Buhner herbs and insomnia?

New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> ]

sandyfeet
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 285
   Posted 4/20/2018 7:03 AM (GMT -6)   
I'm strongly suspecting that my current insomnia is caused by one or more of the herbs that I'm currently taking. Top of the suspect list for me is Rhodiola and then Sida. Neither of these caused problems initially when added but I've been taking them at full dose for a while and I suspect that is the issue. I do take Eleuthro on and off - not consistently and I've been mindful to only take it in the morning so I'm not eyeing this one yet.

Anyone else notice insomnia as a side effect of any of the Buhner herbs? Any other culprits I should be trialing out?

Thanks for any experiences or thoughts with this.

sandyfeet
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 285
   Posted 4/20/2018 7:19 AM (GMT -6)   
My insomnia resolved really well initially when I started treating Bartonella and Babesia. I recently discovered that I am now sensitive to Valerian which I used nicely over the last 3 years. I'd stopped taking it when the insomnia resolved but tried it out several times over the last few weeks only to discover that it now gives me a stimulant effect - sigh. So I'm suspecting an adaptation to some of the other herbs as well.

I'm the sort of person who can't have any caffeine after noon so I'm quite sensitive to stimulants I guess. I'e been trying to take my evening tincture dose before 5pm.
Bulls eye rash August 2013
Started treating with Buhner herbs July 2017
Treating Borellia, Babesia and Bartonella as of November 2017

cppoly
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts : 345
   Posted 4/20/2018 7:35 AM (GMT -6)   
sandyfeet, how bad was your insomnia prior to taking the buhner herbs?

What was your improvement like and how long did it take?

sandyfeet
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 285
   Posted 4/20/2018 8:43 AM (GMT -6)   
My insomnia was one of my worst symptoms - it alternated between being awake for long periods of time and that sort of constant light dream state where you're not really sure if you're asleep or awake. I briefly used a fitbit to track how many sleep cycles (if any) I was getting and most of the time that was zero.

As far as I can tell from my notes the sleep improved to the point where I was getting 2 or 3 full sleep cycles a night within a week of reaching the full doses for the babesia and bartonella protocol. I was taking most of the protocol but not quite all of it. I stopped tracking my sleep after a few weeks of that. That was October / November. Somewhere around Jan or February my sleep started deteriorating again but I kept making excuses why it was a less than good night and I'm pretty good at coping by now so I just let it slide smile

It's frustrating having to pick through my protocol and see if I can find a culprit as I feel like I'm very close to the end game now. Many of my worst symptoms have resolved or softened significantly and I don't want to risk back-sliding by taking out anything important. On the other hand maybe this is a sign that it's time to start backing off on my doses significantly and that I can switch to something more like a maintenance protocol.

Sigh - it sure would be nice if we had clear ways to know whats up rather than having to always rely on intuition, guess work and experimentation.

cppoly
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts : 345
   Posted 4/20/2018 9:06 AM (GMT -6)   
Can you post your Buhner babesia and bartonella protocol that helped you improve your sleep.

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1682
   Posted 4/20/2018 9:07 AM (GMT -6)   
Don't take rhodiola at night. I take it twice a day. One capsule in the morning and one with the afternoon herbs. Rhodiola is a stimulant that Buhner says can be substituted in place of eleuthero. I would not take rhodiola and eleuthero together - one or the other. Eleuthero is purportedly the most stimulating of the two.

I initially had some issues taking ashwaganda at night. I would take it with the other herbs around 8:30 and it would make me sleepy a half hour to an hour later. By the time I would get to bed, it would wear off and I would feel stimulated. I kept taking it though, and my body adjusted pretty quickly.

I haven't noticed sida affecting my sleep, but I was only taking 4 drops.

sandyfeet
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 285
   Posted 4/20/2018 9:15 AM (GMT -6)   
Sure cppoly smile

For Babesia I've been taking the following from Buhner's protocol
- Cryptolepsis
- Sida Acuta
- Bidens pilosa (this one I've used inconsistently)
- Salvia miltiorrhiza
- Ashwaganda

For Bartonella
- Knotweed
- Cordyceps
- Sida Acuta
- Red Root
- Milk Thistle
- Hawthorn
- Ashwaganda and Rhodiola
- Isatis (this one on 3 weeks, off 1 week)
- Houttuynia
- Alchornea
- all in Pomegranate juice
- NAC and Quercetin

That's most but not all of what's on Buhner's two protocols. I've since decided that Schisandra might be beneficial to prevent reinfection of the blood cells but that is a recent addition for me.

I also found the addition of magnesium at night helpful.

Hope you're able to see some improvement. Insomnia is one of the hardest symptoms imho.

sandyfeet
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 285
   Posted 4/20/2018 1:23 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks WalkingByFaith, somehow your reply didn't show up for me earlier so I missed it.

Rhodiola was initially a wonderful levelling herb for me - I was cautious with it at first but it certainly acted as a calming adaptogen at the start. I've decided to cut it out completely for now. I hadn't noticed problems with Ashwagandha, I started using it before I had lyme for insomnia and I'm never sure it helped much either way - I'm going to take it out and re-add it after a short break and watch it carefully as well.

Eleuthro - I've used this cautiously on and off. I've never noticed anything one way or another which is why I keep dropping it. I've taken it out of the list as well.

Sida has a minuscule amount of ephedra in it and since I'm seeming to be sensitive to anything stimulating, I'm putting it in the timeout list as well. I was a little nervous about that but reading through the list of everything I'm hoping that alchornea is sufficiently protective of red blood cells that I can take a break and then see if this can be a morning and lunch sort of herb.

I read one study a while back that showed a link between crypto and sleep disturbances in rats so I'm going to take this as a pulsed herb for a while instead as Buhner has a suggestion of 5 days on and 14 off.

I'm actually happy to have a slightly reduced protocol for a while as I also opted to take out red root and cordyceps for the time being for other reasons as I'm feeling pretty well covered.

Wish me luck for sweet dreams again soon. smile
Bulls eye rash August 2013
Started treating with Buhner herbs July 2017
Treating Borellia, Babesia and Bartonella as of November 2017
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
Forum Information
Currently it is Sunday, June 24, 2018 8:49 AM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 2,974,699 posts in 326,201 threads.
View Active Threads


Who's Online
This forum has 161300 registered members. Please welcome our newest member, Snooks11.
367 Guest(s), 7 Registered Member(s) are currently online.  Details
Balladeer, tarhoosier, amafi, JNF, Andrina, White Bird, Old Mike