Bartonella protocol and cordyceps

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KYLEb23
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 78
   Posted 4/21/2018 11:38 AM (GMT -6)   
Is cordyceps absolutely essential to Stephen buhner's Bart protocol? I've found it to be too stimulating for me and don't feel comfortable pushing myself artificially like coffee. I have AF so I have to be careful with some things. I'm taking iha ,csa ( for sida Acura / couldn't find plain from woodland essence) , Japanese knotweed, Chinese skullcap, and Hawthorne. How's the protocol look? Also for combination tinctures like csa , will my Max dose be more than the reccomended so I can get the recommended sida acuta?

sandyfeet
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 386
   Posted 4/21/2018 3:07 PM (GMT -6)   
I try to avoid the combo tinctures when I can as you'll have to be careful with the dosing and you won't know what is causing what if you have any reactions. You're getting Alchornea twice in there and you probably want to take breaks from the Isatis if you ever get up to higher doses on it. Buhner recommends elsewhere in his book 3 weeks on and 1 week off for isatis if you choose to use it at full dose.

Buhner lists cordyceps as beneficial for NF-xB and VEGF (pg 342-3) but he also lists knotweed and chinese skullcap in the same categories so cordyceps probably isn't essential just beneficial. If it's bothering you it should be fine to exclude it imho.

You might want to add the quercertin and I see you're skipping the rhodiola and ashwaganda which he recommends for raising CD4 levels but if you're finding cordyceps stimulating these two might be problematic for you as well.

Alchornea is also protective of red blood cells if I remember correctly so that might be fine if you're not getting the full dose of sida. I would go slow with CSA as the crypto can hit babesia as well.

What is AF by the way?
Bulls eye rash August 2013
Started treating with Buhner herbs July 2017
Treating Borellia, Babesia and Bartonella as of November 2017

KYLEb23
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 78
   Posted 4/21/2018 3:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Alright wow . It just blows my mind how supportive you and everyone else on this board really are. Thanks so much. Is there a reason for the 1 week off with isatis?

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33957
   Posted 4/21/2018 3:55 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm thinking AF = Atrial Fibrillation?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

sandyfeet
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 386
   Posted 4/21/2018 3:56 PM (GMT -6)   
High and prolonged doses of Isatis is a stress on the kidneys. Do you have Buhner's bartonella book? on pg 169 he states "caution should be exercised in long-term use. Normally you would not take isatis for longer than three weeks. This should be sufficient to deal with anything you have, especially if you have combined the herb with any to the others in this book. You can, if you wish, take a break, and then begin again after a week or ten days off."

I've found Isatis to be very strong for me. I usually don't take it for more than two weeks at a time and I take a full two weeks off again. (doing things in week long increments works best for my lyme brain lol).

I've always been confused why IHA is sold together as a result. I take Houttuynia and Alchornea continuously.

This really is a wonderful group! Wishing you much healing on your journey Kyleb23. smile

Girlie - Ah yes that makes sense. Thanks!

KYLEb23
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 78
   Posted 4/21/2018 5:10 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks. Af stands for adrenal fatigue in my case.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33957
   Posted 4/21/2018 6:12 PM (GMT -6)   
KYLEb23 said...
Thanks. Af stands for adrenal fatigue in my case.


lol - well I guessed wrong.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Rikky1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2925
   Posted 4/21/2018 7:57 PM (GMT -6)   
>>Normally you would not take isatis for longer than three weeks. This should be sufficient to deal with anything you have, especially if you have combined the herb with any to the others in this book.

i love buhner but i find the above statement and many other similar ones in his books to be overly optimistic that these herbs will knock out these infections fairly quickly. reality is much different my own anecdotal travels shows most don't clear these infections anywhere near what he says if at all.

sandyfeet
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 386
   Posted 4/21/2018 8:09 PM (GMT -6)   
Yeah, I hear you Rikky1 - is it the babesia protocol that is 30-60 days (repeat if necessary). I'm still working on being sure I've cleared that after almost 6 months.

With this comment on isatis it's in the material medica section and I think it's a general comment on isatis's effect rather than anything specific to the protocol. I certainly noticed that if I was at risk for coming down with anything while I was on isatis it was gone before I could so much as sneeze a second time. I'm definitely keeping this one in the tincture pantry for future use. smile

I do find there's a disconnect between his section on the herb and his use in the protocol. I like to go over everything in his books very very carefully because sometimes things like this can be tucked in odd corners.
Bulls eye rash August 2013
Started treating with Buhner herbs July 2017
Treating Borellia, Babesia and Bartonella as of November 2017
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