Please send articles/studies that show long term antibiotics don't work

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Sean.scott787
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2016
Total Posts : 287
   Posted 4/18/2018 1:09 PM (GMT -6)   
I was on antibiotics for over 2 years without any progress. Since being off of them I've gotten much worse over the last year and can no longer take them due to the severe GI damage they caused.

My parents think I don't have lyme anymore since I took antibiotics. I'm looking for articles and studies that I can show them to prove that long term antibiotics often don't work for chronic lyme. I know there are several but I'm having trouble finding them. If you can post licks down below I would appreciate it.

Thank you

ChickenArise
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 1530
   Posted 4/18/2018 5:40 PM (GMT -6)   
I dont know if you are going to be able to obtain more than rhetorical accounts where they didnt work. There are plenty of these. Yet it is the go to treatment from doctors so I dont think the medical establishment is going to publish much in the way of what you want.

about the best I can do is show what the outer surface protein A (OspA) shed by Borellia does to the immune system which almost assures that a coinfection will occur.

The antibiotics work on some of the coinfections but not always. Borellia blebs and forms happy and tiny little new undetectable borellia 'seeds' that regrow and repeat the process over again. Borellia is technically not a bacteria but of the spirochete phylum so maybe that is why it fails. Similar to the way Babesia is technically a parasite but often gets grouped with bacteria.

OspA is a fungal antigen so you may have more success with treating the disease from a fungal angle or a whole spectrum angle like ozone or chlorine dioxide.

/badlymeattitude.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/fungus.pdf

EDIT: A member just posted this in another thread. I hope it helps:
www.prweb.com/releases/2018/04/prweb15413734.htm

2014 Mold Sick,2015 Clinical Lyme and co.,2016 Morgellons,2017 Remission
YT: ClintFromNYtoVA2
Twitter: @ClintFromNYtoVA
Blog: www.fascinatingtimetobealive.blogspot.com/
" The path to disappointment is paved with expectations "

Post Edited (ChickenArise) : 4/18/2018 5:18:41 PM (GMT-6)


goshawk
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 2305
   Posted 4/18/2018 6:05 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi, there are parents on here at different times.

Some of them have Lyme and co, but some of them are treating one or more of their children for Lyme and co. also.

Maybe you could start a new post and reach out to them. Then, possibly your parents could ask some questions or correspond with them and it would help them to understand your Lyme illness better.

That way you would hopefully get the proper care that you need to help you get to remission.

Hope everything works out for you , take care.

TBDmom
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2018
Total Posts : 2
   Posted 4/18/2018 9:45 PM (GMT -6)   
I have a packet of approximately 500 references of researcher article showing persistence. Look up researcher by Zhang at Hopkins he has done research on persisters that may be helpful.

mpost
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1527
   Posted 4/19/2018 5:56 AM (GMT -6)   
gold standard is randomized double blind placebo controlled trial, and there is one since 2016

www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1505425

however pls note they never use combinations:

"
Of the 281 patients who underwent randomization, 280 were included in the modified intention-to-treat analysis (86 patients in the doxycycline group, 96 in the clarithromycin–hydroxychloroquine group, and 98 in the placebo group)."

well good luck in treating TB with just rifampin, without anything else. i wonder if you can cure one single guy...

note: TB is officially treated with 3-4 antibiotics for 6+ months.


so ... my conclusion there are no trials with combined antibiotic treatments for lyme disease. Tens of thousands of people treated for decades, with a treatment there is not one single trial for ... awesome or what ?

I wonder why do we have states and governments for ... to collect taxes, right ? :D

Deejavu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4442
   Posted 4/19/2018 5:59 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Sean.scott256,

I doubt you will find articles by conventional doctors since they prescribe antibiotics and big pharma makes the money. There are articles written by alternative medicine doctors but I don't know how open minded your parents are.

Below is one article about antibiotics:

www.townsendletter.com/April2007/antibioticlyme0407.htm

That said, if I were in your shoes I would be more worried about the damage to your gut and how to heal it (there are many articles explaining how such as drinking bone broth, etc.).

Also, there is a chance after taking abx for 2 years that you may have killed most of the lyme bacteria (research shows it is impossible to kill ALL lyme bacteria). What you may be feeling is the result of toxins that are left over from killing the bacteria and the only way for you to find that out is to start a detox protocol. When toxins are NOT removed from your body, brain, bones, etc. they keep circulating causing more damage.

Article about toxins and the damage they cause:

www.benbrew.com/lb/lyme5.pdf

I don't know if you have been detoxing and I don't mean taking supplements or drinking lemon water. I'm talking about detox baths (Epsom salts mixed with hydrogen peroxide) daily, dry skin brushing before bath, foot baths, and even coffee enemas. Infrared sauna's help as well.

I'm hoping you will switch to an herbal protocol as that may help.

Hope this helps a bit and that you find your path to healing,
Denise
12 years well ~ used Dr. Jernigan's protocol from his book about Biological Medicine (used Borrelogen, Microbojen and Neuro-Antitox).

I still detox even though healed and drink Green Vibrance. I come back to help others for others helped me when I was sick. Pay it forward! smile

http://javuviews.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/how-i-became-better-from-chronic-lyme

Psilociraptor
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2016
Total Posts : 1355
   Posted 4/19/2018 6:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Best ones are the following by Monica Embers. The two studies are a pair on the same research. What she basically showed is no difference between untreated controls or rhesus monkeys and treated monkeys. Both harbored spirochetes

http://ajp.amjpathol.org/article/S0002-9440(17)30894-5/abstract

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0189071

If you browse the references at the bottom of each you will find more studies. But these are the most recent and best imo. If you look up Emil Hodzic Borrelia he has done some great ones with mice. Showing that spirochetes start growing again months after stopping treatment. There are very few human studies but here are some where treated patients were culture positive. Note two patients were culture positive after 9 months of doxy

http://www.clinicalmicrobiologyandinfection.com/article/S1198-743X(15)00991-X/abstract

Here's a new one on humans as well
http://www.mdpi.com/2227-9032/6/2/33

1000Daisies
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2016
Total Posts : 2474
   Posted 4/22/2018 9:08 AM (GMT -6)   
Well, I don't need links for us because we are LIVING it. Despite Kid#1 being on long term abx (years and years), he still tested positive for lyme bacteria in his blood via Advanced Labs testing. sad

I am extremely sorry your parents aren't supportive!

But let me find a couple of links I can pull up for you/your parents...
Kid#1: Extremely sick for several years, very difficult to treat, but doing great now!
Kid#2: Still sick now despite being treated for years but doing better (not well yet).
Kid#3: Generally good but relapsing off/on.
Me: Adv Labs positive 2016 (suspected I passed to my kids)-not as sick as others, mostly battling fatigue and yeast issues (heart/kidney issues resolved)
Treating with herbals now.

1000Daisies
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2016
Total Posts : 2474
   Posted 4/22/2018 9:11 AM (GMT -6)   
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8006888
OBJECTIVE:
To determine chronic morbidity and the variables that influence recovery in patients who had been treated for Lyme disease.
CONCLUSION:
Despite recognition and treatment, Lyme disease is associated with significant infectious and postinfectious sequelae.

/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11450676?dopt=Abstract
BACKGROUND:
It is controversial whether prolonged antibiotic treatment is effective for patients in whom symptoms persist after the recommended antibiotic treatment for acute Lyme disease.
CONCLUSIONS:
There is considerable impairment of health-related quality of life among patients with persistent symptoms despite previous antibiotic treatment for acute Lyme disease. However, in these two trials, treatment with intravenous and oral antibiotics for 90 days did not improve symptoms more than placebo.
Kid#1: Extremely sick for several years, very difficult to treat, but doing great now!
Kid#2: Still sick now despite being treated for years but doing better (not well yet).
Kid#3: Generally good but relapsing off/on.
Me: Adv Labs positive 2016 (suspected I passed to my kids)-not as sick as others, mostly battling fatigue and yeast issues (heart/kidney issues resolved)
Treating with herbals now.
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