B6 Toxicity????

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Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
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   Posted 5/7/2018 4:33 PM (GMT -6)   
i had extensive labs done for the J Clinic.

Everything in range - except for the B6 - just got the results today.

range 20-96 mine = 209

So, this is strange as I'm not supplementing with B's daily...just now and then.

I used to years ago...

When I read about B6 toxicity - it describes most of my remaining symptoms. The nerve pain, the POTS, etc. (it can affect CNS and PNS)

Anyone have knowledge about this? Is that high enough to cause nerve irritation/damage?

When I googled (yikes) - the stories worry me - some people had improvement, others' not after discontinuing it. But, many (most) reported not full healing of the damaged nerves.

So, that blood test represents what's in your blood. How do you know how much is getting into the tissues...or is that irrelevant?


sheesh - always something to worry about with this disease.


I'm not going to take anymore of my B complex. I wonder if I should cut out food sources as well:

Your thoughts?

My GP said it's water soluble and you can't get too much...well that's not true!!!
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Noah2112
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 129
   Posted 5/7/2018 4:39 PM (GMT -6)   
I think it's vitamin B12 that's water soluble and you can't get too much of it, that's what I've heard at least. I don't know about other B vitamins, though.

WalkingbyFaith
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Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 2041
   Posted 5/7/2018 4:45 PM (GMT -6)   
Check all your supplements, drinks, smoothies, etc.

I had something similar with zinc. A year and a half ago when I first had labs done, my RBC zinc levels were high. These infections are supposed to cause the opposite. On the labs I just had, the zinc is now low.

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33957
   Posted 5/7/2018 5:26 PM (GMT -6)   
Noah2112 said...
I think it's vitamin B12 that's water soluble and you can't get too much of it, that's what I've heard at least. I don't know about other B vitamins, though.


B6 is water soluable but apparently you can get too much of it.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33957
   Posted 5/7/2018 5:28 PM (GMT -6)   
WalkingbyFaith said...
Check all your supplements, drinks, smoothies, etc.

I had something similar with zinc. A year and a half ago when I first had labs done, my RBC zinc levels were high. These infections are supposed to cause the opposite. On the labs I just had, the zinc is now low.


I don’t take any supplements that contain b6 except for the one Swanson b’s.

Don’t drink any smoothie mixes.

Very odd .

I’m going to ask for a retest in a few months

WBF - did you change anything to affect the zinc level ?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33957
   Posted 5/7/2018 8:00 PM (GMT -6)   
Bumpity bump
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

1000Daisies
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Date Joined Apr 2016
Total Posts : 2474
   Posted 5/7/2018 9:01 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie, I don't know what to say on this except that between all of us, we've had unexplained high levels of something or another. And when we retest, they are back in normal ranges.

This recently happened with high iron (too high!) for my youngest kid, despite not being on any iron supplements whatsoever for months (he was on low iron supplement previously though). I was extremely concerned. But when I retested at the next appointment, the levels were all normal range again. I have no good reason why the spike and then decrease/normal (unless it was a very very delayed reaction to previous supplement).
Kid#1: Extremely sick for several years, very difficult to treat, but doing great now!
Kid#2: Still sick now despite being treated for years but doing better (not well yet).
Kid#3: Generally good but relapsing off/on.
Me: Adv Labs positive 2016 (suspected I passed to my kids)-not as sick as others, mostly battling fatigue and yeast issues (heart/kidney issues resolved)
Treating with herbals now.

WalkingbyFaith
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Date Joined Aug 2017
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   Posted 5/7/2018 9:30 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie,

No. I didn't change anything to affect the zinc.

mpost
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Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1527
   Posted 5/8/2018 12:19 AM (GMT -6)   
yeah my B6 levels were 5 times above the maximum too. i used to take supplements and i just stopped. After 8 months i remeasured and they went down to more manageable levels (so around 1.5x above max). It goes down very slowly.

I have not been taking B vitamins since.

which of the Swanson B complex products are you taking ? They have lots of variants
/www.swansonvitamins.com/vitamin-b-complexes

ill bet my money this is because of Swanson B and i would advise you stop taking this immediately. At least my LLMD told me to do this when she saw my B6 levels.

Very hi B6 levels can cause nerve damage and can give u peripheral neuropathy. Not from the lyme!

BrookieGirl
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 74
   Posted 5/8/2018 12:28 AM (GMT -6)   
Very interesting, Girlie. I experienced the same thing. I had a b6 test back in January that came back 3 times the normal range. I wasn't supplementing with anything relevant to B6. My LLMD retested me last month and my N6 was normal. I too have nerve pain, POTS, numbness... can't say how to fix it, but just wanted to share I experiemeced the same weird phenomenon.

Best of luck.

Village Crazy Lady
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 386
   Posted 5/8/2018 12:58 AM (GMT -6)   
Hey Girlie

Tests before seeing my LLMD in Oct 2016 showed my B6 was way too high.

My regular drs response was to come let her draw off blood, weird huh?

I didn’t do that because the initial visit with LLMD they drained 12 tubes for testing. I figured that was the same lol.

I need to see what’s up there, you think it could be part of the latest constant numb and tingling in my hands at night?

VCL
~~~Your Life is an Occasion, Rise to It ~~~

Lyme,Bart,Molds,Candida,Cpn,Myco,Ebv,Cmv,MTHFR,Lead.
Symptoms for years and years, Diag 6/2016, LLMD 10/2016
Treating with Abx and company

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5098
   Posted 5/8/2018 1:19 AM (GMT -6)   
I also had high B6 a couple years ago. I made some posts about it back rhen. No answer's, it eventualy fixed itself.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33957
   Posted 5/8/2018 1:20 AM (GMT -6)   
mpost said...
yeah my B6 levels were 5 times above the maximum too. i used to take supplements and i just stopped. After 8 months i remeasured and they went down to more manageable levels (so around 1.5x above max). It goes down very slowly.

I have not been taking B vitamins since.

which of the Swanson B complex products are you taking ? They have lots of variants
/www.swansonvitamins.com/vitamin-b-complexes

ill bet my money this is because of Swanson B and i would advise you stop taking this immediately. At least my LLMD told me to do this when she saw my B6 levels.

Very hi B6 levels can cause nerve damage and can give u peripheral neuropathy. Not from the lyme!


I'm taking the Swanson methylated B's.
Re: nerve damage - that's what I'm concerned about because I read not only peripheral neuropathy, but CNS damage as well...and that pretty much is what most - if not all my remaining symptoms are.


/www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-activated-b-complex-high-bioavailability-60-veg-caps
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33957
   Posted 5/8/2018 1:23 AM (GMT -6)   
Village Crazy Lady said...
Hey Girlie

Tests before seeing my LLMD in Oct 2016 showed my B6 was way too high.

My regular drs response was to come let her draw off blood, weird huh?

I didn’t do that because the initial visit with LLMD they drained 12 tubes for testing. I figured that was the same lol.

I need to see what’s up there, you think it could be part of the latest constant numb and tingling in my hands at night?

VCL


I'm still trying to wrap my head around your dr wanting you to draw off blood....that may lower your iron/hemoglobin levels....but B6???

Re: tingling hands....this is what I'm trying to figure out now...because from what I'm reading it certainly can cause nerve damage.

Look at this:

/www.peoplespharmacy.com/2017/05/15/will-overdosing-on-vitamin-b6-cause-irreversible-nerve-damage/

She mentioned 'internal vibrations' - holy - that was a symptom that came on about 4 months after my lyme symptoms started. (but that was in 2013.)
I'm trying to think back - maybe I was gulping back the b's then...and caused something..But I know that in the past couple years I haven't been supplementing with B's. (except for B12) until I purchased the Swanson bottle about 6 months to a year ago.

I am still on that first bottle of the Swanson B's . There's 60 in a bottle - looks like it's over half full. So I know I haven't been supplementing much.

/www.nytimes.com/1983/08/25/us/vitamin-is-linked-to-nerve-damage.html

I've read a few blog posts when googling - and not everyone has been supplementing prior to having high levels...sheesh....I guess I needed another thing to worry about.....
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Post Edited (Girlie) : 5/8/2018 12:37:59 AM (GMT-6)


Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33957
   Posted 5/8/2018 1:32 AM (GMT -6)   
1000Daisies said...
Girlie, I don't know what to say on this except that between all of us, we've had unexplained high levels of something or another. And when we retest, they are back in normal ranges.

This recently happened with high iron (too high!) for my youngest kid, despite not being on any iron supplements whatsoever for months (he was on low iron supplement previously though). I was extremely concerned. But when I retested at the next appointment, the levels were all normal range again. I have no good reason why the spike and then decrease/normal (unless it was a very very delayed reaction to previous supplement).


I do plan on re-testing in a month or so. This is a test that I had to pay for though...

Most of my lab work doesn't cost anything...but the J clinic wanted a huge number of things tested...and about 6 or 7 tests I had to pay for.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Post Edited (Girlie) : 5/8/2018 12:38:35 AM (GMT-6)


Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33957
   Posted 5/8/2018 1:33 AM (GMT -6)   
BrookieGirl said...
Very interesting, Girlie. I experienced the same thing. I had a b6 test back in January that came back 3 times the normal range. I wasn't supplementing with anything relevant to B6. My LLMD retested me last month and my N6 was normal. I too have nerve pain, POTS, numbness... can't say how to fix it, but just wanted to share I experiemeced the same weird phenomenon.

Best of luck.


Thanks - hopefully mine will come down soon.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33957
   Posted 5/8/2018 1:34 AM (GMT -6)   
astroman said...
I also had high B6 a couple years ago. I made some posts about it back rhen. No answer's, it eventualy fixed itself.


Until now...no one has been interested in my B6 level (GP, specialists or previous LLND) so I never even thought about it....
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

astroman
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5098
   Posted 5/8/2018 10:11 AM (GMT -6)   
Girlie said...
astroman said...
I also had high B6 a couple years ago. I made some posts about it back rhen. No answer's, it eventualy fixed itself.


Until now...no one has been interested in my B6 level (GP, specialists or previous LLND) so I never even thought about it....


So youve known this was elevated for a while?

When I posted several times here in the past, I had almost no responses, but Georgia Hunter. .

Seems there are many here with this now. I was in 400-500 range.

I researched it. Conclusion- cheap b6 will do this. They put cheap b6 in many grainy cerials ect- crap i dont buy anymore.

I take a high end multi with b6 and retested without issues several times.

A neuro dr was concerned about this in me. ****this test needs fasting if i remember right!!!!!

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33957
   Posted 5/8/2018 10:19 AM (GMT -6)   
astroman said...
Girlie said...
astroman said...
I also had high B6 a couple years ago. I made some posts about it back rhen. No answer's, it eventualy fixed itself.


Until now...no one has been interested in my B6 level (GP, specialists or previous LLND) so I never even thought about it....


So youve known this was elevated for a while?

When I posted several times here in the past, I had almost no responses, but Georgia Hunter. .

Seems there are many here with this now. I was in 400-500 range.

I researched it. Conclusion- cheap b6 will do this. They put cheap b6 in many grainy cerials ect- crap i dont buy anymore.

I take a high end multi with b6 and retested without issues several times.

A neuro dr was concerned about this in me. ****this test needs fasting if i remember right!!!!!



Never had b6 tested bfore the J clinic

And I do fast (12 hours) for my blood work - now that I’m with the J clinic. That’s what their instructions are.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

astroman
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5098
   Posted 5/8/2018 11:02 AM (GMT -6)   
Thing with high b6 is it might be pooling in blood- not getting used in cells. In that case, it might not be toxic.

I repeated this test by itself, its a normal lab test, just not known very well.

Of course there are non-fda b6 tests that do inner cell, but i never found one alone, always in a $400 panel.

"My GP said it's water soluble and you can't get too much...well that's not true!!!" - yep, we know thats not true. If you goggle it, there are many chronic fatigue people with pooling b6.

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33957
   Posted 5/8/2018 11:25 AM (GMT -6)   
astroman said...
Thing with high b6 is it might be pooling in blood- not getting used in cells. In that case, it might not be toxic.

I repeated this test by itself, its a normal lab test, just not known very well.

Of course there are non-fda b6 tests that do inner cell, but i never found one alone, always in a $400 panel.

"My GP said it's water soluble and you can't get too much...well that's not true!!!" - yep, we know thats not true. If you goggle it, there are many chronic fatigue people with pooling b6.


What I’ve read is nerve damage - and that’s my last symptoms to go - so that’s why I’m concerned.

My pots, nerve pain, shivering - all CNS stuff
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

acarined
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Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 231
   Posted 5/9/2018 3:56 PM (GMT -6)   
P5P is the worst offender for me, as little as 10 mg a day can be too much if I'm eating a lot of leafy green vegetables, at other times I can tolerate 50 mg. The burning it causes is primarily in my hands, and subsides in a few days when I stop.

mpost
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Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1527
   Posted 5/10/2018 12:48 AM (GMT -6)   
girly i think u are freaking out. u had 209 and max is 96. that is just twice above max, i personally do not think that is enough to cause nerve damage. remember what i wrote, i had 5 FIVE times the maximum, so in your case my number would have been 500. that was 3 years ago so i dont think it's that bad.

just cut down your B6, i looked over your B supplement and 25mg is a bit high but not crazily high. i used to take a supplement with around 35mg daily.

again, i would stop Bs if i were u or at least take half the dosage, there is no reason why 10mg is not enough ...

nerve damage is also the one that is the hardest to heal , so it is not shocking to hear it's your last lyme symptom go to... that is long lasting damage, it will take years to resolve. probably antibiotics have nothing to do with it.

Post Edited (mpost) : 5/10/2018 12:08:04 AM (GMT-6)


Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
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   Posted 5/10/2018 12:54 AM (GMT -6)   
acarined said...
P5P is the worst offender for me, as little as 10 mg a day can be too much if I'm eating a lot of leafy green vegetables, at other times I can tolerate 50 mg. The burning it causes is primarily in my hands, and subsides in a few days when I stop.


Yup, it's P5P - and it's 25 mg per.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33957
   Posted 5/10/2018 1:08 AM (GMT -6)   
mpost said...
girly i think u are freaking out. u had 209 and max is 96. that is just twice above max, i personally do not think that is enough to cause nerve damage. remember what i wrote, i had 5 FIVE times the maximum, so in your case my number would have been 500. that was 3 years ago so i dont think it's that bad.

just cut down your B6, i looked over your B supplement and 25mg is a bit high but not crazily high. i used to take a supplement with around 35mg daily.

again, i would stop Bs if i were u or at least take half the dosage, there is no reason why 10mg is not enough ...

nerve damage is also the one that is the worst to heal , so it is not shocking to hear it's your last lyme symptom go to... that is long lasting damage, it will take years to resolve. probably antibiotics have nothing to do with it.


I did read some blogs (after I went googling yesterday) and some people reported nerve damage from just slightly higher levels.
It seems to affect people differently.

Thing is I really haven't been taking that B complex much...maybe only a few times per month. I have the same bottle of Swanson I bought 6 months to a year ago...and there's still lots in there.

So, you're saying that my nerve damage is not active infection? I don't know - the symptoms do fluctuate - I do have days here and there where I'm almost asymptomatic.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi
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