REALLY need advice!

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notquitesoscared13
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Date Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts : 428
   Posted 4/28/2018 5:02 AM (GMT -6)   
So, I posted thread the other day about how I was dealing with suicidal thoughts, random crying, etc. on my regimen of Clindamycin, Minocycline, pulsed Tindamax, Teasel, Houttonyia, Cryptolepsis/Sida Acuta/Alchornea, Sweet Annie, Cat's Claw and Japanese Knotweed.

LLMD recommended a 2-3 day break from all killing agents, then slowly resuming the abx. I'm just starting day 4 off of abx. The past 3 days have been up and down, but I've definitely been feeling, overall, better. Overnight, I went from a 1 on a scale of 1-10 to a 7. Day 2 was probably about a 5. Day 3 went back up to about a 6. This morning, day 4, I'm feeling very anxious, depressed, but not really suicidal. So I'd say about a 4.

What do I DO now? Obviously I had toxicity, so the abx. were killing crap. I was diagnosed CDC positive last August or so with Lyme, after getting reinfected by a bite in March, and tested positive 5 years or so ago for Babesia, which I believe is still with me despite months and months of Malarone, Artemisinin and Mepron.

But I'm so, so scared to start the abx. again. I work two jobs and have two teens to care for. Take care of a house on my own. I cannot afford to be suicidal and breaking down in tears.

My thoughts are to start back up again slowly on the herbal abx. exclusively. What say all of you? Do you think I should stay off of the prescriptions, even though they were obviously killing bugs? I was on the herbal regimen for several months before starting the prescriptions but didn't feel I was progressing. But I also wasn't suicidal. Please help! I need advice!

Dahlias
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Date Joined Jun 2017
Total Posts : 518
   Posted 4/28/2018 6:26 AM (GMT -6)   
It's such a difficult balance. For me, I am taking my abx and backing off when I feel too strong of a herx starting. I'm also trying to keep up with detoxing and increase it when I start feeling worse. (Epsom salt baths, extra burbur and pinella, etc.)

I have also wrestled at times with anxiety about taking the medications, which can be a problem in itself. I have had to really try to reframe how I think about it -- that *I* am sending in this army to fight the bugs for me. We are in control over what we take, and we can pay careful attention to our bodies' reaction and adjust accordingly.

And I'm taking advantage of other tools to help with the anxiety, like lavender oil and L-theanine. On really bad days, I wear an essential oil locket with lavender oil in it.

Hang in there -- we'll get through this. Hope you're feeling better soon!
"This too shall pass. It might pass like a kidney stone, but it will pass."

Lyme, babesia, mycoplasma pneumonia. Diagnosed May 2017. Neuro symptoms began September 2017. Treating 11 months so far.

Deejavu
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Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4438
   Posted 4/28/2018 9:51 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi notquitesoscared13,

I really feel for you as you have so much on your plate between your kids, 2 jobs, the house, etc.

I'm not a medical doctor so I can not give you advice as far as abx. Only you know how you feel when you are taking them or not taking them.

What I do know is what worked for me. I really dislike sounding like a broken record on this forum when it comes to Dr. Jernigan but did you know that one of the remedies I took called Borrelogen was tested and below are the results (they found more dead lyme bacteria compared to abx):

"I presented research on Borrelogen in 1999 at the International Tick-borne Diseases Conference in New York City, where 500 of the top infectious disease researchers and doctors met to present and discuss research on LD. As far as I know, the research I did of my formulation called Borrelogen is still the only real laboratory verified research out there that documents via blood tests that a natural remedy even works. Remember though, Borrelogen is not treating any disease or bacteria…it is supporting the little-known bioenergetic immune system. That research can be read in my book, Beating Lyme Disease, 2nd edition.

* In that research we used a LUAT test, that essentially is a urine test where the lab counts how many pieces of dead Lyme spirochete bacteria were found in the patient’s urine, usually after a week of taking antibiotics.

A positive LUAT was where the lab found 32 pieces of dead Lyme bacteria in your first morning urine. A highly positive test was if the lab found 45 pieces of dead Lyme bacteria.

After our patients took 1 dropper TID of Borrelogen for a week almost all of the LUAT tests were between 100 to greater than 400 which is where the lab quits counting!

The bioenergetic immune system of the body was able to kill off massive amounts of the bacteria. (Due to the frequencies produced by the body as a result of the installation of the new “software” from the remedy.)"

Link to that article below with lots of information (the interview link doesn't work on that site but on another site if you are interested):

hansacenter.com/listen-to-dr-jernigans-interview-on-chronic-lyme-disease-on-lyme-light-radio/

Below Borrelogen was tested by IgeneX:

www.drsarajernigan.com/BorrelogenMore.html

************************************************

If there any way you can find the time to take a detox bath most evenings before you go to sleep? If toxins are not eliminated they get recycled back into the body making one feel much worse. I'm just very concerned about your toxin overload and what you can do about it on your tight schedule.

Denise
12 years well ~ used Dr. Jernigan's protocol from his book about Biological Medicine (used Borrelogen, Microbojen and Neuro-Antitox).

I still detox even though healed and drink Green Vibrance. I come back to help others for others helped me when I was sick. Pay it forward! smile

http://javuviews.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/how-i-became-better-from-chronic-lyme

acarined
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 230
   Posted 4/28/2018 11:15 AM (GMT -6)   
My doc has always told me to back off the treatment when the effects are intolerable.

Notime4lyme
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 382
   Posted 4/28/2018 11:30 AM (GMT -6)   
If you have been taking antibiotics for a long time, and your symptoms haven't improved any maybe it would be a good idea to switch to herbals. But since it sound like you haven't been on antibiotics for long maybe you are getting toxic overload and maybe if you take a break for a week or so and you will feel better.

Have you been taking probiotics to help restore the good bacteria? When I was taking antibiotics I felt like I was getting personality changes because my gut flora was off. I felt like a completely different person. I was feeling better Lyme-symptom wise, but I felt like the change in my gut flora was changing my personality. Now, that was just my feeling and maybe it was die-off.

I was on probiotics, but I think they were pretty weak ones. Also I think some of my symptoms were from a yeast infection I got because of the antibiotics. I took a b vitamin with yeast in it, and it was not a good idea.

Post Edited (Notime4lyme) : 4/28/2018 10:51:10 AM (GMT-6)


notquitesoscared13
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts : 428
   Posted 4/29/2018 6:26 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi All,

Thanks for all of the input. I'm trying to process all of the varying advice and make a decision. Here's what I'm thinking:

I might stay off the pharmaceuticals for a while, and just take the herbal killers: Teasel, Houttonyia, Cryptolepsis/Sida Acuta/Alochornea combo, Cat's Claw/Japanese knotweed combo, Sweet Annie. Obviously keep up on all of my vitamins, minerals, probiotics, etc. I'm thinking of adding in the Borrelogen on Deejavu's advice, but Deeja, I cannot really tell from the article whether Borrelogen is OK to use with all of the above. Do you have any insight into this?
Probably sick for more than 20 years. Crashed in Aug. of 2013. Completing 12 months of treatment as of Aug. 2014, and feeling much better! Have taken a wide variety of antibiotics, antiparasitics and herbals for blood-diagnosed Babesia, Erlichia and Anaplasma, and suspected Bart and Lyme.

Bitten by two ticks in March of 2016, which seems to have set off a new infection.

Deejavu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4438
   Posted 4/29/2018 9:10 AM (GMT -6)   
Morning notquitesoscared13,

Yes, Borrelogen is okay to use with the other herbs (below is a link and if you scroll down you can read the ingredients in Borrelogen). I know people who took Borrelogen with abx as well. My thinking is how do you know which one is working when you are taking multiple herbs?

Thus, I kept it simple and gave each one 4 weeks to see if I felt any better. I first tried Silver, then Nutramedix Samento, and other remedies (I don't remember them all) and I didn't feel better. But when I tried Borrelogen I had WOW moments! The combination of the herbs in that remedy worked for me.

Also, are you taking anything to bind up the toxins in your body? Or taking detox baths, foot baths, etc.? If you don't get those toxins out of your body where are they going to go? They get circulated right back into your body (blood, brain, bones, etc.). I know how busy you are but can you fit a detox bath (assuming you have a tub) each night before you go to bed?

/www.iplanethealth.com/Jernigan-Nutraceuticals-All-Products

Hope this helps,
Denise
12 years well ~ used Dr. Jernigan's protocol from his book about Biological Medicine (used Borrelogen, Microbojen and Neuro-Antitox).

I still detox even though healed and drink Green Vibrance. I come back to help others for others helped me when I was sick. Pay it forward! smile

http://javuviews.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/how-i-became-better-from-chronic-lyme

notquitesoscared13
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts : 428
   Posted 4/29/2018 11:42 AM (GMT -6)   
I'm only doing lemon water and Alka Seltzer Gold right now for detox. I really, really HATE baths. Don't know why, always have. And hot tubs, steam rooms, etc. Are there other things I can do to detox? So are you suggesting giving the Borrelogen a try on it's own? That might be a nice compromise--try it for a week or two with only vits./minterals/probiotics, and see how I feel.
Probably sick for more than 20 years. Crashed in Aug. of 2013. Completing 12 months of treatment as of Aug. 2014, and feeling much better! Have taken a wide variety of antibiotics, antiparasitics and herbals for blood-diagnosed Babesia, Erlichia and Anaplasma, and suspected Bart and Lyme.

Bitten by two ticks in March of 2016, which seems to have set off a new infection.

Deejavu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4438
   Posted 4/29/2018 5:25 PM (GMT -6)   
Golly gee, I never met anyone who hated baths, lol! Your honesty is very refreshing! How to you feel about foot baths? Did you know the soles of your feet have around 2000 pores? You could take Epsom salts and mix them in water and soak your feet for about 15 to 20 minutes. That would draw out toxins.

Anyway, I was suggesting trying one herbal remedy at a time just to see if you felt any better. Of course I am partial to Borrelogen because that is what worked for me plus the fact that IgeneX tested it as well as another lab. I didn't know that when I was taking it, only afterward. I remember wondering why I responded so well to Borrelogen and after reading about the LUAT testing it made sense.

It's your choice and I don't see how it could hurt if you tried it for 4 weeks. Who knows, you may feel great afterward!

As far as other detox methods below is a link to different detox methods (activated charcoal, burbur, etc.):

www.tiredoflyme.com/detox-methods.html

If you do decide on taking the Borrelogen then I suggest you order the Neuro-Antitox CNS/PNS formula as well because that product binds up toxins in your body and brain.

Hope this helps,
Denise
12 years well ~ used Dr. Jernigan's protocol from his book about Biological Medicine (used Borrelogen, Microbojen and Neuro-Antitox).

I still detox even though healed and drink Green Vibrance. I come back to help others for others helped me when I was sick. Pay it forward! smile

http://javuviews.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/how-i-became-better-from-chronic-lyme

notquitesoscared13
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts : 428
   Posted 4/29/2018 8:39 PM (GMT -6)   
I do hate baths. I'm not filthy--I take a shower every day. LOL Just don't like to sit in warm water. But the epsom salt foot baths are a great idea, and I'm gonna try one of those tomorrow after work!

I just ordered myself Borrelogen and the Neuro-Antitox CNS/PNS formula. I'm going to give them a try for at least a month, and only take my supplements, probiotics, and probably my Japanese Knotweed/Cat's Claw capsules--and nothing else. We'll see how I feel after that. I just have a good feeling about it after doing some reading. So thank you for that! And this gives me another one-month reprieve from abx., without feeling like I'm doing nothing to combat the disease/s. So I'm feeling good about this--and hopeful!

To top it off, this is day 5 of going off the abx., while drinking TONS of lemon water and Apple Cider Vinegar--and I'm feeling pretty good. So I'm almost positive the toxicity was what was causing the bulk of my psych stuff.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33795
   Posted 4/29/2018 10:52 PM (GMT -6)   
That’s great you’re feeling better!!
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

notquitesoscared13
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts : 428
   Posted 4/30/2018 5:48 AM (GMT -6)   
Here's another realization I came to this morning. Sorry if it's too much information. smile

I talked in my earlier thread about how I had diarrhea for more than 20 years. Literally, never a normal stool for at least 20 years--always soft, often liquid with cramping, discomfort, gas, etc. With treatment 5 years ago, that went away. I had normal stools for the first time in my adult life, pretty much. And, I felt better in other ways, too.

Some time during the past few months, the diarrhea came back--especially in the morning. Day 5 off of the antibiotics, and I didn't wake up with a sour stomach and liquid stools. And my brain feels better too. Not perfect--still some anxiety and a feeling of unease that's almost always with me. But no suicidal depression. Mood is much lifted.

So, if the antibiotics are destroying my gut this time around (last time I handled them better, I think), I don't think I'm gonna get well. Healthy gut, healthy body and vice versa. Does that make sense? Maybe I need a gentler approach this time around that doesn't totally destroy my gut flora?
Probably sick for more than 20 years. Crashed in Aug. of 2013. Completing 12 months of treatment as of Aug. 2014, and feeling much better! Have taken a wide variety of antibiotics, antiparasitics and herbals for blood-diagnosed Babesia, Erlichia and Anaplasma, and suspected Bart and Lyme.

Bitten by two ticks in March of 2016, which seems to have set off a new infection.

Deejavu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4438
   Posted 4/30/2018 6:30 AM (GMT -6)   
Morning notquitesoscared13,

As far as detox baths I was not implying that you are filthy, lol!! I figured you were a shower person. Glad you are open to doing foot detox baths.

Anyway it sounds like antibiotics are not for you even though you were taking probiotics. Not everyone is a candidate for antibiotics, I wasn't as they made me really sick. Herbal protocols are just as strong if not stronger compared to abx which is why I am really happy that you ordered the Borrelogen and Neuro-Antitox Formula. These remedies ARE a gentler approach and will do the same job if not a better job compared to abx.

Also, I never met anyone who had side effects from those remedies (especially when taken without abx).

I wonder if you should start drinking bone broth to heal your gut even though you woke up without the liquid stools. I know you don't have time to make your own but did you know stores sell organic bone broth? I believe even Walmart sells it.

I'm looking forward to when you receive Jernigan's remedies, I think you are going to be pleasantly surprised!!

Denise
12 years well ~ used Dr. Jernigan's protocol from his book about Biological Medicine (used Borrelogen, Microbojen and Neuro-Antitox).

I still detox even though healed and drink Green Vibrance. I come back to help others for others helped me when I was sick. Pay it forward! smile

http://javuviews.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/how-i-became-better-from-chronic-lyme

notquitesoscared13
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts : 428
   Posted 4/30/2018 12:19 PM (GMT -6)   
Hmmm...never thought to look for bone broth. I've gotta stop by the grocery store on my way home from work today, so I'll look for it.
Probably sick for more than 20 years. Crashed in Aug. of 2013. Completing 12 months of treatment as of Aug. 2014, and feeling much better! Have taken a wide variety of antibiotics, antiparasitics and herbals for blood-diagnosed Babesia, Erlichia and Anaplasma, and suspected Bart and Lyme.

Bitten by two ticks in March of 2016, which seems to have set off a new infection.

notquitesoscared13
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts : 428
   Posted 5/1/2018 12:00 PM (GMT -6)   
I picked up some organic bone broth last night. Very expensive! How do I use it and what is it supposed to accomplish? LOL
Probably sick for more than 20 years. Crashed in Aug. of 2013. Completing 12 months of treatment as of Aug. 2014, and feeling much better! Have taken a wide variety of antibiotics, antiparasitics and herbals for blood-diagnosed Babesia, Erlichia and Anaplasma, and suspected Bart and Lyme.

Bitten by two ticks in March of 2016, which seems to have set off a new infection.

Notime4lyme
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 382
   Posted 5/1/2018 12:18 PM (GMT -6)   
I heard that is is supposed to help heal your gut. I did bone broth for a while and I think it helped, but I didn't need to keep on doing it after a while. When I first started it I actually felt a little worse. Maybe it was a herx.

Also I heard that your gut can't heal unless you get rid of parasites. I think healing tour gut can definitely make a big difference in physiological symptoms, because your gut is connected to your brain.

notquitesoscared13
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts : 428
   Posted 5/1/2018 6:18 PM (GMT -6)   
Thank you for your input! I'm kind of afraid to drink it. It seems gross. Does it taste gross?

goshawk
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 2293
   Posted 5/1/2018 6:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Its not bad, beef or chicken bone broth is used in many soups and recipes.

Drink it warm just like soup.

Deejavu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4438
   Posted 5/2/2018 8:10 AM (GMT -6)   
I wonder what brand of bone broth you bought and I also wonder what other's buy that they recommend.

I make my own using a slow cooker (crock pot) and let it cook for more than 24 hours (I have made beef bone broth using short ribs which is delicious) as well as chicken broth (I put the entire chicken in the slow cooker with onions, veggies, etc.) It's really easy to do!

That said I was looking on Amazon to see what Organic Bone Broths received good reviews:

The one below does not say "organic" but it received good reviews:

/www.amazon.com/Kitchen-Basics-Original-Chicken-Broth/dp/B01GOO6HRK/ref=pd_sim_325_4?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01GOO6HRK&pd_rd_r=CBAVK8NKMM02V96ZTBS1&pd_rd_w=muFX6&pd_rd_wg=zz9Z5&refRid=CBAVK8NKMM02V96ZTBS1&th=1

This one states Organic:

/www.amazon.com/Beef-Bone-Broth-Kettle-Fire/dp/B01B510T8A/ref=sr_1_5_s_it?s=grocery&ie=UTF8&qid=1525266133&sr=1-5&keywords=organic%2Bbone%2Bbroth&th=1

As others said it's supposed to heal your gut (the collagen ingredient). I make it and drink it because it's healthy and I love the flavor. It comes out like a stew (either the chicken or beef version) and I freeze the broth in ice cube trays to use later on.

Why use bone broth? Interesting article by Dr. Mercola:

/articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/02/23/bone-broth-superfood.aspx

Denise
12 years well ~ used Dr. Jernigan's protocol from his book about Biological Medicine (used Borrelogen, Microbojen and Neuro-Antitox).

I still detox even though healed and drink Green Vibrance. I come back to help others for others helped me when I was sick. Pay it forward! smile

http://javuviews.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/how-i-became-better-from-chronic-lyme

Deejavu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4438
   Posted 5/3/2018 7:38 AM (GMT -6)   
bump!
12 years well ~ used Dr. Jernigan's protocol from his book about Biological Medicine (used Borrelogen, Microbojen and Neuro-Antitox).

I still detox even though healed and drink Green Vibrance. I come back to help others for others helped me when I was sick. Pay it forward! smile

http://javuviews.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/how-i-became-better-from-chronic-lyme
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