Homeopathy Healing or Placebo effect? Limitations?

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ChickenArise
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   Posted 5/14/2018 6:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Is homeopathy Healing or Placebo effect?

If healing, then why havent I been able to use it to heal?

If placebo, then why havent I been able to use it to heal?

/www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HslUzw35mc

Do you have an opinion about homeopathy that differs from the 8 minute video above?

2014 Mold Sick,2015 Clinical Lyme and co.,2016 Morgellons,2017 Remission
YT: ClintFromNYtoVA2
Twitter: @ClintFromNYtoVA
updated 21apr18 Blog: www.fascinatingtimetobealive.blogspot.com/
" The path to disappointment is paved with expectations "

goshawk
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   Posted 5/15/2018 3:58 AM (GMT -6)   
bumping for more views

mpost
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Date Joined Feb 2015
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   Posted 5/15/2018 8:14 AM (GMT -6)   
i know some people on this forum think homeopathy helps and i respect their opinion.

my personal opinion is homeopathy is complete placebo. There has been not even one trial that showed any effect outside placebo. Please go ahead and challenge me on that, i want to believe other healing techniques exist , am open minded, been treated myself with herbs for years. But forgive me, i cannot take your word for it, i need to see some studies...

The entire idea behind homeopathy is ridiculous, chemicals extracted from some plants or animals are diluted on less than 1 part per billion and even less sometimes, and it is thought it will have an effect. Absolutely everything we know from medicine, physics and common sense tell u this is not the case. and again, no tests show any benefit what so ever, for any treatment.

For herbs and herbal preparations, u can find lots of medical peer reviewed papers showing antimicrobial, anti inflammatory effects, and even placebo controlled trials. Plants contain LOTS of chemicals and some have antibacterial properties because bacteria well they sometimes infect plant too, not just humans... So it makes a little bit of sense.

Please do not confuse herbal treatment with homeopathy. They are NOT THE SAME THING.

In case of herbs, sometimes there are proven benefits in placebo controlled tests. No proven benefits with homeopathy in any placebo controlled tests, anywhere...

Anyway, again, my personal opinion, i respect others' and do not want to start a "war" here ...

Noah2112
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 56
   Posted 5/15/2018 9:20 AM (GMT -6)   
mpost, I completely agree with you. The placebo effect is very real and if it means it helps some people feel better, that's great. But that's all there is to homeopathy.

mudshark
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Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 121
   Posted 5/15/2018 8:43 PM (GMT -6)   
mpost said...
i know some people on this forum think homeopathy helps and i respect their opinion.

my personal opinion is homeopathy is complete placebo. There has been not even one trial that showed any effect outside placebo. . .


I had an experience from homeopathy that is hard to discount. I developed a cough a few years ago after eating and my wife (the nurse) said it was probably reflux. I thought she was insane because I'd had heartburn like 4 times in my life. She convinced me to go to a gastroenterologist and they agreed with her, then did an endoscopy to take a look. They found a small area at the base of my esophagus where cellular changes were taking place because of the exposure to stomach acid - pre-Barrett's Esophagus. It was a couple mutations away from cancer of the esophagus, so they told me to take Prilosec the rest of my life and come back every 3 years for a follow up endoscopy.

After a few weeks on the Prilosec I read about how bad it was for you, so I quit taking it cold turkey. I was in a mess for several months after that and eventually went to see a homeopathic doctor that several friends swear by. Long story short after 2-3 months on the homeopathic remedy and some supplements I was back to normal and felt better than ever digestive-wise. As an added bonus the occasional prostatitis symptoms I experienced for many years totally disappeared. The bloating issues I dealt with for years were also completely gone. When I had my 1st follow up endoscopy 3 years later the area was completely back to normal and I was told there was no need for further follow up.

My ND wasn't able to help me much with the Lyme/Bart infection, although he diagnosed me long before my LLMD did, but I credit him with curing my digestive issues.

Post Edited (mudshark) : 5/15/2018 8:46:35 PM (GMT-6)


The Dude Abides
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Date Joined May 2017
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   Posted 5/16/2018 1:41 AM (GMT -6)   
hahaha - Great video.

Albeing slightly less entertaining, I've seen some videos by James Randi on the subject.

James Randi Explains Homeopathy
/youtu.be/lmOfEoDcjks

Homeopathy, Quackery and Fraud - James Randi
/youtu.be/c0Z7KeNCi7g

In the second video, James swallows the contents of an entire bottle of homeopathic sleeping pills - to no effect. He states he's been doing this same thing for 8-10 years. I've found similar YouTube videos of others who have done the same thing - sometimes, by large crowds of people.

So, there's that.

But, I also have read about and talked to people who swear homeopathy worked for them. Placebo? Who knows? A placebo effect is STILL an effect, as you noted.

Googling the matter, of course, will yield all sorts of articles stating that numerous studies have shown that homeopathy doesn't work.

1,800 Studies Later, Scientists Conclude Homeopathy Doesn't Work
/bit.ly/2KrOUPS

Homeopathy 'Treatments' Must Be Labelled To Say They Do Not Work, US Government Orders
/ind.pn/2rKB2Zu
/bit.ly/2f71t3j

Homeopathy Doesn't Work For Cows, Either
/bit.ly/2wKrYJU

Personally, over the years, I've tried perhaps a dozen over-the-counter homeopathic remedies. Of those, exactly zero have worked for me.

Recently, I spoke to a Chiropractor, regarding homeopathy. I explained my lack of success, as well as my skepticism about it. She told me I need to stop thinking of things with my logical mind and start thinking in "Quantum Physics" terms.

Good Lord.

(Fortunately, I was on the telephone, because I rolled my eyes so hard, I briefly glimpsed my cerebellum. When I hear stuff like that, I know the person has watched "The Secret" too many times.)

After she mentioned ionic foot baths, I knew I had to quickly bring the discussion to a close, before we started talking about crystals, chakras, or opening my third eye.

Although I'm willing to try it again, have a different experience, and change my opinion, currently, I don't find homeopathy to be effective for me.

WalkingbyFaith
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Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1682
   Posted 5/16/2018 7:30 AM (GMT -6)   
"(Fortunately, I was on the telephone, because I rolled my eyes so hard, I briefly glimpsed my cerebellum. When I hear stuff like that, I know the person has watched "The Secret" too many times.)

After she mentioned ionic foot baths, I knew I had to quickly bring the discussion to a close, before we started talking about crystals, chakras, or opening my third eye."

Dude,

You're hilarious!!!! Thank you for the morning dose of endorphins. 😁

ArtAngel
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2016
Total Posts : 321
   Posted 5/16/2018 8:41 AM (GMT -6)   
A homeopathist I went to told me only 20% of people respond really well to homeopathy. My neighbours swear by it. The homepathist/naturopath said she wouldn't give me homeopathy until I had done a proper heavy metal detox.
But even with that homeopathy was just money down the drain for me.

The Dude Abides
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Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 1135
   Posted 5/16/2018 8:55 AM (GMT -6)   
ArtAngel said...
A homeopathist I went to told me only 20% of people respond really well to homeopathy. My neighbours swear by it. The homepathist/naturopath said she wouldn't give me homeopathy until I had done a proper heavy metal detox.
But even with that homeopathy was just money down the drain for me.


How on Earth would a profession with an 80% failure rate continue to survive? It's obviously not because of repeat business.

mpost
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Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1522
   Posted 5/16/2018 2:14 PM (GMT -6)   
The Dude Abides said...

How on Earth would a profession with an 80% failure rate continue to survive? It's obviously not because of repeat business.


control (water) kills 15-17% of borrelia in vitro. duck liver dilluted one parts per billion is also probably killing 15-17% borrelia in vitro, and in vivo !! cool

best business on the planet: homeopathy!!
- u cannot kill any patient as u literally sell them water or small amounts of sugar
- u choose to treat conditions that are generally not deadly and tend to resolve by themselves - flu, allergic attacks, etc...
- u refuse selling treatment for any severely ill people - your legal department told you it is wise to do that
- u only use the best duck liver u can possibly buy on your continent. You only need one duck liver per year to produce 50 billion doses of pure homeopathic gold
- u price this treatment at 20$ a bottle and brag you are more expensive than competitors because the water or sugar u use is hi quality H2o or fructose harvested using ecological agriculture

The Dude Abides
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Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 1135
   Posted 5/16/2018 2:50 PM (GMT -6)   
mpost said...
control (water) kills 15-17% of borrelia in vitro. duck liver dilluted one parts per billion is also probably killing 15-17% borrelia in vitro, and in vivo !! cool

best business on the planet: homeopathy!!
- u cannot kill any patient as u literally sell them water or small amounts of sugar
- u choose to treat conditions that are generally not deadly and tend to resolve by themselves - flu, allergic attacks, etc...
- u refuse selling treatment for any severely ill people - your legal department told you it is wise to do that
- u only use the best duck liver u can possibly buy on your continent. You only need one duck liver per year to produce 50 billion doses of pure homeopathic gold
- u price this treatment at 20$ a bottle and brag you are more expensive than competitors because the water or sugar u use is hi quality H2o or fructose harvested using ecological agriculture


Thanks, mpost! I think you just wrote a business plan for me!

I wonder if Josh Axe is a homeopath?

/youtu.be/wO59q1o18hE?t=2m38s

mpost
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1522
   Posted 5/16/2018 3:25 PM (GMT -6)   
The Dude Abides said...


I wonder if Josh Axe is a homeopath?

/youtu.be/wO59q1o18hE?t=2m38s



LoL this was really funny!

countingstarsx
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2016
Total Posts : 299
   Posted 5/16/2018 6:43 PM (GMT -6)   
I am treating with homeopathy with success. I wouldnt be able to do it on my own, you really need to see a trained homeopath to help you pick the right remedies. I plan to go to school to be a homeopath sometime in the next few years because of the success I've had. I actually just cured a tooth infection with homeopathy, it was like a miracle.

The thing is that it really is energy medicine, it isn't physical chemicals having an effect as everyone thinks is the point.

That said, its totally not for some people. That's cool with me.

mpost
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Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1522
   Posted 5/16/2018 11:33 PM (GMT -6)   
countingstarsx said...
I am treating with homeopathy with success. I wouldnt be able to do it on my own, you really need to see a trained homeopath to help you pick the right remedies. I plan to go to school to be a homeopath sometime in the next few years because of the success I've had. I actually just cured a tooth infection with homeopathy, it was like a miracle.

The thing is that it really is energy medicine, it isn't physical chemicals having an effect as everyone thinks is the point.

That said, its totally not for some people. That's cool with me.


i respect your beliefs and your treatment. But at least are you aware how easy is for anyone to trick you into selling you stuff they say is impregnated with energy when actually it's not ?

Cascades
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2017
Total Posts : 15
   Posted 5/17/2018 1:21 AM (GMT -6)   
I won't argue but will say that I have used homeopathy since the mid 70's, most recently with the complete remission of all Lyme symptoms, whether it is the placebo effect or not I'll take it and it was not at all expensive................................................................

countingstarsx
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2016
Total Posts : 299
   Posted 5/18/2018 12:18 AM (GMT -6)   
mpost said...
countingstarsx said...
I am treating with homeopathy with success. I wouldnt be able to do it on my own, you really need to see a trained homeopath to help you pick the right remedies. I plan to go to school to be a homeopath sometime in the next few years because of the success I've had. I actually just cured a tooth infection with homeopathy, it was like a miracle.

The thing is that it really is energy medicine, it isn't physical chemicals having an effect as everyone thinks is the point.

That said, its totally not for some people. That's cool with me.


i respect your beliefs and your treatment. But at least are you aware how easy is for anyone to trick you into selling you stuff they say is impregnated with energy when actually it's not ?


You respect it, but still try to tell me I easily could be being scammed?

Well, I would rather be scammed for $12 than hundreds. Ive never regreted a homeopathic purchase. The money I have spent has been well spent, and the health gains I have made have been worth it.

It amazes me how open to homeopathy other countries are, but Americans are so anti something they have never tried or even researched in depth enough to grasp a basic understanding.

There are professional, well respected homeopathic pharmacies. I don't buy remedies off some guy on the street. As with anything you put into your body you have to verify you have a good source.

mpost
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Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1522
   Posted 5/18/2018 12:52 AM (GMT -6)   
countingstarsx said...

You respect it, but still try to tell me I easily could be being scammed?


yes, i do. i am not saying all homeopaths are scammers.

but if your pill production means you need to dilute duck liver to one part per billion, then you can find scammers that will just skip the duck liver and sell you water or sugar. it's easier for them, you don't need extra stuff.

but you will not be able to prove it in courts. the pills will be identical to the ones produced by real homeopaths that do not have ill intent and really may be trying to produce some medication. because the dilution is so high there can be nothing left in the pill.

my point is anything on this planet that cannot be proven in courts can be abused. has nothing to do with homeopathy. this is how justice works. so please be careful who is treating you, that is all im saying.

and apologies if i offended anyone here that is following this type of treatment.

B99
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 94
   Posted 5/18/2018 8:06 AM (GMT -6)   
When my kids were babies, twins, they started getting ear infections after every cold. All the pediatrician was able to do was to prescribe antibiotics. After 3 rounds of AB in less than a year, I started looking for alternatives!

This is where homeopathy came in. Both babies' reaction was immediate. The cold symptoms resolved by I'd say 90%, and were NOT followed by the usual ear infection. Now these are babies we're talking about, which I'd say eliminates the placebo effect argument. And, there were two of them, same age, same bug, same reaction to the medication.

We continued using this remedy with every cold for years. And it worked for years. If they got a cold and missed the remedy, the ear infection would show up again. Catch up on the remedy and it cleared up overnight. Every time.

I started taking the same remedy for colds, and it worked astonishingly well. My husband took it too, and it barely had an effect. According to classical homeopathy, it wasn't the right remedy for his physiognomy, so he would need to try another. He never bothered to, but his colds were never terrible.

Needless to say, we used homeopathy for everything as our kids were growing up. And it worked for everything.

Homeopathy is used all over the world with a lot of success. Based on our experience, I can certainly understand it. I have other experiences with H, but this post is getting too long already.

Best to everyone.

ChickenArise
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Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 1510
   Posted 5/20/2018 10:36 PM (GMT -6)   
Interesting articles on the subject:

Extreme Bias in FTC's Ruling on Homeopathic Medicine
by Dana Ullman, MPH, CCH

www.townsendletter.com/April2017/biasFTC0417.html

Healing with Homeopathy
A Defense of Homeopathy
by Judyth Reichenberg-Ullman, ND, MSW;
Robert Ullman, ND; Dana Ullman, MPH, CCH; and Richard Moskowitz, MD


www.townsendletter.com/FebMarch2017/homeo0217.html

2014 Mold Sick,2015 Clinical Lyme and co.,2016 Morgellons,2017 Remission
YT: ClintFromNYtoVA2
Twitter: @ClintFromNYtoVA
updated 21apr18 Blog: www.fascinatingtimetobealive.blogspot.com/
" The path to disappointment is paved with expectations "

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1682
   Posted 5/21/2018 9:47 AM (GMT -6)   
ChickenArise,

Thanks for those articles. Very interesting.

mpost,

As far as being scammed, for people buying remedies at the health store, I don't see where it's any different than buying herbs or supplements. We all know there's no guarantee that the herbs/supplements are going to work for us the same way they worked for someone else. We're all gambling with our money and tend to invest in what we put the most faith in.

I've never used homeopathy, but now I'm thinking maybe I shouldn't dismiss it so easily. It's just much harder to wrap my head around than herbs.

claude783
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts : 160
   Posted 5/21/2018 9:48 AM (GMT -6)   
I really don't know if this is a placebo or not.

So, coming at this from another angle kind of a round about thought.

A few micro grams of some substances can kill. Look at people with allergies. A drop of "something" and they can go into anaplylactic shock. Take the the LSD drug which has effects in the micro gram range.

So, it is quite possible that some substances could be benefical in small amounts.

B99
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 94
   Posted 5/23/2018 9:25 AM (GMT -6)   
ChickenArise, thanks for posting that excellent article by Dana Ullman. It's actually his book, Everybody's Guide To Homeopathic Medicines, or something like that, which we used when raising our children.

I want to post a quote from his article for people who don't have time to read the entire thing, because I believe it's an important point regarding the argument there's nothing left of the highly diluted remedies, therefore how can they work. Homeopathic remedies seem to function in a way not completely understood, YET, but are effective.

"Additional obvious bias was evidenced when the FTC's ruling cited old and incorrect information asserting that homeopathic medicine is "so diluted that no single molecule of the original substance remains." In actual fact, an important study in 2010 was published in the famed journal, Langmuir20(published by the American Chemistry Society), that verified that six different homeopathic medicine were found to have nanoparticles of the original medicinal agents even after they were diluted 1:100 two-hundred times and this fact was confirmed by three different types of spectroscopy. Further, the nanodoses that remained in water were, according to Archives in Internal Medicine,21comparable to the nanodoses to which many common hormones and cell-signaling agents are known to operate. Based on this research, anyone who says that there are "no active ingredients" or "no molecules" in homeopathic medicines are basing such assertions on disproven theories, not scientifically verified facts."
College age daughter diagnosed with Lyme, babesiosis, possible bartonella. Infected for a couple of years before being diagnosed and had advanced neurological symptoms. We used antibiotic and herbal protocols. She is done with treatment, and is now working through PTSD and adrenal fatigue.
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