Dr Jernigan - Cure Vs Remission

New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> ]

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32667
   Posted 4/22/2018 11:11 AM (GMT -6)   
davidjernigan.blogspot.ca/2010/07/am-i-cured-or-am-i-in-remission.html


Your thoughts?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Hoagie
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2017
Total Posts : 619
   Posted 4/22/2018 11:41 AM (GMT -6)   
I completely subscribe to Dr Jernigan's train of thought.

It was either him or Stephen Buhner that stated something like, (and I paraphrase) much like plants, as we have evolved, the human body's immune system has developed processes and antibacterial and antiviral properties to deal with infections. That is what makes herbs so powerful. When our body is overrun with harmful pathogens for whatever reason, we use the properties that healthy plants have developed over time to help combat these pathogens.

Modern antibiotics have been around a very very short time compared to the properties developed in plants and fine tuned over the history of time to deal with virulent microbes and viruses. This is why bacteria becomes resistant to abx over time. Microbes are smart and and evolve and adapt to newly, synthetic drugs. Abx are not smart. They are not even living.

What I like about Dr Jernigan's ideology is that he looks to repair the body so it can do it's proper function in restoring the processes to effectively deal with virulent pathogens.

I just wish I would have studied up on this sooner.

astroman
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 4880
   Posted 4/22/2018 11:50 AM (GMT -6)   
I buzzed through this. Did I miss some key points? What he saying? Most of us here understand remission.

Does Dr J cure people or put them in remission? I did read him saying one or the other directly.
Had initial lyme symptoms late 80's, then again and with bullseye early 90's. Ended ABX for Lyme in Jan 2016. Rebuilding / fine tuning / fixing muscles since then; member "10 Percenters Lyme Club". What an adventure this has been. Hashimotos adds to the enjoyment.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32667
   Posted 4/22/2018 12:50 PM (GMT -6)   
from his blog:


CURE:
noun.
1. Restoration of health; recovery from disease.
2. A method or course of medical treatment used to restore health.
3. An agent, such as a drug, that restores health; a remedy.

REMISSION:
a. Medicine; Abatement or subsiding of the symptoms of a disease.
b. The period during which the symptoms of a disease abate or subside.



notice though that in the definition of cure:

3. An agent, such as a drug, that restores health; a remedy.



then he goes on to write:

"When a person takes antibiotics for a chronic infection, such as Lyme disease, without addressing the underlying systemic issues that lead to the actual "dis-ease", and because the bacterial overgrowth is indeed a only symptom of underlying problems in the body…you are most often only in remission."




We see people relapsing whether they chose the antibiotic route...or an alternative (herbal, homeopathy, etc)
Heck - even people who go to the Hansa center relapse.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Hoagie
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2017
Total Posts : 619
   Posted 4/22/2018 1:36 PM (GMT -6)   
I don't think he claims to heal people though, does he?

His ideology to restore optimal health seems sound though. As Dr Rawl's stated in his book, there is a place for antibiotics.

And depending on the individual, long term abx along with proper supplementation while supporting vital functions abx inhibits can work just fine. Dr Jernigan's idea is very similar to Sanoviv's founder in that true healing starts at the cellular level.

astroman
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 4880
   Posted 4/22/2018 2:07 PM (GMT -6)   
Forgive me for being direct. But he used a whole page to say what most of us already know.

I like getting to the point. He talks to much. smilewinkgrin

sandyfeet
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 285
   Posted 4/22/2018 2:17 PM (GMT -6)   
lol - Talks too much. I did have a feeling of going in circles.

I haven't quite decided whether a cure or remission is what we can achieve. I'm optimistic that some members here have gone on to have lyme free children after treatment. This sounds like 'cured' to me. Personally I'm assuming that it's remission and planning to be careful with my health while enjoying what I can when I reach it. smile
Bulls eye rash August 2013
Started treating with Buhner herbs July 2017
Treating Borellia, Babesia and Bartonella as of November 2017

astroman
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 4880
   Posted 4/22/2018 2:27 PM (GMT -6)   
I though it was well understood that remission is what happens in long term cases. Sorry if this depresses anyone, not new info here though.

Remember there are reasons some get this and some dont. A combination of things immune related.

We all know people who amazingly dont get it, despite being outdoors a lot i the environment. I know many like that. And I knew one old backwoods guy who recently died of dementia. Had all the classic lyme symptoms. His family wrote off any hints I gave them. This guy lived off and in the northland in the 60-70's. Lived in his own made log home, ate off the land. The real deal.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32667
   Posted 4/22/2018 3:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Yah - I don’t know - I’ll gladly take remission.


I personally know (not forum members) of four people in my neck of the woods who have been in remission for years. Ranging in ages from 30’s to late 60’s.

One was not chronic (caught it within weeks) but other three were.
Remission time: 3 years, 4 years, 5+ years and 15+ years. (approximately)

At what point are they considered cured?

Or does it even matter?

The only one who is cautious and watching her diet.. etc is the one who is 3 years healed.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

sandyfeet
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 285
   Posted 4/22/2018 4:53 PM (GMT -6)   
Doesn't depress me. I already have a couple of 'forevers' and 'things I keep an eye on' so I'm not overly worried about which category this ends up in. I think you're right, Girlie, that maybe it doesn't really matter. I'm feeling optimistic though. smile

That's pretty nice to know some people irl who are in long term remission. Especially if they're comfy enough to just live life without being cautious. All my friends are either still in the thick of things or only recently cured, it's a different perspective for sure.
Bulls eye rash August 2013
Started treating with Buhner herbs July 2017
Treating Borellia, Babesia and Bartonella as of November 2017

Rikky1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2860
   Posted 4/22/2018 6:02 PM (GMT -6)   
i've been around the block with this crap for almost 4 years and given my own experiences i'd say about 10% of the people have achieved remission/cure for any length of time.

its sad and that's why we need more funding in this area. i mean when zika killed 2 people in the USA it was all the rage and congress quickly passed over $1 billion in research funding. i don't think lyme is even 1% of that and its affecting hundreds of thousands of people at this point in the USA and Canada.

Deejavu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4429
   Posted 4/24/2018 4:51 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi all,

According to Dr. Jernigan's blogs I am considered cured though I don't like to use that word, I prefer healed. Yeah, it a matter of playing the word game.

The bottom line is to restore the body back to where it was before a person became sick. And that's what I did. It's not about going after all the lyme bacteria, it's about addressing the underlying problems that caused a person to get sick to begin with! Many have the mindset that they must kill all bacteria in order to get better and I agree with Dr. Jernigan that is not going to work in most cases.

The Dude Abides posted this which may help clarify Dr. Jernigan's thinking:

Can Lyme Disease Be Cured?
Dr. David A. Jernigan

Bacteria-Focused Treatments May Be Incorrect

In most Lyme disease treatment philosophies, the focus of every treatment revolves around the killing of bacteria and coinfections.

Whether the treatment is conventional antibiotics, botanical antimicrobial supplements, or antimicrobial rife-frequencies, all of these treatments focus on the “bugs” as the ultimate cause of disease, and their annihilation the ultimate cure. Is this treatment focus correct?

Clinical research suggests that in many of the people who experience long-term recovery from chronic Lyme disease, (CLD) the bacteria and coinfections played only a secondary role.

I believe the focus should be to propose a bio-centric, instead of microbe-centric focus in the treatment of people suffering from what is generally called CLD.

While many doctors and people can point to remissions in individuals brought about by antibiotic-type treatments, the ultimate role played by these drugs/supplements is over-glamorized, while the restorative functions of the human body is downplayed or ignored altogether. Health restoration is a function of the body, not a function of a drug.

In an illness where all LD laboratory tests demonstrate a high, false-negative rate, even in profoundly sick LD cases, the extensive antibiotic treatment and subsequent finding of a negative lab test means very little to validate the effectiveness of the treatment.

Having interviewed thousands of people treated primarily with long-term, natural, and conventional antibacterial medications, the vast majority of people report that they have nowhere near the quality of life they once enjoyed.

While bringing down the population of offending microbes is important, their complete annihilation is not ultimately what creates the restoration of optimum health.

Interestingly, when I spoke with the owners of two of the top Lyme research laboratories, each told me that they had never seen anyone's blood tests completely clear of the Lyme bacteria, even after years of antibiotic cocktails, rife treatments, botanical formulas, homeopathic remedies, or silver products. Yet, many of the people tested had regained their quality of life for many years and were no longer considered sick.

It turns out we all have Strep bacteria in our respiratory tract, but we may never have "Strep throat." This same Strep bacteria we were told could kill us...and it could in the right body environment. It is the same with LD. A person may always have the bacteria yet never have the disease as long as they maintain a healthy condition.

Just testing positive to having a certain bacteria or virus does not mean you will come down with a disease from that bug. Nor are you a ticking time bomb.

So much has been written by doctors and researchers about how to kill bacteria and dissolve biofilms.

It has been ingrained into our core beliefs that in Lyme Disease and other chronic infections that a person will not get well until all the bacteria are killed. This is a myth in medicine.

I guarantee that even if you could be irradiated, like a hunk of meat, and kill every single Lyme bacteria instantly, you would still have most if not all of your symptoms for a long time, if that was all you did. Health is not the absence of bacteria. It is the restoration of optimum coherence on every level of human existence.

While bringing down the bacterial population is desirable, the reality is that you will be well when the structural and functional integrity of the entire human organism has been restored.

So many people are dutifully taking their antibiotics, either prescription or botanticals, and running frequencies to kill various bacteria, and have been doing so for years wondering why they are not feeling any better.

For those of you who are doing a very comprehensive approach and are still not getting well, that just means that either your doctors are missing some key issue, or time is what is needed for the body's tissues to heal.

I ask that you consider every infection you have ever had. Generally, you might have taken an antibiotic for a short time, or just waited, and your body got over it. All of the bacteria and viruses were not completely killed, yet your body was able to control them and restore the balance.

Restoring Optimum Health

It must be understood that optimum health is the point at which the body, mind, and spirit can adapt instantly and correctly to any changes in their internal and external environment. Loss of this adaptability arises prior to the occurrence of what is known as LD.

Every aspect of the human condition must be explored, identified, and corrected at its source before lasting health can restored.

Latent or recent infection with Lyme bacteria leading to the eventual diagnosis of LD, in each case, is secondary to the underlying interferences from either inherited or acquired disturbances to adaption.

Dr. Osvaldo Font, M.D. in Puerto Rico, who was recently nominated for the Nobel Prize in Medicine for his development of Electro-Neuro-Medullar Therapy, has identified an electrical resistance or blockage in the spinal cord, which causes a short-circuit in the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. Once this accumulated energy is discharged and the current is restored, the neurological symptoms and pain fall away. It has been reported that Dr. Font’s treatments have facilitated almost 500 people to be able to get out of their wheelchairs, many of whom were previously thought to be suffering from chronic Lyme disease.

Every doctor trained in the healing philosophies of Biological Medicine is accustomed to seeing often rapid, and transformative restorations of health after correcting everything that is interfering with the body’s own restorative abilities.

The point here is to show that once the diagnosis is made of Lyme disease, 99% of doctors focus their primary efforts toward annihilating the bacteria and coinfections, and all of the other treatments revolve around that primary focus.

In chronic Lyme disease especially, it appears that the center of focus must be placed on restoring optimum coherence within the body, with the microbial issues being addressed as a secondary focus.

It is interesting that many people who would have adamantly defended the fact that they are sick because they have Lyme disease, had to agree that in the end the treatment of bacteria ultimately played only a small role in the restoring of their quality of life, once they were restored to health through the efforts of the doctors of the type presented herein.

People come to the Hansa Center from all over the world. They are damaged often beyond repair from the illness and the previous aggressive treatments.

At the Hansa Center, we do not specialize in the treatment of diseases, such as Lyme disease. We are never saying thus saith me you have Lyme bacteria and we are going to give you such and such remedy and kill the bugs for your body. We specialize in facilitating the restoration of what can be restored.

We definitely do not represent that we can get everyone well, nor keep everyone well. We are not God, nor do we desire to play God. What we represent is what we believe is the most ideal way to facilitate the body's ability to heal. We cannot make any guarantee except that we will do all we can to undo the damage and relieve the suffering to the best of our ability.

There is no arrogance in Biological Medicine, just the humbleness of knowing how limited all of us in health care are in the total scheme of things. This is the healing philosophy that I would suggest to my mother, sister, brother, wife, child, and father...as a matter of fact it is what they all have benefited from over the last twenty years.

Almost 100% of our patients have experienced the full gamut of huge amounts of antibiotics and show the damage, possibly permanent damage as a result. This damage may predispose them to recurrent infections, to say the least.

I feel that often people make less than optimal health care choices at the front end of their illness that set the tone for the rest of their lives. They then are greatly upset when we cannot put them back together. Better to adopt a more rounded treatment approach from the start, that may indeed include a short period of antibiotics, but carefully selected and balanced with the natural treatment techniques and philosophy expounded by those trained in Biological Medicine.

For people who are chronically ill and have been damaged from the illness and possibly their treatments, they need to do more than just "kill the termites", but to "repair the wood" so they can have the most secure "house" possible. I hope that those people who took a different path with less than optimal results might be able to advise others who are just diagnosed with an alternate path that might just help eliminate much needless suffering.

For additional information, click the link to view Dr. Jernigan's lecture, Helping the Body Beat Lyme Disease. /www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8_dyHJWR7U&feature=youtu.be

/www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3855315

Denise (now I am going to finish my cup of coffee) smile
12 years well ~ used Dr. Jernigan's protocol from his book about Biological Medicine (used Borrelogen, Microbojen and Neuro-Antitox).

I still detox even though healed and drink Green Vibrance. I come back to help others for others helped me when I was sick. Pay it forward! smile

http://javuviews.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/how-i-became-better-from-chronic-lyme

1000Daisies
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2016
Total Posts : 2438
   Posted 4/25/2018 9:23 AM (GMT -6)   
Oh, I don't generally get caught up in this debate. I've heard it debated in other diseases too (just recently, a friend was talking to me about this with cancer too). Same debate - different disease.

I generally just use the words "well" or "feeling well". Kid#1 has been "well" for over a year now. He's a happy, functioning kid who is no longer homebound/bedbound from this disease. He is simply "well" and living life like a normal teenager for over a year now.

On a side note, some of us can not compare "before" and "after" - especially if we were born with these challenges. No "before" to compare to.

I really do like Hansa/DrJ approach about the body. However, I don't necessarily agree with everything he says either, although I definitely tend to lean strongly on holistic healing for sure.

BTW, the link didn't work.
Kid#1: Extremely sick for several years, very difficult to treat, but doing great now!
Kid#2: Still sick now despite being treated for years but doing better (not well yet).
Kid#3: Generally good but relapsing off/on.
Me: Adv Labs positive 2016 (suspected I passed to my kids)-not as sick as others, mostly battling fatigue and yeast issues (heart/kidney issues resolved)
Treating with herbals now.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32667
   Posted 4/25/2018 10:50 AM (GMT -6)   
1000Daisies said...


BTW, the link didn't work.


Just click on "home" when the page comes up, it takes you to the article.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
Forum Information
Currently it is Sunday, June 24, 2018 3:02 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 2,974,773 posts in 326,206 threads.
View Active Threads


Who's Online
This forum has 161301 registered members. Please welcome our newest member, Joyful_in_Hope.
413 Guest(s), 6 Registered Member(s) are currently online.  Details
Jianqing Wu, Kct, Notime4lyme, JNF, oldenjon, RubyT