What is your herx cycle (how often)?

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dacarte3
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Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 1903
   Posted 5/2/2018 7:02 PM (GMT -6)   
So I'm having a lymie week this week. Wonky, off-kelter feeling. Head fogginess. POTS.

For me I can go a good 2-3 months before having a bad week (like the one I'm in now). This is tons better than herxing non stop or every other week like the olden lyme days.

But it's still a bummer. Right when you are not really consciously thinking about lyme (but you are still doing everything lyme related out of second nature habit), a herx week happens to sadly remind me it's not 100% gone (and most likely never will be).

And then cycle of worrying and anxiety creeps back up.

Then it passes, I get another really good 2-3 months and then a herx week.

I'm just curious to learn about other lymie's herx cycles.
Lyme (Igenex) - Positive IFA and WB bands 23, 31, 41
Ehrlichia (Igenex)
Mycoplasma (Labcorp) - Score: 595

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016; 7/2017-9/2017
Buhner Protocol for Borrelia, Babesia, Bartonella and Mycoplasma (treating everything to be on the safe side): May 2016 - Dec. 2016; 8/2017 - Present

Donjr
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2018
Total Posts : 182
   Posted 5/2/2018 10:11 PM (GMT -6)   
Hoping to get to that point, but mine is daily so far. What did you do to get there? Herbs? Llmd or self treat? Ty pray you get 100 soon

Spanish
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 146
   Posted 5/3/2018 12:32 PM (GMT -6)   
I just seem to have a few good days followed by a few bad days and then the same all over again

WalkingbyFaith
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Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1988
   Posted 5/3/2018 12:47 PM (GMT -6)   
I seem to have the opposite of your cycle - herx for 2-3 months. Then have a good week or two. Add something new or increase doses and back to herxing again.

I'm sorry you're still having some bad weeks. Hope you figure out why. I know that's discouraging.

1000Daisies
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2016
Total Posts : 2473
   Posted 5/3/2018 1:01 PM (GMT -6)   
For the most part, I see no rhyme and reason.

I use to call our "flares" herxs mistakenly - when they were really truly flares instead.

For Kid#1, in the last few years of un-wellness, he would get physical flares every few weeks like clockwork. It started after he did IVs (Myer's Cocktail, Glutathione). I feel those IVs like woke up his immune system somehow....

Kid#2 will have some identifiable herxs after starting something like anti-viral supplements. He would get much worse and then huge improvement. Definitely a herx for that. He no longer responds to the anti-virals anymore like that.

Otherwise, for the most part, I'd call the rest of the bad days/moments more "flares". And they are completely random and unpredictable for the most part (except for starting or increasing some herbals - we notice responses from that - but really not a major improvement in symptoms though).
Kid#1: Extremely sick for several years, very difficult to treat, but doing great now!
Kid#2: Still sick now despite being treated for years but doing better (not well yet).
Kid#3: Generally good but relapsing off/on.
Me: Adv Labs positive 2016 (suspected I passed to my kids)-not as sick as others, mostly battling fatigue and yeast issues (heart/kidney issues resolved)
Treating with herbals now.

mpost
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1527
   Posted 5/3/2018 1:08 PM (GMT -6)   
on antibiotics i am ok for 6 months, then i have a few bad weeks. we almost call it "victory" with treatment, then bang ...

when i was early in the disease, these cycles were VERY narrow, i almost cycled every 1-1.5 months. slowly it became more distant ... and with abx even more

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33795
   Posted 5/3/2018 1:20 PM (GMT -6)   
Ditto what Daisies said. Mine are no rhyme or reason.

Flares/herxing.....water is muddy for me.

Except for a few occasions when I've started a new med...and my symptoms are off the chart a few days later...
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

dacarte3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 1903
   Posted 5/3/2018 6:51 PM (GMT -6)   
I stopped herbs completely for a couple of days. And the herxing seem to greatly dissipate.

I've been taking herbs at full dose for 5 or 6 seeks straight.

Herb breaks. Is that a real thing? Should we be taking consistent and periodic breaks?

The herbs help us but can be taxing?

I know this is true for ABX but always saw herbs a little differently in this regard. Perhaps I should not.
Lyme (Igenex) - Positive IFA and WB bands 23, 31, 41
Ehrlichia (Igenex)
Mycoplasma (Labcorp) - Score: 595

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016; 7/2017-9/2017
Buhner Protocol for Borrelia, Babesia, Bartonella and Mycoplasma (treating everything to be on the safe side): May 2016 - Dec. 2016; 8/2017 - Present

Woodduck12
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 156
   Posted 5/3/2018 7:52 PM (GMT -6)   
I was wondering the same. I want to break from my herbals to see what my baseline would be. I also do not want to loose any ground. I am approaching 5 months of Buhners bart protocol. I also do not want to looses any ground.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33795
   Posted 5/3/2018 9:35 PM (GMT -6)   
Not necessary to have breaks with the herbs...but if you're herxing...it might be a good idea...or just cut back the dose for several days.

I don't think I'd take a break during the non-herx times.

I didn't herx when I was taking the lyme herbs...not that I know of anyway.

But, I was only on them alone for a couple months prior to starting abx treatment.

And then later added the bart herbs to my lyme antibiotics for about 4 months.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Post Edited (Girlie) : 5/3/2018 8:38:05 PM (GMT-6)


1000Daisies
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2016
Total Posts : 2473
   Posted 5/3/2018 10:40 PM (GMT -6)   
Popular opinion seems to be to not take breaks from herbals.

I don't necessarily agree with that. I personally have benefited from breaks from herbals. I was really struggling last year while on herbals, and I really got better with one of my symptoms with a herbal break. Doesn't seem like it's common though to take a break.

Plus, I think with most treatments, it's good to take breaks and reevaluate personally. (A few of my trusted doctors feel the same too.)
Kid#1: Extremely sick for several years, very difficult to treat, but doing great now!
Kid#2: Still sick now despite being treated for years but doing better (not well yet).
Kid#3: Generally good but relapsing off/on.
Me: Adv Labs positive 2016 (suspected I passed to my kids)-not as sick as others, mostly battling fatigue and yeast issues (heart/kidney issues resolved)
Treating with herbals now.

sandyfeet
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 374
   Posted 5/4/2018 7:29 AM (GMT -6)   
I’d agree that in general we’re not supposed to take breaks from herbs although I was off them once for 5 days for a bad stomach bug, not sure that set me back any. I do make changes to what I’m taking and dosing at times.

So far my longest herbal herx/flare was five days when I ramped up crypto. Otherwise there’s no rhyme or reason. I have a bad flare every 10 or 20 days or consisting of 1-3 days of extreme fatigue, pain and crying. I’m thinking they’re flares although I don’t know if they’re set off by a day of over doing things, coinciding with hormonal drops, or changes in dosing of some herbs.

Lyme and co continue to be a lovely tangled puzzle.
Bulls eye rash August 2013
Started treating with Buhner herbs July 2017
Treating Borellia, Babesia and Bartonella as of November 2017

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1988
   Posted 5/4/2018 8:43 AM (GMT -6)   
I, too, had to take a break due to stomach bug or something a few weeks ago. The day I got sick with diarrhea and vomiting, I still took berberine, licorice, and bidens to hit whatever "bugs" were attacking my gut but cut out all the other herbs and supplements. A few days later, I started having more symptoms return, so I added back the knotweed at 1/2 tsp of powder 2x day (vs 3/4 tsp 3x day). I gradually added back all the herbs/supplements except Cordyceps and EGCG and quercetin. Still haven't added those back in.

Once I started back on lower doses only 2x day, I started to feel better than I had in months. I think I had been herxing constantly for months (even on tiny doses). This was the first real break I'd taken since starting 10 months ago.

Based on what I just experienced, I would say taking breaks when you feel you may be herxing for a long time is a good idea.

I had my TGFBeta-1 tested. In February, it was over 17,000. I just had it tested again after this gut fiasco/herb break and it came down to 6,000. That is a CIRS inflammatory marker that is typically associated with mold exposure. My environment did not change between February and April, so I'm making assumptions now that there are more things than just mold exposure that can cause TGFBeta-1 to rise. Maybe herxing is one of them. Not a good thing. High TGFBeta-1 over 5,000 is a cause for concern and is a precursor for developing autoimmunity.

dacarte3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 1903
   Posted 5/7/2018 6:23 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie said...
Not necessary to have breaks with the herbs...but if you're herxing...it might be a good idea...or just cut back the dose for several days.

I don't think I'd take a break during the non-herx times.

I didn't herx when I was taking the lyme herbs...not that I know of anyway.

But, I was only on them alone for a couple months prior to starting abx treatment.

And then later added the bart herbs to my lyme antibiotics for about 4 months.


What would you recommend Girlie? What is several days? I'm about 5-6 days in on stopping herbs.

The parkison like tremors in my right arm/hand stopped. POTS stopped. But the wonky off-kelter feeling when walking is still lingering around.

It happens around the same time every day 5-9pm. Epsom foot soak tends to help it fade away faster.
Lyme (Igenex) - Positive IFA and WB bands 23, 31, 41
Ehrlichia (Igenex)
Mycoplasma (Labcorp) - Score: 595

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016; 7/2017-9/2017
Buhner Protocol for Borrelia, Babesia, Bartonella and Mycoplasma (treating everything to be on the safe side): May 2016 - Dec. 2016; 8/2017 - Present

dacarte3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 1903
   Posted 5/7/2018 6:28 PM (GMT -6)   
Woodduck12 said...
I was wondering the same. I want to break from my herbals to see what my baseline would be. I also do not want to loose any ground. I am approaching 5 months of Buhners bart protocol. I also do not want to looses any ground.


This is the exact dilemma I'm in right now. Will I feel better if I take a break. Will I lose ground and things get worse if I don't take my herbs. Catch 22.

And then break for how long before it's "too long"?

A lot of lyme symptoms I can just ignore and push through (mind over matter) but this wonky drunk/hungover feeling when moving can't be ignored. Super annoying.
Lyme (Igenex) - Positive IFA and WB bands 23, 31, 41
Ehrlichia (Igenex)
Mycoplasma (Labcorp) - Score: 595

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016; 7/2017-9/2017
Buhner Protocol for Borrelia, Babesia, Bartonella and Mycoplasma (treating everything to be on the safe side): May 2016 - Dec. 2016; 8/2017 - Present

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1988
   Posted 5/7/2018 7:05 PM (GMT -6)   
Guys,

I took that brief break and slowly restarted. Was feeling better for a couple of weeks until last Friday when I started having intestinal pain again. Been getting worse ever since. Don't know if it's bart or Lyme in the gut or candida. For me, it's mostly a guessing game.

Now I feel stuck again. I also feel like I'm even more sensitive to the herbs now than I was before I took that break. I was already very sensitive and on tiny doses. So frustrating.

dacarte3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 1903
   Posted 5/7/2018 8:19 PM (GMT -6)   
I think I figured out my issue.

Dosage. And I'm pissed.

I started taking this herb blend that my LLMD gave me. But there's a HUGE problem. The dosage is extremely weak. It's a blend of 8 herbs. The blend is 280mg (full dose). Twice a day that is 560mg. That is extremely weak. That is approximately 70mg per herb. That's the equivalent of taking nothing.

Compared to the herbs I have always taken which is 650mg full dose per herb. Twice a day that is 1300mg per herb. Times 5-6 herbs that is 6500mg - 7800mg a day. An effective dosage.

This came to me when I was going back through Buhner's literature and he was saying how an herb isn't even effective unless they are at certain dosage.

This made me go look at the label.

So it's like I've been taking nothing for almost 2 months. No wonder symptoms are creeping back.

Ordering my old reliable herbs now.
Lyme (Igenex) - Positive IFA and WB bands 23, 31, 41
Ehrlichia (Igenex)
Mycoplasma (Labcorp) - Score: 595

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016; 7/2017-9/2017
Buhner Protocol for Borrelia, Babesia, Bartonella and Mycoplasma (treating everything to be on the safe side): May 2016 - Dec. 2016; 8/2017 - Present

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33795
   Posted 5/7/2018 9:09 PM (GMT -6)   
Oh dear - so it wasn’t herxing - it was symptoms coming back from insufficient dose of herbs?


Well you figured it out and now you can adjust and get back on track.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1988
   Posted 5/8/2018 1:05 PM (GMT -6)   
dacarte,

What are your old reliable herbs?

What formula did your doc have you taking?

dacarte3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 1903
   Posted 5/8/2018 6:21 PM (GMT -6)   
WalkingbyFaith said...
dacarte,

What are your old reliable herbs?

What formula did your doc have you taking?


My LLND gave me a mycoplasma blend. Researched Nutritionals. Called like myco-p something.

I get my herbs from Montana Farmacy, where 30 drops is 650mg.

Never been so excited to see my herbs shipped and on it's way, so I can get back on track.
Lyme (Igenex) - Positive IFA and WB bands 23, 31, 41
Ehrlichia (Igenex)
Mycoplasma (Labcorp) - Score: 595

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016; 7/2017-9/2017
Buhner Protocol for Borrelia, Babesia, Bartonella and Mycoplasma (treating everything to be on the safe side): May 2016 - Dec. 2016; 8/2017 - Present
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