Bart transmision.

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OriolCarol
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   Posted 5/6/2018 6:27 AM (GMT -6)   
Is true that Bartonella can be transimted by saliva in humans?

I've seen an article where a whole family was infected by Bart and i think if medical literature say that it's a relative minor infection that usually resolve without treatment,i can understand that one member of the familly was infected... but all members? Inmunocompetent people without exception infected with bart? Maybe it's not so benign... or maybe the problem is another second patogen like lyme? And people think that they have Bart?

I've been talking with one of the most knowedlege doctors of Bart and he said me that normally people with Bart don't herx and when it happens it s only the first or second week and it's not so hard like lyme... so if a person is having constant herxes we should think in lyme like the main problem... i'm confused about it... what do you think guys?

mpost
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   Posted 5/6/2018 6:48 AM (GMT -6)   
no it is not true.

bartonella is transmitted through blood, it lives in blood cells then spreads across the body and gets to endothelial tissue everywhere it exists.

the bacteria needs to come into contact directly with blood vessels to create infection. for example you can get it by a scratch (have u heard of 'cat scratch disease' ?) , or by some insect bite. fleas, lice , ticks etc...

yes probably you do not herx from bart but u can get other symptoms, like rashes etc... also when u take for eg herbs that kill bart, they usually kill other stuff too, like say candida. it is unlikely you have systemic bart infection and are otherwise healthy with a healthy immune system. something is wrong with your immune system if u have a bad case of bart, and when something is wrong with your immune system, candida thrives. herbs that kill bart sometimes kill candida (houttuynia has mild anti fungal effects) and candida die-off will give u a herx... so even if bart is not always the cause of herx, treating bart can cause a herx...

OriolCarol
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   Posted 5/6/2018 7:16 AM (GMT -6)   
and for example mpost, if I have a cat infected by Bartonella, and this one injures me recidivist, I will be more likely to get bart? or once my body generates antibodies, will I have immunity forever?

WalkingbyFaith
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   Posted 5/6/2018 8:18 AM (GMT -6)   
Buhner does state in his bartonella book that research shows bartonella has been found in salivary glands. I do not think any research has been done to determine whether or not it is actually transmitted from person to person via saliva.

WalkingbyFaith
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   Posted 5/6/2018 8:32 AM (GMT -6)   
Regarding herxing from bartonella:

Dollface29 is another member of this forum who got bartonella after being bitten by an infected kitten. She does not have Lyme. She is being treated by Dr. M, the bart guru. Read all of her posts in this thread. She definitely herxed from bart only treatment.

/www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3868229

Most of us do herx on bart treatment, and it is with bart-specific symptoms. Not sure why that would be due to Lyme. Doesn't make sense to me. Doctors think bartonella can't cause herxing because it doesn't shed the same type of endotoxins that borrelia and some other bacteria do, but it clearly does something. I don't think people have significantly increased bartonella-specific symptoms (herxing) when treating bartonella just because they also have Lyme disease. I suspect there are other reasons. Buhner indicates the symptoms are due to the specific cytokine inflammation pathways induced by the pathogens. If that's true, then "endotoxins" shed by "dying bacteria" may not be the cause of herxing.

mpost
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   Posted 5/6/2018 8:40 AM (GMT -6)   
OriolCarol said...
and for example mpost, if I have a cat infected by Bartonella, and this one injures me recidivist, I will be more likely to get bart? or once my body generates antibodies, will I have immunity forever?


- yes if it scratches your skin then yes it is likely you will get bart from the cat.
- yes you will, but you need a functioning/healthy immune system for that to work

healthy people do not have a problem with bartonella. it's a very common bug, especially in pet owners. people do not get sick of bartonella, or when they do, it takes 1-2 months , hi fever, u will think u have flu. then it is over and it will never come back.

the reason it makes us so sick is our immune system is damaged. usually by borrelia.

another group of people that have terrible bartonella disease are the HIV/AIDS infected people that are not under antiviral treatment. So you see, it becomes bad only in people that have an immune dysfunction, not in the general population.

if you were to be able to remove every single cell of borrelia from your body forever, you will probably return to health without any bartonella or babesia treatment. your immune system simply will remove these bacteria/parasites.

OriolCarol
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Date Joined Dec 2017
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   Posted 5/6/2018 9:12 AM (GMT -6)   
mpost, do you think that the simple fact of being stressed, could trigger a chronic bartonella infection? or is it a myth to be immunocompromised by stress? I think people misuse that term ... if that were the case, it would act like an HIV.

I have positive igg for both, quintana and hensleae... 1/128... but never had fever and any typicall symptom of bart... anyway if i have bart, the treatment is not working vecause i don't have any relief of symptoms...

mpost
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Date Joined Feb 2015
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   Posted 5/6/2018 10:03 AM (GMT -6)   
no i do not think stress alone can trigger bart. but stress added ontop of other problems u may have and not be aware of, then sure , it can.

if u have chronic lyme u are aleady compromised to some extent, so add in some sleepless nights, stress and bad diet, and all the little demons in you will come to haunt you. Bart is just one of the many that can lie dormant for years and creep in when opportunity arises. others are EBV, MCV, candida, babesia, etc....

bart is not special, your immune system is for being so weak.

when the police is drunk all the small crooks are having a good time

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32617
   Posted 5/6/2018 10:15 AM (GMT -6)   
OriolCarol said...
mpost, do you think that the simple fact of being stressed, could trigger a chronic bartonella infection? or is it a myth to be immunocompromised by stress? I think people misuse that term ... if that were the case, it would act like an HIV.

I have positive igg for both, quintana and hensleae... 1/128... but never had fever and any typicall symptom of bart... anyway if i have bart, the treatment is not working vecause i don't have any relief of symptoms...


You’ve only been treating Bart for about a month or two ?

It can take longer than that to lessen your symptoms .

This is not a quick fix - many months to years - so dig in your heals and fight this motherf—-er
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

mpost
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Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1522
   Posted 5/6/2018 10:28 AM (GMT -6)   
WalkingbyFaith said...
Buhner does state in his bartonella book that research shows bartonella has been found in salivary glands. I do not think any research has been done to determine whether or not it is actually transmitted from person to person via saliva.


it is called 'cat scratch disease' not 'cat kiss disease' for a reason. these bacteria live in blood, stomach is not a good place for them to pass through. they are easily killed when not inside a blood or endothelial cell

it is in the salivary glands so it can be transmitted when u get bitten. it is also making the animal/human more angry (bart rage) so that chances it becomes violent and scratches/bites someone are higher.

but again, direct blood access has to be made available. a wound. by scratches, insect bites, dog bites, cat bites, etc. u got the idea.

but u will not get it by kissing someone just because that person has it in his or her salivary glands....

Post Edited (mpost) : 5/6/2018 10:33:06 AM (GMT-6)


OriolCarol
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Date Joined Dec 2017
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   Posted 5/6/2018 12:56 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm concerned... because i think that if i have Bart i'm nearly dead....

I've been a stupid with abx, because i've stopped rifampicin and rifabutin several times... the most powerful abx...

I have this in my arm... some doctors say that it's bart,but i showed it at bart doctor via email and he said that it can be other infections... it's not indicative of bart... anyway i'm lost..

https://ibb.co/hzthYn

WalkingbyFaith
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Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1680
   Posted 5/6/2018 1:12 PM (GMT -6)   
OriolCarol said...
I'm concerned... because i think that if i have Bart i'm nearly dead....

I've been a stupid with abx, because i've stopped rifampicin and rifabutin several times... the most powerful abx...

I have this in my arm... some doctors say that it's bart,but i showed it at bart doctor via email and he said that it can be other infections... it's not indicative of bart... anyway i'm lost..

/ibb.co/hzthYn


I looked at your picture and also inserted an URL so people can click on the link.

It looks like some kind of rash. Hard to say if it's from bartonella or not.

Thinking your half dead if you have bartonella - that's fear talking.

Post Edited (WalkingbyFaith) : 5/6/2018 1:16:44 PM (GMT-6)


OriolCarol
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 557
   Posted 5/6/2018 1:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Yes, it appeared one year ago, when i didn't have any noticiable symptom...

mpost
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1522
   Posted 5/6/2018 2:11 PM (GMT -6)   
half dead because u have bart!? dude this is not ebola... it's bart. many cats have it. many pet owners have it.
yours is nastier because your immune system is not working well. but this is a parasite not a killer...

take it easy.

OriolCarol
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 557
   Posted 5/6/2018 6:42 PM (GMT -6)   
If i deteriorate more... i will put levaquin sad but it'll be my last option...because I don't have any idea whatever i'm treating...

I have severe osteoarthritis in my back with only 23 years, and my tmj is severe damage... last year i was fine and now i'm a zombie...

WalkingbyFaith
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Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1680
   Posted 5/6/2018 7:44 PM (GMT -6)   
OriolCarol,

Were you having all the symptoms you have now before you started treating and taking all the antibiotics?

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32617
   Posted 5/6/2018 8:20 PM (GMT -6)   
OriolCarol said...
If i deteriorate more... i will put levaquin sad but it'll be my last option...because I don't have any idea whatever i'm treating...

I have severe osteoarthritis in my back with only 23 years, and my tmj is severe damage... last year i was fine and now i'm a zombie...


You are still taking the Rifampin, right?

There's also Rifabutin that you can try as well.


Just be aware of the black box warning for levaquin.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

OriolCarol
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 557
   Posted 5/7/2018 6:37 AM (GMT -6)   
Yes Girlie, but i took rifabutin two times... i make a mistake with abxs...

I reserve levaquin for an extreme case... but it's the most powerfull abx for bart right? Burrascano say that it goes intracellullar, extracellullar, brain, csf etc...

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32617
   Posted 5/7/2018 8:21 AM (GMT -6)   
OriolCarol said...
Yes Girlie, but i took rifabutin two times... i make a mistake with abxs...

I reserve levaquin for an extreme case... but it's the most powerfull abx for bart right? Burrascano say that it goes intracellullar, extracellullar, brain, csf etc...



Apparently it is the most effective for bart.

Rifabutin is also supposed to be better than Rifampin.

I'll see what the J clinic gives me for bart...hopefully my next appt in July/August.
I was hoping for sooner...before all my bart symptoms reappear.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi
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