LLMD S.S. in NJ - Bad Experience

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cppoly
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts : 345
   Posted 5/7/2018 12:11 PM (GMT -6)   
I saw Dr. SS in Howell, NJ and I feel the need to give a review because it was a near complete waste of money and time for $350 for approximately 30 minutes. First of all, this doctor had very little to say or comment on. I had an idea of this going into the visit based upon the help of your reviews in another thread so I brought a lot of questions and at least expected a conversation if I kept asking questions and kept the conversation going. However, his responses were not very explanatory and were a few sentences at most. He didn’t even start off the consult to bother to ask why I was there or how I was doing. Instead he just shook my hand and was just reading off a checklist of symptoms on his paperwork. Eventually, I had to interrupt him to say that I would like to give my story so he had an idea of what I went through and what I was currently experiencing instead of being seen as check boxes.

In addition to the above, he said some things that were questionable advice regarding Lyme coming from a LLMD. Since I was told from a prior LLMD that I had mycoplasma in the brain, I told him I read Stephen Buhner’s books and was concerned that antibiotics would not be effective since they do not cross the blood brain barrier (BBB) or at least don't do a good job there. He told me this was completely untrue. So who is right him or Buhner? I trust Stephen Buhner personally.

He also told me that even though I had positive Lyme and babesia results that he needed me to be retested since they were 4 years old. He said that positive results don’t stay in the blood forever and I’ve been treated by other LLMDs so I needed to be retested. Here’s the thing, I’ve had the symptom for well over four years (about 10 to 15 years) and it has only gotten worse up until now. Treatment has not made it better whatsoever. Additionally, blood tests aren’t very reliable and I thought it was odd for a LLMD to treat based on test results instead of symptoms. Because Lyme, co-infections can HIDE from lab results. He wanted a $250 Igenix western blot test and a repeat of co-infections from a local lab even though I had two positive results for Lyme C6 peptide tests and two positive babesia tests. So I asked him another way, would he treat me NOW if I had these results and he said YES. So why are you making me repeat these tests which are many times unreliable....

Normally I wouldn’t have felt compelled to write this review for a normal doctor, but this someone who is considered Lyme literate and recommended on this board.

The ONLY good news of this trip was that even though I had only one symptom out of the checklist of about 60, he told me he has seen this before (thank god I have at least one take away). As I was leaving, there a few others in the waiting room. It just felt like an assembly line being there (ya know get in get out, don't ask too many questions oh and yea cough up $350).

On a side note, does anyone know how to contact Stephen Buhner? I would like to share this experience but his website no longer accepts new Q&A.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32685
   Posted 5/7/2018 12:44 PM (GMT -6)   
"In addition to the above, he said some things that were questionable advice regarding Lyme coming from a LLMD. Since I was told from a prior LLMD that I had mycoplasma in the brain, I told him I read Stephen Buhner’s books and was concerned that antibiotics would not be effective since they do not cross the blood brain barrier (BBB) or at least don't do a good job there. He told me this was completely untrue. So who is right him or Buhner? I trust Stephen Buhner personally. "

Antibiotics DO cross the blood/brain barrier...some better than others. How do you think neurolyme is treated then? So, he is correct.
Which book did buhner say that? I would trust the LLMD on that one because people who are treating with antibiotics do get well..and neurolyme is common.

The testing - that is a legitimate concern of yours'. You don't want a Dr. who is basing treatment on repeated test results being positive.

I don't know how to contact S. Buhner and if he is even available to answer questions.
You could call one of his recommended herbalists...but I think it would cost you.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

cppoly
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts : 345
   Posted 5/7/2018 1:09 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks, but for him to say that it's completely untrue is a little misleading as it suggests that antibiotics can cross the BBB easily and are very effective. Buhner's point is that antibiotics are very poor at crossing the BBB.

From my notes from Healing Lyme 2nd Edition, I have "The subtle bacterial manipulations that occur in the brain and central nervous system are rarely amenable to pharmaceuticals."

So at the very least this is a contradiction here between a LLMD and Buhner. A more detailed description from Buhner would be nice. Wish I could contact him.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32685
   Posted 5/7/2018 1:17 PM (GMT -6)   
cppoly said...
Thanks, but for him to say that it's completely untrue is a little misleading as it suggests that antibiotics can cross the BBB easily and are very effective. Buhner's point is that antibiotics are very poor at crossing the BBB.

From my notes from Healing Lyme 2nd Edition, I have "The subtle bacterial manipulations that occur in the brain and central nervous system are rarely amenable to pharmaceuticals."

So at the very least this is a contradiction here between a LLMD and Buhner. A more detailed description from Buhner would be nice. Wish I could contact him.



Well, Dr. J in an interview basically said the same thing. I think his words about them not crossing blood/brain barrier were "it's a misnomer"
He says they do get into the brain.
...how do you think all the people that are treated by abx are getting rid of their brain symptoms from neurolyme?
They are effective - since people are getting better with them.

I'm taking antibiotics...and I've reduced my brain symptoms a lot.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

sierraDon
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2016
Total Posts : 184
   Posted 5/7/2018 4:26 PM (GMT -6)   
seems like despite PA and NJ's endemic status, complete lack of good LLMDs here.

OriolCarol
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 563
   Posted 5/7/2018 5:04 PM (GMT -6)   
Could Buhner cure meningitis, encephalitis, meningoencephalitis, lyme mimic ALS with herbs? I respect Buhner but he's saying a nonsense...

cppoly
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts : 345
   Posted 5/21/2018 7:11 AM (GMT -6)   
Well I got a clarification from Buhner about antibiotics crossing the BBB and the reference from his book saying something along the lines that the subtle bacterial manipulations that occur in the brain and central nervous system are rarely amenable to pharmaceuticals. I told him I took this to mean that they do a poor job in the brain.

Here's his response:

Some antibiotics are more systemic than others. in general the problem is not that they will not cross the blood brain barrier but two things:

1) They may kill the bacteria but they won't correct any structural damage to the brain.
2) They often do not kill the bacteria because the bacteria are sequestered in hard to reach places in the body that antibiotics cannot reach OR the bacteria have generated forms that are not amenable to antibiotics.

His response makes complete sense to me.

afiya4health
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts : 193
   Posted 5/21/2018 8:34 AM (GMT -6)   
cppoly

I dont understand. You clearly want to do Buhner so why did you go to an llmd who outright treats with antibiotics in the first place??

I didnt like Dr. S when i saw him but everyone online and this forum knows he uses antibiotics, so why did you even make an appointment with him if your just going to argue with him over what some herbalist says??

If you believe Buhner, then follow buhner. And the fact that you only have 1 symptom might indicate that you dont have lyme anymore..

cppoly
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts : 345
   Posted 5/21/2018 9:13 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks afiya, good observation. I went there for diagnosis purposes only and a second opinion (knowing that he primarily uses abx). I was hoping I would get a clarification that a LLMD can definitively tell me I have Lyme and babesia before I start doing Buhner protocol. Although, I was also told that this doctor does alternative medicine using Byron White so I was hoping he would be open to Buhner and his herbals. So I was willing to spend $350 for a diagnosis and even then I ended up walking away like I wasted money since he wanted me retested for everything even though I already have positive blood work.

My last post was just to share some information with the board about antibiotics crossing the BBB.

OriolCarol
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 563
   Posted 5/21/2018 10:29 AM (GMT -6)   
They often do not kill the bacteria because the bacteria are sequestered in hard to reach places in the body that antibiotics cannot reach OR the bacteria have generated forms that are not amenable to antibiotics.

He's wrong, so wrong.... and herbs reach places where abx can not enter? Minocycline, doxycycline etc... enter in all tissues...

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32685
   Posted 5/21/2018 11:09 AM (GMT -6)   
cppoly said...
Well I got a clarification from Buhner about antibiotics crossing the BBB and the reference from his book saying something along the lines that the subtle bacterial manipulations that occur in the brain and central nervous system are rarely amenable to pharmaceuticals. I told him I took this to mean that they do a poor job in the brain.

Here's his response:

Some antibiotics are more systemic than others. in general the problem is not that they will not cross the blood brain barrier but two things:

1) They may kill the bacteria but they won't correct any structural damage to the brain.
2) They often do not kill the bacteria because the bacteria are sequestered in hard to reach places in the body that antibiotics cannot reach OR the bacteria have generated forms that are not amenable to antibiotics.

His response makes complete sense to me.


1)Well herbs won't correct structural damage either - if you're talking about things like brain tumors, Chiari, ...

2) What "hard-to-reach" places is he saying that abx don't reach? I think the brain is the one we think of...but they do get into the brain...some better than others'.


If the bloodstream can carry herbs to 'hard to reach' places, it can do so with abx too.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi
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