Question about iha fir buhner's Bart protocol

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KYLEb23
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Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 78
   Posted 5/1/2018 6:35 PM (GMT -6)   
For those that are taking iha and are on his protocol, do you have to cycle iha. For example, 3 weeks on and 1 week off? If you do, when your off do you replace with just houttuynia?

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32656
   Posted 5/1/2018 6:50 PM (GMT -6)   
I didn’t know the protocol called for pulsing of the IHA.

I can check my Buhner bart book later
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

WalkingbyFaith
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Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1682
   Posted 5/1/2018 6:51 PM (GMT -6)   
I don't cycle it. I've been taking it for many months, but I take tiny doses (4-6 drops). He says, if I remember right, that long term it can cause deep chill.

If you're taking full doses, you could order each of the herbs separately and take breaks from the isatis.

KYLEb23
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 78
   Posted 5/1/2018 8:41 PM (GMT -6)   
Okay girlie thanks I thought I saw that somewhere on these forums awhile ago. Okay thanks wbf your doing buhner's bartonella protocol too am I right? I'm taking iha , Japanese knotweed, sida acuta. I really can't afford the others because I'm in college full-time and only have a part time job. Also doing purslane instead of milk thistle for liver support. Do you think it's absolutely necessary to have supportive herbs though?

sandyfeet
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 285
   Posted 5/2/2018 9:54 AM (GMT -6)   
I'm the one that mentioned pulsing the isatis but I think that may only necessary if you're on full high doses of it which I am and have been for a few months. Buhner doesn't mention it in the description of the bart protocol but he does mention it else where in the book and in his other books on isatis. I like to be extremely careful as I have no medical support for getting basic blood work done.

FWIW I like the idea of including as many of the supportive herbs as I can. I think of it as essentially making the natural state of my body strong enough that it is inhospitable to the bacteria. Having said that they are the ones that I am sometimes inconsistent with.
Bulls eye rash August 2013
Started treating with Buhner herbs July 2017
Treating Borellia, Babesia and Bartonella as of November 2017

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32656
   Posted 5/2/2018 10:05 AM (GMT -6)   
sandyfeet said...
I'm the one that mentioned pulsing the isatis but I think that may only necessary if you're on full high doses of it which I am and have been for a few months. Buhner doesn't mention it in the description of the bart protocol but he does mention it else where in the book and in his other books on isatis. I like to be extremely careful as I have no medical support for getting basic blood work done.

FWIW I like the idea of including as many of the supportive herbs as I can. I think of it as essentially making the natural state of my body strong enough that it is inhospitable to the bacteria. Having said that they are the ones that I am sometimes inconsistent with.



okay - I guess I don't remember that - I was just looking at the protocol section.

So it's for safety reasons? You mentioned blood work...does it affect the liver?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

sandyfeet
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 285
   Posted 5/2/2018 10:17 AM (GMT -6)   
It's kidneys - pg 169 - "high doses or long term use may negatively affect the kidneys".

He also mentions the possibility of inducing a deep chill - as WBF mentions - although I've never experienced this.

It's here and also in his Antibiotic book that he mentions the possibility of using higher doses (1/2 tsp 3x day) provided you take a break - three weeks on, one off. I do find it an effective herb for me. I think.

It's one of the things I find mildly frustrating with Buhner. Sometimes little tidbits are hidden here and there so it's really important to read it all.

I gather lots of people get regular kidney and liver checks during treatment. That's mostly important with antibiotics I know. But I do worry just a little bit about how the herbs might affect me after long term use. I've been very, very, meticulous about checking everything out on the liver-tox website and reading all the fine print on side effects. I did have a full compete check up before I started treatment while I was still exploring possible causes for all my symptoms and hooray! I'm in perfect health lol.
Bulls eye rash August 2013
Started treating with Buhner herbs July 2017
Treating Borellia, Babesia and Bartonella as of November 2017

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32656
   Posted 5/2/2018 10:53 AM (GMT -6)   
Yes, the tidbits - particularly ones relating to “safety” should be with the protocols.

I read the entire book, but don’t even remember that - it may have been a part I read in late evening before going to bed which may be why it didn’t register.


Getting kidney function tests regularly could be a problem for some - particularly people who are self treating with the herbs.
And abnormal kidney and liver function tests often don’t equate with symptoms.

I couldn’t “feel” my liver enzymes rising.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

sandyfeet
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 285
   Posted 5/2/2018 12:50 PM (GMT -6)   
Every time I re-read sections of his books I turn up something I missed earlier or something that gives me some new ideas. I find it really useful for me to go back from time to time as it’s easy to forget why I’m taking a certain herb, especially those supportive herbs, or what alternatives I might explore.
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