   Posted 4/15/2018 2:21 AM (GMT -6)   
there is a flurry of enthusiasm with this MCAS recently. All chronic lyme patients that have taken years of antibiotics and still have symptoms should probably be tested for MCAS

lymemd.blogspot.com/2018/04/lyme-babesia-mcas-fms-cfs-disordered.html

/www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFZ4xnYJqVw

stephania is good for eye itchiness and i guess that can be histamine mediated effect, very common with MCAS.

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33785
   Posted 4/15/2018 3:38 AM (GMT -6)   
Would I have mcas without any respiratory issues, or rashes...no food allergies/reactions?

Maybe I should get some Quercetin and the anti-histamines and do a trial for a few weeks...
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Aerose91
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Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 533
   Posted 4/15/2018 7:37 AM (GMT -6)   
My symptoms are many.

Severe 24/7 dissociation
Inability to feel anything; emotions, connection, time. passage, placement in the world
Near total short term memory loss
Irritability, often to the point of rage
Confusion to the point of psychosis
Amnesia
Strong exercise intolerance
Heat, cold intolerance
Adrenal insufficiency

Tbh i have many, many more symptoms bit i can't process them atm because I'm too confused

I have only tested positive for bartonella so i took Buhner's bartonella and lyme protocol for 9 months at very high doses. I had some die off in the beginning with the bart herbs but had no improvement ever. My current doc thinks it's because of mast cell activation so he put me on Xyzal, Singulair and Pepcid. However, they do very little if anything. Nothing in 7 years has been able to touch any of the symptoms in my brain

WalkingbyFaith
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Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1988
   Posted 4/15/2018 10:32 AM (GMT -6)   
I just came across this article today from Jill Carnahan. You may have already seen it. Just thought I'd post it here in case you find anything helpful in it. She has links to other related articles at the end.

/www.google.com/amp/s/www.jillcarnahan.com/2016/10/31/mast-cell-activation-syndrome-mcas-when-histamine-goes-haywire/amp/

Aerose91
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Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 533
   Posted 4/15/2018 12:07 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks, Walking

I have read that, actually. I feel like I've read every article on the internet about it at this point. Haven't been able to find anything mentioned by Buhner, though

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33785
   Posted 4/15/2018 12:39 PM (GMT -6)   
I did a quick search on the HealingLyme website that has questions that Buhner has answered.

I couldn’t find anything on Mast Cells.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

cakegirl
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Date Joined Nov 2016
Total Posts : 261
   Posted 5/17/2018 2:19 PM (GMT -6)   
I know this post is old but Buhner does talk about mast cells and histamine. Histamine reducing remedies are in his Lyme book. He also talks about it in this radio interview about 50 minutes in:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIRzVI5vdb8

We aren't able to try to treat Lyme at all because of severe mast cell reactions. High histamine from foods, stress, supplements causes extreme confusion and disorientation. Also, it took us over a month to see the cumulative benefits of Claritin and other antihistamines. But she still has reactions...

mpost
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Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1527
   Posted 5/17/2018 3:03 PM (GMT -6)   
all bartonella herbs help calm down mast cells. i am not certain these herbs actually kill bart or stop an autoimmune allergic mast cell release. probably a bit of both

articles showing houttuynia stops mast cell activation
/www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bpb/28/10/28_10_1864/_article/-char/ja/
/www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278691509001732

stephania was mentioned here too. it seems is especially useful for eye inflammations.

vitanmin C in really hi doses stops MCAS .

indolinone extracted from isatis tinctoria blocks mast cells degranulation
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20347971

alchornea is anti inflammatory too, although i have not found studies about mast cells.


so yeah ... there's something funny about these mast cells releases and "bart". Im not sure if we treat bart or some overzealous immune system with angry mast cells, or both ... probably both...

cakegirl
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Date Joined Nov 2016
Total Posts : 261
   Posted 5/17/2018 3:09 PM (GMT -6)   
Unfortunately, she isn't able to take any herbs. Everything we've tried causes extreme reactions of confusion including some basic vitamins. It is a really difficult condition to have. And no doctor ever had a clue that her reactions were from high histamine till someone in the forum suggested MCAD.

We never tried Houtt. Maybe we'll give it go.

I feel like her MCAD was triggered by certain products that various practitioners recommended.

mpost
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Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1527
   Posted 5/17/2018 3:11 PM (GMT -6)   
interesting vlog about mcas vs bart

/youtu.be/5ng5f4hCPkU

WalkingbyFaith
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Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1988
   Posted 5/17/2018 3:13 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm curious if any of the folks with mast cell issues have used Jernigan's Anti-Tox CNS/PNS formula, and if so were helped by it.

cakegirl
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Date Joined Nov 2016
Total Posts : 261
   Posted 5/17/2018 3:20 PM (GMT -6)   
Interesting video. Anti-histamines made a huge difference for us also but she still has reactions. We ordered powdered cromolyn. The liquid is $1400 a month, which is crazy. I have read that it can take some months to know the full effect of these type drugs.

But I wonder sometimes whether MCAD is her main disease. One of the Buhner herbalists told us that her lab-work looked too good for Lyme. I just don't know anymore. But we'll never be able to try to treat Lyme if the MCAD isn't controlled.

cakegirl
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Date Joined Nov 2016
Total Posts : 261
   Posted 5/17/2018 3:23 PM (GMT -6)   
WalkingbyFaith said...
I'm curious if any of the folks with mast cell issues have used Jernigan's Anti-Tox CNS/PNS formula, and if so were helped by it.


We never tried this product but I suspect that her mast cell issues were triggered by products that move heavy metals around.

Fronton
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Date Joined Sep 2014
Total Posts : 443
   Posted 5/17/2018 3:54 PM (GMT -6)   
The cephalosporin class of abx are associated with DAO degradation and that causes histamine issues. I believe that is how I acquired my histamine issue. I don’t have full blown mcas, but do have high histamine. I am switching abx because of this. Has she been on long term abx?

cakegirl
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Date Joined Nov 2016
Total Posts : 261
   Posted 5/17/2018 4:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Fronton said...
The cephalosporin class of abx are associated with DAO degradation and that causes histamine issues. I believe that is how I acquired my histamine issue. I don’t have full blown mcas, but do have high histamine. I am switching abx because of this. Has she been on long term abx?


No, she never did long term antibiotics. Her MCAD appears to be triggered by products which moved around heavy metals.

Aerose91
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Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 533
   Posted 5/17/2018 4:44 PM (GMT -6)   
Antihistamines have done next to nothing for me. The only thing that has helped ever so slightly is inositol. Still, Dr M says i need a lot more mast cell stabilization so they are going to put me on the most intensive protocol; dexamethasone, ritalin and another drug i forgot. I get the intense confusion, rage and paranoia, too. Eating is a big culprit but nothing effects me more than my environment. A hot, humid day with pollen and I'm hallucinating out of my mind and waking up in the woods that night due to night terrors. MCAS sucks

I'm doing ok on the bartonella abx (clarithromycin and rifampin) but after 4 months there has been no improvement. I can't tolerate a single Buhner herb anymore so i can't try to add anything

Post Edited (Aerose91) : 5/17/2018 3:47:13 PM (GMT-6)


Fronton
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Date Joined Sep 2014
Total Posts : 443
   Posted 5/17/2018 5:12 PM (GMT -6)   
cakegirl said...
Fronton said...
The cephalosporin class of abx are associated with DAO degradation and that causes histamine issues. I believe that is how I acquired my histamine issue. I don’t have full blown mcas, but do have high histamine. I am switching abx because of this. Has she been on long term abx?


No, she never did long term antibiotics. Her MCAD appears to be triggered by products which moved around heavy metals.


Can you elaborate in regards to those products that move metals around?
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