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OriolCarol
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 563
   Posted 5/20/2018 7:18 AM (GMT -6)   
Red dots are only babs and bart, or could it be lyme as well?

My doctor told me, that there is a myth about it,because when babesia cause red dots it's because you have thrombocitopenic purpura and it should appear in a normal blood test...

He said me that lyme can infect any cell and it should be my true enemy... but i don't know if he's right. I can't treat all infections together, and he doesn't want because he says i don't have babesia...

OriolCarol
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 563
   Posted 5/20/2018 7:25 AM (GMT -6)   
When i say him, i have leucopenia. It can be a symptom of babesia... he says and lyme can cause leucopenia and infect the medulla... and when i say maybe this rash is bart, he say lyme is know to cause a lot of mysterious rashes in skin....

Cberg
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2017
Total Posts : 50
   Posted 5/20/2018 9:37 AM (GMT -6)   
Wait someone else has these !! I have little raised dogs all over, my co infection test was negative

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32680
   Posted 5/20/2018 9:40 AM (GMT -6)   
There is a lot of symptom overlap.

Did you have low WBC since starting treatment?

I also have that, but when I go off abx the wbc count comes back up.

When you’re treating Bart with Rifabutin and minocycline - you are also treating Lyme.

But you will need an antimalarial/antiparastic to treat babesia
If it showed up in a blood test like that - then diagnosing Babesia would be easier than it is.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Post Edited (Girlie) : 5/20/2018 9:43:32 AM (GMT-6)


1000Daisies
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2016
Total Posts : 2438
   Posted 5/20/2018 12:52 PM (GMT -6)   
I can't answer your question for sure, but I wanted to mention two of my kids had little red drops after starting treatment for Babesia:
Kid#1: saw them few days after starting mepron
Kid#2: saw them few days after starting herbals for Babesia


I'm a bit concerned about your doctor's reluctance to treat coinfections? For us, we are trying to treat for the 3 Bs (borrelia, babesia, and bartonella). Many of the speakers on things like the Chronic Lyme Disease summits frequently talk about treating all of these. I recall one (doctor) speaker said he treated Babesia and bartonella first, and that usually (but not always) covered the lyme related issues too.


Personally, I spent too much time going down the lyme pathway and not focusing sooner on bartonella and babesia (learned my lesson on that one).
Kid#1: Extremely sick for several years, very difficult to treat, but doing great now!
Kid#2: Still sick now despite being treated for years but doing better (not well yet).
Kid#3: Generally good but relapsing off/on.
Me: Adv Labs positive 2016 (suspected I passed to my kids)-not as sick as others, mostly battling fatigue and yeast issues (heart/kidney issues resolved)
Treating with herbals now.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32680
   Posted 5/20/2018 12:54 PM (GMT -6)   
1000Daisies said...
I can't answer your question for sure, but I wanted to mention two of my kids had little red drops after starting treatment for Babesia:
Kid#1: saw them few days after starting mepron
Kid#2: saw them few days after starting herbals for Babesia


I'm a bit concerned about your doctor's reluctance to treat coinfections? For us, we are trying to treat for the 3 Bs (borrelia, babesia, and bartonella). Many of the speakers on things like the Chronic Lyme Disease summits frequently talk about treating all of these. I recall one (doctor) speaker said he treated Babesia and bartonella first, and that usually (but not always) covered the lyme related issues too.


Personally, I spent too much time going down the lyme pathway and not focusing sooner on bartonella and babesia (learned my lesson on that one).


He is (or was - maybe protocol is changed) treating OriolCarol for bartonella. (and that does cover lyme treatment at the same time)

But hopefully, he will also consider Babesia as a possibility.

Oriol - you still haven't been treating very long - is it two months now?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Post Edited (Girlie) : 5/20/2018 12:57:03 PM (GMT-6)


1000Daisies
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2016
Total Posts : 2438
   Posted 5/20/2018 12:59 PM (GMT -6)   
I was a little confused on this:

" I can't treat all infections together, and he doesn't want because he says i don't have babesia…"


So, you are right - I don't have the complete backstory. But I'm concerned about the comment about "can't treat all infections together". Many people treat for the 3 Bs together???
Is the doctor reluctant because s/he doesn't believe patient has Babesia? Is that just based on a negative lab test?
Kid#1: Extremely sick for several years, very difficult to treat, but doing great now!
Kid#2: Still sick now despite being treated for years but doing better (not well yet).
Kid#3: Generally good but relapsing off/on.
Me: Adv Labs positive 2016 (suspected I passed to my kids)-not as sick as others, mostly battling fatigue and yeast issues (heart/kidney issues resolved)
Treating with herbals now.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32680
   Posted 5/20/2018 1:26 PM (GMT -6)   
1000Daisies said...
I was a little confused on this:

" I can't treat all infections together, and he doesn't want because he says i don't have babesia…"


So, you are right - I don't have the complete backstory. But I'm concerned about the comment about "can't treat all infections together". Many people treat for the 3 Bs together???
Is the doctor reluctant because s/he doesn't believe patient has Babesia? Is that just based on a negative lab test?


It is a bit confusing.

I don't know if she realizes that Rifampin plus mino treats both lyme and bartonella.
If her "LLMD" says she only has lyme, then she is still treating bart.

Babesia is another story...pharmaceutically - it's often treated separately because the two better meds: Mepron and Malarone don't go well with Rifabutin/Rifampin.
So if you're not willing to take the fluoroquinolones for bart (which many of us won't...including me) then you generally do the Rifabutin/Rifampin after (or before ) babesia treatment.

Some abx do have some action against bart i.e. Bactrim - that can be taken with babs meds...but often it isn't enough.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

OriolCarol
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 563
   Posted 5/20/2018 1:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Yes, but he is focus in lyme... sad he uses rifampin to treat lyme...

I'm crying now because i have twitching in my chest and i think i'm going to have a respiratory faillure... because twitching happens when i move my muscles.... i need help sad

Cberg
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2017
Total Posts : 50
   Posted 5/20/2018 2:24 PM (GMT -6)   
Carol deep breaths, the twitching with lyme is terrible but the calmer you become less stress on the body, I pray for it to stop

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32680
   Posted 5/20/2018 2:46 PM (GMT -6)   
OriolCarol said...
Yes, but he is focus in lyme... sad he uses rifampin to treat lyme...

I'm crying now because i have twitching in my chest and i think i'm going to have a respiratory faillure... because twitching happens when i move my muscles.... i need help sad



Well, it doesn't really matter what he thinks it's treating...as long as you're getting the bart treatment.

How long have you been twitching in that area?

Do warm epsom salts bath help? What about taking something for the CNS? Do you have Pinella or Jernigan's Neuro Antitox II?
One of those is worth a try.

And just focus on resting your body....
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

LJohn23
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 67
   Posted 5/20/2018 3:20 PM (GMT -6)   
My sister and I both have these red dots. They are literally the size of the pin of a needle and are straight red. I have bartonella and I'm positive my sister does too but hers isn't as active.

Cberg
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2017
Total Posts : 50
   Posted 5/20/2018 4:15 PM (GMT -6)   
This is so interesting , I have these red dots , my primary care says they are cherry agnomas, yet they are not raised and they are allegedly for older people yet I'm very young.

Aerose91
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 391
   Posted 5/20/2018 8:52 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie said...
There is a lot of symptom overlap.

Did you have low WBC since starting treatment?

I also have that, but when I go off abx the wbc count comes back up.

When you’re treating Bart with Rifabutin and minocycline - you are also treating Lyme.

But you will need an antimalarial/antiparastic to treat babesia
If it showed up in a blood test like that - then diagnosing Babesia would be easier than it is.


Does rifampin/rifabutin have any effect on lyme or is that just the minocycline

Btw i have the red dots, too. Bartonella here

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32680
   Posted 5/20/2018 9:11 PM (GMT -6)   
I've seen a few times now that Rifampin may also treat Lyme...someone mentioned persister cells.

But I don't really know .


Edit: I had written: "....that Bart may also treat lyme...." lol
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Post Edited (Girlie) : 5/21/2018 2:10:12 PM (GMT-6)


1000Daisies
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2016
Total Posts : 2438
   Posted 5/20/2018 9:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Two of my kids who got the red dots got them only after starting treatment for Babesia. I don't recall seeing or knowing if they had them other times. But I definitely recall they got them after initial treatment, and they went away. Theirs did not persist.
Kid#1: Extremely sick for several years, very difficult to treat, but doing great now!
Kid#2: Still sick now despite being treated for years but doing better (not well yet).
Kid#3: Generally good but relapsing off/on.
Me: Adv Labs positive 2016 (suspected I passed to my kids)-not as sick as others, mostly battling fatigue and yeast issues (heart/kidney issues resolved)
Treating with herbals now.

OriolCarol
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 563
   Posted 5/21/2018 1:09 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie, the cramps and muscle twitching in my chest appeared this week...i don't know if it's due to die off or something else... what do you think?

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32680
   Posted 5/21/2018 2:11 PM (GMT -6)   
It is most likely die-off - i.e. toxins.


Detox if you're not already....if you already are, then continue.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

sierraDon
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2016
Total Posts : 184
   Posted 5/21/2018 5:06 PM (GMT -6)   
I have dots too, some are reddish while others are brown. i have the 3 B's. I was wondering if these dots ever go away (upon successful treatment)

there isn't much study info on rifampin or rifabutin in a persister combo. mpost mentioned one before, but i have yet to see anything specific about rifabutin in particular related to persisters.

i am now 2 months into RIfabutin, Minocycline, Zithro...actually feeling pretty good. the majority of symptoms have improved, some gone and others reduced.

Post Edited (sierraDon) : 5/22/2018 6:39:08 AM (GMT-6)

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