Confirmation on Disulfiram with Lyme

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Charlie55
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Date Joined Nov 2017
Total Posts : 68
   Posted 5/15/2018 12:22 AM (GMT -6)   
/news.northeastern.edu/2018/05/10/ticks-creep-into-the-city-bringing-lyme-disease-with-them/

Article Dated May 10th 2018, this is most likely a confirmation that Disulfiram works on waking up dormant borrelia persister cells and killing them!

I tried the drug and I never herxed so much in my life, it has helped me from relapsing after being off antibiotics. Looks very promising.

Key points here were "And they found one that works in mice" and "without exterminating our gut bacteria."

From my understanding, they were going through a trial stage using Disulfiram on mice with lyme and Disulfiram doesn't kill of gut bacteria, so the compound he's most likely hinting to is Disulfiram.

I know for a fact it works after taking it, but the problem still at hand is biofilms, even though this drug wakes up dormant persister cells and kills them. You'll probably still have dormant cells left behind that hide in the biofilms, most likely this drug can't reach, so there in lies another problem.

I'm not sure what happened to that Curza CZ-1-99 drug that was supposed to kill of biofilms, been a few years and I haven't heard nothing. It was supposed to be in 2nd stage trials like 3 years ago kutv.com/news/local/utah-drug-research-company-curza-takes-aim-at-lyme-disease

My feeling is that LLMDs should be treating with Disulfiram since it's a lot safer than persister cell drugs like Dapsone. Still can be harsh on the liver taking "long" periods of time, but it looks very promising.

They found Disulfiram works even more effectively with a copper supplement, look up Disulfiram and tuberculosis, Disulfiram and cancer...

In reference to this link /www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3220494

There's a lot of lyme patients that still don't understand why they're relapsing so fast, research dormant persister cells with AIDs(Viruses), Lyme, MRSA, Cancer etc... This is why you relapse, it only takes a few cells that regular antbiotics can't kill for the infection to come raging back. Regardless of the monthly life cycle of borrelia, you still have the biofilms that come raging back, which the borrelia forms. Antibiotics like doxy and flagyl only kill of half a portion of biofilms when used. I suspect biofilms are the main reason people feel so fatigued. Interesting article on biofilms and fatigue. When I take stevia with antbiotics, I get a blast of energy but it wears off after a few weeks. Using Stevia with Disulfiram would probably be a good idea...

"Biofilms Causing Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome"
/www.sciencenews.zone/2017/11/biofilms-causing-fibromyalgia-and.html

We're getting closer, but still waiting... I hate how something like Disulfiram is an FDA approved drug, but it takes so darn long to approve in treatment, yet they give the green light on opioid drugs and vaccines, makes me sick! Capitalism!!!

"Goldman Sachs & Big Pharma Admit Cures Aren't Profitable"
https://youtu.be/q62J9bQwE_w
https://youtu.be/pFn0UqgRrx8

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 5/15/2018 12:41:47 AM (GMT-6)


mpost
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   Posted 5/15/2018 12:41 AM (GMT -6)   
Thank you for being vigilant Charlie55, i posted an update about this article last week but it's good to see someone else keeps an eye on this too! I am very excited about this drug.

i have a long term thread about Disulfiram here, and it includes the link you sent:
/www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3743568

how are you feeling now ? im thinking to try Disulfiram myself.

Charlie55
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Date Joined Nov 2017
Total Posts : 68
   Posted 5/15/2018 12:49 AM (GMT -6)   
mpost said...
Thank you for being vigilant Charlie55, i posted an update about this article last week but it's good to see someone else keeps an eye on this too! I am very excited about this drug.

i have a long term thread about Disulfiram here, and it includes the link you sent:
/www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3743568

how are you feeling now ? im thinking to try Disulfiram myself.


Great, I'll check the post out, good to update the forum anyways because posts easily get burried quickly and patients miss it or don't see it.

I still get fatigue after being off Disulfiram, but it's nowhere near as bad, I'm not bed bound after being off antibiotics.

Again, I had a lot of success with Dapsone and Pyrazinamide, both these drugs have helped me get past plateaus. But I still feel biofilms are a huge problem with lyme, I get a huge rush of energy being on these antibiotics and stevia, but being off, fatigue slowly comes back. Disulfiram helped me get past some of that bone crushing fatigue and get past another plateau.

I've seen herxing reactions in locations I've never seen before when being on Disulfiram, twitching, pins and needles in my spine. Herxing feelings in my brain, pins and needles. And in my thighs and calf muscles. I've had sciatica for a good 7-8 years now of treating lyme, only thing that helped with that was Dapsone and Disulfiram.

After being on Disulfiram, I'm tolerating dairy such as milk, which I could never tolerate. As well as other things!

It would be real interesting to try Disulfiram intravenously for better penetration, if that's possible!

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 5/15/2018 12:52:26 AM (GMT-6)


Charlie55
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Date Joined Nov 2017
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   Posted 5/15/2018 1:07 AM (GMT -6)   
With these new breakthroughs in treatments, it reminds me of the A-holes at the CDC and IDSA that said longterm antibiotics don't work on lyme. Technically they were right, certain antibiotics don't work on lyme, but other one's do, like Flagyl, which is very similar to Disulfiram.

It's been known for a long time that Flagyl worked on lyme in a "short period of time," both are alcoholic treatment drugs, Dr. H reported lyme patients getting out of wheel chairs using this drug years ago. But it only got them partially better, to 70% or so...

First thing I asked my Doctor in Saginaw Michigan when I went in for treatment, why hasn't the CDC/IDSA done testing on flagyl with lyme? He gave me this blank answer.

When I first took Flagyl, in my 2nd year or treatment, I almost felt cured within a few weeks time of taking the drug, thats how well it worked for me. It helped a lot, but I plateaued. I suspect due to only partially killing of biofilms and persister cells.

All this is starting to come together now... And I'm sorry, I'm not buying ignorance from the IDSA and CDC, they didn't know. Believe me, they're all looking at the same thing under a microscope, biofilms and persister cells. I suspect they knew all along how antibiotic resistant this bacteria was. And I suspect they were purposely using weak antibiotics in their trials and purposely suppressed the Embers study.

I'm still waiting on the lawsuit case down in Texas, I hope those ******s go to jail. Most likely a slap on the wrist, but believe me, when lyme patients start using Disulfiram, it's going to show that Lyme is a chronic infection once and for all, mark my words!!!

I hope this gives people hope!

mpost
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   Posted 5/15/2018 1:26 AM (GMT -6)   
Charlie55 ,

how long have u been taking Disulfiram and in what dosages ?

have u experienced neuro herxes with it or just throught the body?

Charlie55
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Date Joined Nov 2017
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   Posted 5/15/2018 1:47 AM (GMT -6)   
First treatment was for two weeks at 250mg, sometimes increasing it to 500mg which was the wrong thing to do. It's stated you should take 250mg a day, never go past 500mg. Again can be hard on the liver. Since then I've been on and off it for 3 months or so.

Fatigue and side effects built up with this drug and I had to stop, could be due to the herxing toxins building up as well, remember it has a long half-life, probably longer than any drug ever used for Lyme.

I'll have to try taking it a lower dosage.

As I mentioned, I got some really strange symptoms in my brain, such as twitching, pins and needles, weird soothing feelings, really hard to explain.

I always got this anytime I using a potent lyme antibiotic such as flagyl in early stages of treatment, in my arthritic spots, wrists/hands and ankles. But I never got these herxing feelings in the strange locations of my body with with Disulfiram, such as the brain, spine, calf muscles and thighs.

It's obvious to me, that even though my main symptoms with Lyme were arthritis and fatigue. I also had neuro lyme, which I believe everyone has even though some are effected more in the joints and some are effected more in the brain.

When I got on dapsone, I felt a cloud lift off of my head, I also got that feeling with Disulfiram.

And when it comes to herxing, I'm a male, so I don't get the violent herxing that females get like Mandy Hughes did in Under Our Skin. Men and women are just different when to comes to lyme, it's been known that it effects us differently for awhile, probably due to the way our systems are built with hormones and such. Some women are hit super hard, wheel chair bound. Men get it too, but just remember everyone's body is different, considering hormones and genetics, all plays a factor.

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 5/15/2018 2:13:23 AM (GMT-6)


mpost
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   Posted 5/15/2018 2:48 AM (GMT -6)   
Charlie55 said...
First treatment was for two weeks at 250mg, sometimes increasing it to 500mg which was the wrong thing to do. It's stated you should take 250mg a day, never go past 500mg. Again can be hard on the liver. Since then I've been on and off it for 3 months or so.


OMG u took that daily ? it's TOO MUCH. the drug has a huge half life , i do not think u need to take daily that dose, it can become toxic to liver in that amounts. this is why i asked u how much u took because i am not sure.

i'd say 2-3 days at 500m as a loading dose, then one every 2-3 days similarly with pulsing zithromax , mon weds fri.
again im not doctor but just looking at the half life, it's clear u dont need to take it daily.


Charlie55 said...

Fatigue and side effects built up with this drug and I had to stop, could be due to the herxing toxins building up as well, remember it has a long half-life, probably longer than any drug ever used for Lyme.



have u tested your liver counts ? i think that if u take this daily it can build up and affect your liver.


I'll have to try taking it a lower dosage.

Charlie55 said...

As I mentioned, I got some really strange symptoms in my brain, such as twitching, pins and needles, weird soothing feelings, really hard to explain.

I always got this anytime I using a potent lyme antibiotic such as flagyl in early stages of treatment, in my arthritic spots, wrists/hands and ankles. But I never got these herxing feelings in the strange locations of my body with with Disulfiram, such as the brain, spine, calf muscles and thighs.


yeah so it gets into the brain and probably has killed some of your persisters.

Charlie55 said...

It's obvious to me, that even though my main symptoms with Lyme were arthritis and fatigue. I also had neuro lyme, which I believe everyone has even though some are effected more in the joints and some are effected more in the brain.

When I got on dapsone, I felt a cloud lift off of my head, I also got that feeling with Disulfiram.


and how are u now ? u still have symptoms ?

Charlie55
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Date Joined Nov 2017
Total Posts : 68
   Posted 5/15/2018 3:17 AM (GMT -6)   
mpost said...

OMG u took that daily ? it's TOO MUCH. the drug has a huge half life , i do not think u need to take daily that dose, it can become toxic to liver in that amounts. this is why i asked u how much u took because i am not sure.



For like 3 days, then came off for 3 weeks. I'm well aware what the loading dose what and what's recommended daily.

mpost said...


i'd say 2-3 days at 500m as a loading dose, then one every 2-3 days similarly with pulsing zithromax , mon weds fri.
again im not doctor but just looking at the half life, it's clear u dont need to take it daily.

have u tested your liver counts ? i think that if u take this daily it can build up and affect your liver.



I was talking 250mg that's what recommended for alcoholics. Dude, what I take is minuscule compared to what Dr. H's patients take with Dapsone, up to 2 different antibiotics plus Dapsone. 250mg day is pretty safe, considering I only do it for 1 or 2 weeks, then off for like 2-3 weeks. People who take this drug end up having serious damage because they take it for long periods of time, up to a year, why? Because their alcoholics. Go pop a Xanax or something!

I used to, no longer have the money to do so or pay outrageous fees for a Lyme Doctor. As with a lot of lyme patients in this country, I treat myself.

Scary? Sure it is, it's downright pitiful I have to treat myself and get my drugs from an alternative source? Considering the multiple studies showing that lyme is chronic through persister cells. Tell this to the corrupt politicians and big pharma, unsympathetic capitalistic corrupt doctors like Shapiro and Wormser.

As I say to most people I inform, it's a wakeup call to the healthcare and economic system you live in!

A lot of Lyme patients have anxiety attacks constantly, nervous breakdowns after they understand the healthcare system they live under and the walls start caving in after contracting this disease. I knew what state this country was in before I got lyme, so guess what, luckily I never trusted the doctors and got treatment from osteopath outside the system that got me started on antibiotics.

The more you get in-tune with reality, more you won't have a melt down. I've seen the people on this forum and others, completely dismiss things like project paper clip and our country's military history behind this disease. One of the main LLMDs from Michigan, from Keego harbor was in Under the Eightball(Dr. Markowitz), the documentary unveiling borrelia as biowarfare.

Look people are probably dieing and committing suicide from Lyme Disease on a daily basis, maybe hourly basis, that's if they even known that's what they have. What I'm doing is a better alternative wouldn't you say?

There's like 3 major LLMDs in Michigan, I've been through all of them. They'll get you about 70% and pull you off of antibiotics, then drop you. They don't want the responsibility in longterm organ damage or antibiotic resistant bugs like C-Diff. Most do not treat biofilms, coinfections, nor do they understand what antbiotics work for persister cells or want to take the risk of treating with these new drugs. Most likely you'll relapse violently and well, guess what on to the next LLMD or going out of state or just taking weak herbs that most likely won't hold the infection back. Been there done that, tried them all!!! Garbage!

As my Father who is 71 now, thinks he has beginning stages of cancer, he's probably going to give Disulfiram a try. Guess what, he doesn't want to do chemo because he knows it's a death sentence... It's been know for a long time in this country that there's many alternative treatments for cancer, yet they still use the same crap that basically is like dropping a bomb on your immune system. Why is that?

I'd don't know, maybe Goldman Sachs and Big Pharma treating for profit, not cures.

"Goldman Sachs & Big Pharma Admit Cures Aren't Profitable"
https://youtu.be/q62J9bQwE_w
https://youtu.be/pFn0UqgRrx8

I love Dr. H, but his prices are outrageous what he charges, no one in middle or lower class can afford that, considering everyone pays check to pay check. He's done incredible work, but he to is out of touch with reality... I hate to say it!

And even though I congratulate him with his recent success with some of these new persister cell drugs and patients not relapsing, I guarantee his numbers are fudged from his practice as well, with the amount of patients reaching remission. If you don't treat with a persister cell drug, you're going to relapse and relapse and relapse. Not a lot of people can tolerate Dapsone. Just the way it is, way it is with MRSA and tuberculosis. Do people with those disease reach remission with herbs? And traditional antibiotics?

mpost said...


yeah so it gets into the brain and probably has killed some of your persisters.

and how are u now ? u still have symptoms ?


How am I know, as I stated above, I'm quite fine when I'm off antibiotics, little fatigue still. But I'm a lot better than most considering I can bench press over 300 pounds and run up to 5 miles in a day.

Fatigue is basically my last symptom and from my understanding studying this disease, due to biofilms and remaining persister cells.

Even if I run miles a day, lift weights etc... I'll have ton of energy for 2-3 weeks, but fatigue will eventually catch up with me.

I've been off of antibiotics for 7 months few years back treating with CBD and rick simpson oil, infection still came back. There's so many that loosely use the remission and cured term... If you've been off all treatment for 2 years and doing fine, yeah then you could say your in remission...

I'm sure some of you have heard me saying this all before, but it's a reminder for the new patients that haven't heard it... As I still see the same stuff being said on the forums on a daily basis.

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 5/15/2018 4:33:11 AM (GMT-6)


k07
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   Posted 5/15/2018 5:17 AM (GMT -6)   
How about trying biocidin for biofilm? The liposomal version is good. It hits viruses too just in case your leftover fatigue is something else like ebv.

mpost
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   Posted 5/15/2018 6:12 AM (GMT -6)   
the problem is biocidin or other compounds, have not passed in vivo tests like disulfiram seems to have passed in mice.

previously two independent teams have reported disulfiram working in vitro on borrelia persisters with very high efficiency, killing >95% of them.

in vivo test on mice now prove they work in a real animal not just in test tube.

this is MILES away from anything we have now on lyme persisters in terms of science.

i hope they publish the results soon.

elvin
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   Posted 5/15/2018 8:14 AM (GMT -6)   
does anyone know if disulfiram works for co infections?

mpost
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   Posted 5/15/2018 8:20 AM (GMT -6)   
elvin said...
does anyone know if disulfiram works for co infections?


it probably DOES NOT WORK, because disulfiram has very narrow spectrum , it is not an antibiotic. it will not kill your gut bacteria and 99% of bacteria in you are not affected by disulfiram. this is why it is such a game changer, u can take it and it will nail only lyme and leave your gut alone. zero chances u get GI issues, zero chances to get cdiff, no need to take probiotics. no antibiotic resistance issues.

it may be u do not need any other treatment than disulfiram even if u have 10 coinfections. there is a reason why they are called coinfections, they live in the shadow of the lyme bacteria immune depression. most of them alone do not stand a chance. a healthy immune system will not be frightened by babesia , bartonella or EBV.

So maybe all u need is cure borrelia, and everything else will slowly come back to normal.
however this is something we cannot achieve now with current meds.

Garion
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   Posted 5/15/2018 10:52 AM (GMT -6)   
I heard about a woman who went to st Georges and believe she is "cured" from lyme. Obviously St Georges do not treat the co-infections, so i asked her about her co-infection symptoms. She said that within a year they went away which would support your theory Mpost.

mpost
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   Posted 5/15/2018 11:55 AM (GMT -6)   
Charlie55 have u by any chance tested your CD57 before and after disulfiram ? i'd die to know the answer. If this thing kills persisters so effectively, your CD57 should start to improve.

Charlie55
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Date Joined Nov 2017
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   Posted 5/15/2018 1:03 PM (GMT -6)   
mpost said...
Charlie55 have u by any chance tested your CD57 before and after disulfiram ? i'd die to know the answer. If this thing kills persisters so effectively, your CD57 should start to improve.


I really don't think it would be beneficial to measure my T-cells, I've been treating for 7 years now mpost... I'm at 90%, again I can run miles, pretty much function normally now, just some fatigue left over...

I did it in the beginning stages of treatment.

mpost said...
elvin said...
does anyone know if disulfiram works for co infections?


it probably DOES NOT WORK, because disulfiram has very narrow spectrum , it is not an antibiotic. it will not kill your gut bacteria and 99% of bacteria in you are not affected by disulfiram. this is why it is such a game changer, u can take it and it will nail only lyme and leave your gut alone. zero chances u get GI issues, zero chances to get cdiff, no need to take probiotics. no antibiotic resistance issues.



I wouldn't say it can't kill coinfections just because it's a narrow spectrum drug. This drug has anti-parasitic properties, anti-viral properties, and anti-cancer properties.

It may target babesia and maybe other parasites. I wouldn't doubt that it will works on bartonella, considering it works on tuberculosis. I still think it's narrow spectrum, but it may still target "some" coinfections.

https://www.lktlabs.com/product/disulfiram/
"Disulfiram also exhibits anticancer and anti-parasitic activities."

And again, I'd be more worried about treating the biofilm part, which LLMDs and patients are still underestimating.

I honestly believe that coinfections are not the "main" reason why so many patients are staying chronic, sure for some... But not the main reason for most, just my opinion.

mpost said...


previously two independent teams have reported disulfiram working in vitro on borrelia persisters with very high efficiency, killing >95% of them.

in vivo test on mice now prove they work in a real animal not just in test tube.

this is MILES away from anything we have now on lyme persisters in terms of science.

i hope they publish the results soon.


That is very exciting to hear, I may lower dosage and split my disulfiram in half, maybe even take it every other day.

What's sad is, no telling how long it will take for LLMDs to start treating with it!

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 5/15/2018 1:22:33 PM (GMT-6)


ToddPaul
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   Posted 5/15/2018 1:31 PM (GMT -6)   
How about taking it with a systemic enzyme like serrapeptase? They are known to break up biofilm though don't know if there are any studies to back it up.

k07
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   Posted 5/15/2018 2:23 PM (GMT -6)   
I’ll be interested to know how long we’d need to take disulfarim. What do you think Charlie? I know you mentioned 3 months so far.

mpost
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   Posted 5/15/2018 9:57 PM (GMT -6)   
id still want to see that mouse study published before i try it.

Charlie55
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   Posted 5/16/2018 4:22 AM (GMT -6)   
k07 said...
I’ll be interested to know how long we’d need to take disulfarim. What do you think Charlie? I know you mentioned 3 months so far.


I've been going on and off it for 3 months, as well as following up with a persister cell killer like pyramazide. So it's not like I've been on it long, considering I take long breaks, 2-3 weeks sometimes, after being on it for a week or two. I'm very cautious doing liver kidney detoxes as well as taking supporting supplements when I'm on.

My thought process was breaking up the biofilms with stevia tincture I use and waking up persister cells with disulfarim, then taking a few days off, then following up with pyramazide to kill the persister cells. I felt incredible after doing this, but fatigue still comes back after a month. But overall, I feel I've pasted a plateau because I'm not relapsing after being off antibiots.

Now I'm thinking I'll just take stevia and disulfarim, because I seem to just herx a lot just using disulfarim. Maybe add copper in the mix!

And as mpost said, maybe just taking it at a low dosage, taking it every other day, increasing the stevia, might be more beneficial. Then again, this may prevent it from penetrating the tissue effectively, there's a reason why a higher dosage must be taken. I looked at the cancer studies with this drug, they were taking higher dosages, but then again that's cancer.

Honestly, who knows how long you'll need to take it since everyone's body is different and everyone's a different stage of treatment.

2-3 years ago, I thought I was basically done with this disease, I took 7 months of all antbiotics, functioned pretty normally just taking rick simpson oil. Infection came back!!!

So unless you kill off a good portion of persister cells, as well as the biofilms, it'll keep coming back no matter what. That's what you're up against and that's why something like cure or the remissions terms shouldn't be thrown around lightly. I laugh at people Yolanda Hadid when she gets treatment with IVs then few days later says she's cured. Unless you've been off all antbiotics for a good 2 years and completely symptom free, which I feel a lot of people lie about, to make them feel better, especially the herbal takers, you're basically full of it.

Best I've felt in my life is after taking these new drugs, people like Dr. H and John Hokins, Dr. Lewis, Dr. Sapi are the one's who've done the ground break working, regardless of what bs is being said on the forums and elsewhere.

mpost said...
id still want to see that mouse study published before i try it.


What scares the crap out of me mpost, the longer you have this infection in your body and exposure to borrelia in your brain, I suspect the more chance you have of contracting a deadlier autoimmune disease like Michael J Fox has, aka Parkinsons. Without a doubt his lyme caused his Parkinsons!

Or what other permanent diseases borrelia could possibly cause longterm, nerve damage, diabetes, organ damage, blindness, other autoimmune diseases etc... The longer you have this infection in your body, the more danger it can be. Yet you hear these naturopaths like Dr. Klinghardt saying he wants his patients living in harmony with this disease, then his patients repeat it on the forums, lol, like it's set it stone. It's amazing what your read on the forums after the years of dealing with this disease. I'll be glad when a quality treatment can come out and people like him can disappear forever with their nonsense and outrageous prices, taking advantage of people.

If you have a borrelia infection in your body, chances are you have it in your brain, regardless of where your symptoms are. I just had arthritis in my joints and fatigue for the most part, little did I know I had borrelia in my brain.

You guys can keep waiting, some can keep hoping that treating themselves that these over the counter herbals from Whole Foods and Better Health is going to help them, I'm a realist and have woken up in the healthcare system we live in. None of those herbs get past the brain barrier, nor do the penetrate tissue well, very little of them probably actually kill persister cells. This is why herbs and elements and plants are compounded in a lab to make them more potent. It amazes me people forget about all this.

And longer you're on these traditional antbiotics like doxycycline mpost, more chances you have of cdiff or some other type of bacteria to become resistant in your body. Most can't come off these antbiotics for more than a few weeks, because they're infection comes ravaging back. So if you can't take long breaks off the traditional antibiotics, how do you keep your liver and kidneys health mpost? Regardless of what your bloodwork says... There's professional football players that keep their liver enzymes down and take pain pills for years, but still end up killing their kidneys and liver years later. Blood work isn't a for sure thing.

Even if the mouse studies get published mpost, that's if they ever are made public, considering whoever owns this drug has gold mine in front of them, they may not want them published!!! It could take 2-3 years or longer for lyme literate physicians to start using the drug. I've been through these doctors, many are so set in their ways and will only treat with the antibiotics they want to treat you with.

I'm sure Dr. H will start treating with the drug soon, but most can't afford his prices or drive to New York.

This Curza Drug was in second stage trials 3 years ago, where's it now? It's already been shown to work... I don't have patience for this crap, I plan to live my life, like I'm doing and keep working. If I had abided by the rules and laws in this country, even followed what some of the LLMDs in Michigan said to do, I'd still be up craps creek and living off the street.

But hey, lets give the green light on a new lyme vaccine, who gives a crap about the side effects. lol And keep pumping people full of opioids, those pain drugs are completely safe...

Look at the recent published studies on persister cells with Lyme, little has changed with treatment from the CDC or ILADs, they got a lyme group together, that's great and all. But I'm waiting for change with the treatment policy from both the CDC and ILADs on what drugs to treat for persister cells....

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 5/16/2018 4:34:20 AM (GMT-6)


mpost
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Date Joined Feb 2015
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   Posted 5/16/2018 4:33 AM (GMT -6)   
Charlie55 said...

What scares the crap out of me mpost, the longer you have this infection in your body and exposure to borrelia in your brain, I suspect the more chance you have of contracting a deadlier autoimmune disease like Michael J Fox has, aka Parkinsons. Without a doubt his lyme caused his Parkinsons!


yeah or ALS sad

Charlie55 said...

Unless you've been off all antbiotics for a good 2 years and completely symptom free, which I feel a lot of people lie about, to make them feel better, especially the herbal takers, you're basically full of it.


yeah i think so too, i mean looking at how invulnerable this bacteria is to the antibiotics we take now, i simply do not understand how some people recover. i think they can be split into few categories
- some very lucky ones that have good immune system plus antibiotics, somehow manage to overcome the disease, but this is an accident rather than norm
- some that had enough of "sick me" and their mind wants them to think they are healthy so they kinda lie to themselves that they are symptom free
- some that had simply got used to some minimal symptoms and tolerate it and it has become "second nature" to them, so they no longer can distinguish between being 100% or being 90%...

Charlie55
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2017
Total Posts : 68
   Posted 5/16/2018 4:50 AM (GMT -6)   
mpost said...


yeah i think so too, i mean looking at how invulnerable this bacteria is to the antibiotics we take now, i simply do not understand how some people recover. i think they can be split into few categories
- some very lucky ones that have good immune system plus antibiotics, somehow manage to overcome the disease, but this is an accident rather than norm
- some that had enough of "sick me" and their mind wants them to think they are healthy so they kinda lie to themselves that they are symptom free
- some that had simply got used to some minimal symptoms and tolerate it and it has become "second nature" to them, so they no longer can distinguish between being 100% or being 90%...


Yes I think so on everything you said.

Believe me, anyone who looks at me know, considering they might see me running down the street. Playing hockey, lifting weights at the gym, might think I'm perfectly healthy. Never would they guess I still have a deadly infection in my body. And I'm sure the same thing can be said for people with the AIDs virus, like Charlie Sheen and Magic Johnson, who probably take steroids on a daily basis to keep their systems healthy.

If you're good at it, you can get a good antibiotic and vitamin maintenance regimen going, and seem like there's nothing wrong with you. Go back to work, play sports etc... Try and live your life normally, but I think it fatigue and other symptoms do catch up with you still.

I guarantee Yolanda Hughes and her daughter still get monthly treatment intravenous antibiotics, but who know knows, with the endless supply of money, they could of reached remission by now. Money does help, lol, regardless of what people say on the forums to make themselves feel better.

From doing my own homework, you have a better chance of reaching remission like Mandy Hughes did from Under Our Skin, if you hit the infection hard with long term intravenous antibiotics or the right 3-4 oral antibiotic combination right off the bat. Finding the right LLMD to treat you with a protocol like that is rare and expensive. The more you throw weaker oral antibiotics like single doses of amoxicillin and doxycycline, harder this bacteria becomes to kill. Probably because it goes deeper and deeper into the tissue, more resistant persister cells and biofilms formed too. It's been known for a long time that if you use weak doses of antbiotics, harder the infection becomes to kill. This is why Dr. Burrascano explicitly stated, use IV antibiotics if your lyme infection has gone chronic, then follow up with orals... Not the other way around.

But as we're starting to see, IV antibiotics aren't as useful as they once were. The bacteria has evolved... Just as all the bacteria around has, in hospitals, at work, everywhere bacteria is becoming more resistant. For the most part, we'll eventually have to dump antibiotics all together, that's a fact, but for now, that's all we have...

It's funny, after researching disulfiram, it's been know decades ago it could of been a good drug candidate for cancer, probably even bacteria too. As you stated, it's not an antbiotic and doesn't harm the gut bacteria, but here we are 2018 acting like this is an incredible breakthrough, lol...

Mpost have you seen the documentary prescription thugs? I found entertaining what the big pharma rep said about what these pharmaceutical companies are in the business for, "disease management and symptoms maintenance."

Be sure to watch this video /youtu.be/kEOayJiXlL4?t=37m49s

Good ol' Capitalism, I'm sure once a cure comes out capitalists will be saying capitalisms is what cured your lyme disease. All praise Ayn Rand!

I know tons of people in this country that think this country was founded on capitalism, not a republic... lol Which a republic is basically the closes thing to is a democracy. It amazes me how much propaganda has corrupted peoples minds in this country, dark times we're living in now, sure hope human civilization has another 100 years on this planet.

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 5/16/2018 5:38:39 AM (GMT-6)


sebreg
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 807
   Posted 5/16/2018 8:03 AM (GMT -6)   
That's interesting about disulfiram. I'm going to keep researching that.

I've also been through the dapsone and PZA protocols. Def helped, but didn't get me to remission. I'm much better than where I used to be, so I'm grateful for that. But I'm still trying to inch my way back to a more high-functioning baseline.

I'm actually giving essential oils a shot, trying them out in combo form. They def make me herx exactly like effective abx, so I take that as I good sign. I just wonder about tissue penetration with them. A couple researchers I talked to had positive things to say about their potential, but I wish there was earnest research in trying to develop even more targeted delivery mechanisms of these compounds inside the body. Dr Zhang says some of those compounds have quite amazing ability to penetrate biofilms.

I totally relate with some of the things you are saying. I've always been a gym rat. I've finally gotten back to working out (when I was bedridden any exertion would cause a massive flare in symptoms for days on end). I've been getting back to some of my favorite compound lifts, it's a very empowering feeling to get to do this after all these years. But people see me and they think I'm the picture of health, but they have no idea. Most of the stuff I've dealt with was debilitating neurological symptoms, and I still have some of that but at a lesser intensity. I'm grateful that I haven't physically decayed, but it creates a cognitive dissonance in people when I tell them about my health issues.

In regards to pharma. I think it was Pfizer in the 80s who set about in earnest to develop a strategy focused on creating long-term non-curative drugs for chronic illness. The patients for life model. I'm not 100% on that, but I think I read that somewhere. And it's amazing they haven't done more trials looking at various antimicrobials on a lot of the neuro-degenerative diseases. The few they did were promising. But often the foundations for those diseases absolutely dogmatically don't want to hear about chronic stealth infections possibly playing a role. Same goes for the other players involved. How many billions have they wasted chasing down false leads and they won't look into this?

The way this will be fixed is that millions more will have to keep getting sick from these infections, and enough powerful people will get sick (billionaires, politicians, etc) that the levers of power will finally get the machine grinding on this. I actually think it's already happening. It's a slow build-up, but the IDSA/CDC dam is cracking, the epidemic is reaching such proportions that it's becoming more and more difficult for them to spin their way out of it. Not to mention the amount of research that is accumulating that corroborates our experiences and the nature of these pathogens.

Ha, I saw your little aside on Ayn Rand. I've read two of her books. Not only is she a poor writer, she's a third-tier thinker with 1st-tier influence imo. An anti-humanist of the highest nature with the most fundamental misunderstanding of humans and human dynamics. Ok ok I won't deviate on that subject anymore, it gets me excited haha!

Post Edited (sebreg) : 5/16/2018 8:09:44 AM (GMT-6)


Charlie55
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2017
Total Posts : 68
   Posted 5/16/2018 8:26 PM (GMT -6)   
sebreg said...


Ha, I saw your little aside on Ayn Rand. I've read two of her books. Not only is she a poor writer, she's a third-tier thinker with 1st-tier influence imo. An anti-humanist of the highest nature with the most fundamental misunderstanding of humans and human dynamics. Ok ok I won't deviate on that subject anymore, it gets me excited haha!


Ethics and empathy don't matter to these politicians and businessmen who worship her, these people think she's the next best thing since slice bread. Even though the American economy failed in 2008, they still think capitalism is working and will do anything to keep this ponzi scheme going.

I'm not sure what it'll take to convince these people an unregulated free market will destroy the world. I come from a middle/upper class city in the United States, I've studied these rich people's minds for decades. They still think a freer market is going to solve all our problems! I mean don't get me wrong, I think having a good balance between capitalism and democracy is probable, but when one outweighs the other, and you have unregulated corporate greed in the food and healthcare system, you're going to have some serious problems.

Gwen Olsen is a good example of a capitalist who thought the system work, being a big pharma rep, that's until her niece died. youtu.be/kEOayJiXlL4?t=37m49s

sebreg said...


The way this will be fixed is that millions more will have to keep getting sick from these infections, and enough powerful people will get sick (billionaires, politicians, etc) that the levers of power will finally get the machine grinding on this.


This is what it takes for these people to realize the current system isn't working, as you said in your post up above, it'll take politicians, celebrities and businessmen's sons and daughters to die from lyme, in order for a cure to reach the market. And honestly, that's what it's taken... John Caudwell is a good example www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3357784/Can-billionaire-John-Caudwell-s-bombshell-theory-right-Phone-tycoon-reveals-ELEVEN-family-crippling-Lyme-disease-believes-s-passed-people-NOT-ticks.html

Same thing is going on with opioid epidemic!

Caudwell went on the news, thinking someone like me should have any sympathy for him and his family and he doesn't understand why we're in the predicament we're in. Deep down, he knows why.

The system he and his friends created, likes living under, is the reason why big pharma is in the business for disease management and symptoms maintenance, not cures. And why is children suffer! "You reap what you sow!!!"

It's not that hard to break it down for people, but I still see the majority of the public clueless to what's going on. Honestly, you can have the perfect system(whether it's democracy or whatever..), it only takes man to corrupt that perfect system. But believe me with capitalism, we'll need 3 or 4 more earth planets to keep going on in a system like this. A system that doesn't believe excessive carbon is acidifying our oceans and killing off the plants and phytoplankton that make up 50-80% of the oxygen we breath.

Humans with their pollution can not, will not, and never be able to effect this large planet's cycle on a whole scale, that's impossible right? lol Climate Change is completely BS right, half the percentage of the people I know in the states believe this because of corporate propaganda.

We'll need an entire reset of each major government in the US, England, Russia, and Australia for change to happen, I don't see that happening any time soon because these corporations have such a stronghold through propaganda.

And by the way, the same corporate greed I see in these businessmen's eyes like Trump, is the same thing I see in Doctors like Shapiro and Wormser. All you should be scared, very scared, we all need to do something about this before it's too late... But hey, look at who they voted into power to save the system that isn't working, a pure capitalist, lol, makes sense right! Hahahaha

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 5/16/2018 8:37:16 PM (GMT-6)


Charlie55
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2017
Total Posts : 68
   Posted 5/16/2018 9:42 PM (GMT -6)   
So just a thought here, kind of a coincidence....

I have really bad allergies and my eyes were on fire today from the pollen, I took a Claritin today, aka Loratadine, the same stuff that was recently reported to kill lyme bacteria. Well I herxed pretty bad after taking that today with Disulfiram... These two together may be a good alternative for the lyme patients that can't tolerate antibiotics... I never herxed on Claritin before, go figure....?

Maybe even taking Disulfiram+Claritin+Stevia+Copper together, maybe a good protocol. Especially since none of these harm your gut flora from my understanding...

Believe me, even though I support antibiotics over everything else, for now... I'm sick of being on them too! I've tried endless amounts of herbs, vitamins, supplements... Disulfiram is probably the best non-antibiotic drug that has helped me herx the most, that and Stevia! I'm blown away how much Stevia has helped my fatigue, give me energy and what I suppose kills the biofilms.

To the struggle, cheers! yeah turn smilewinkgrin

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 5/17/2018 1:27:39 AM (GMT-6)


mpost
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1511
   Posted 5/16/2018 11:21 PM (GMT -6)   
Charlie55 said...
So just a thought there, kind of a coincidence....

I have really bad allergies and my eyes were on fire today from the pollen, I took a Claritin today, aka Loratadine, the same stuff that was recently reported to kill lyme bacteria. Well I herxed pretty bad after taking that today with Disulfiram... These two together may be a good alternative for the lyme patients that can't tolerate antibiotics... I never herxed on Claritin before, go figure....?



u herxed from disulfiram. it has a very low MIC, low enough to kill borrelia throughout your body. Disulfiram is a FDA approved drug, it gets absobred well, gets in most fluids and has a very long half life.

Claritin has a very hi MIC. In order for claritin to kill borrelia, you need to take 500 times the dose that is recommended for allergies. In that amount, Claritin is deadly, it will damage your heart muscle and then you will die.

Stevia is good at killing borrelia but it is not systemic. Actually nobody knows if it gets absorbed in the blood stream, what is its half life, if it crosses the BBB , etc.. I never herxed on stevia and i used one of the brands that worked on Sapi's tests, alcohol tincture, and in really large amounts 70+ drops a day. No herx.

So again, disulfiram is what makes u herx. Stevia may be able to break biofilms in your gut, i give it credit to that. Not a chance Claritin will have any effect on borrelia in that dosage you take nor in any dosage that is not deadly to humans.
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