Oral treponema can cause lyme symptoms?

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OriolCarol
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   Posted 5/22/2018 8:17 AM (GMT -6)   
It's well know that it's a spirochete, but can it be systemic and cause the same symptoms of lyme?

ChickenArise
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   Posted 5/22/2018 2:41 PM (GMT -6)   
I would guess yes and it can become systemic according to a dentist whos name I cant remember who treats this with laser debridement. Norquist I think it was.

Ive often questioned if there is any significant difference between Trepanoma and Burgdorferi.

2014 Mold Sick,2015 Clinical Lyme and co.,2016 Morgellons,2017 Remission
YT: ClintFromNYtoVA2
Twitter: @ClintFromNYtoVA
updated 21apr18 Blog: www.fascinatingtimetobealive.blogspot.com/
" The path to disappointment is paved with expectations "

mpost
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   Posted 5/22/2018 3:19 PM (GMT -6)   
not normally. no.

when u get very old and sick of other things, then your immune system is very weak and yeah then it can happen. Many say it is a common cause of Alzheimer's.

But then u can get all sorts of diseases including cancer... it all comes down to the immune system, if it works properly or not.

In people that have healthy immune system the answer is NO

magoo2
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   Posted 5/22/2018 7:54 PM (GMT -6)   
mpost-normally you wouldn't get lyme either

Psilociraptor
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   Posted 5/23/2018 4:43 AM (GMT -6)   
magoo2 said...
mpost-normally you wouldn't get lyme either


I don't know that this is well substantiated. Borrelia is a primary human pathogen. General health can certainly go a long way towards healing and certain humans may be somewhat resistant, but usually exposure to Lyme appears to be sufficient to cause disease in primates. I don't know that I fully agree with mpost either. Oral treponemes don't cause problems when they don't have the microaerophilic pockets of diseased gums to proliferate in. But their presence in the blood stream is another story. I mean, disease gums definitely falls somewhere on the spectrum of immune dysfunction for sure, but I don't know that you have to be very old with a very weak immune system. Those things are not supposed to be in your blood period and simply gaining entry is likely to be enough to cause a chronic inflammatory response. There are many pathobionts within the human body like this with the capacity to cause serious illness under certain conditions. Those conditions would definitely amount to some sort of immune dysfunction, but it doesn't have to be all that extreme. It could be simply the wiping out of a competing flora by antibiotics for example. Something plenty of young people experience.

They have not been as well studied though so I don't think we can say whether they cause Lyme symptoms. They've been connected with atherosclerosis, pancreatic cancer, and alzheimers. So they probably contribute to a variety of diseases. But Lyme like disease specifically? Who can say.

ChickenArise
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   Posted 5/23/2018 12:16 PM (GMT -6)   
Although personally I am looking for more of a relation between Borellia and the T.Denticola variety, I found this interesting as far as the relation to Trepanoma:

" In addition, B. burgdorferi and T. pallidum spirochetes, as well as
lipoproteins and lipopeptides derived from these organisms can induce
pro- and anti-inflammatory cytokines, including TNF, IL-1β , IL-6, IL-8,
IL-10, and IL-12 in monocytes via an initial signaling or binding event
with the CD-14 receptor "

aldf.com/wp-content/themes/ALDF/pdf/JCI0112484.pdf

2014 Mold Sick,2015 Clinical Lyme and co.,2016 Morgellons,2017 Remission
YT: ClintFromNYtoVA2
Twitter: @ClintFromNYtoVA
updated 21apr18 Blog: www.fascinatingtimetobealive.blogspot.com/
" The path to disappointment is paved with expectations "

ChickenArise
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   Posted 5/23/2018 12:20 PM (GMT -6)   
This is more the area I am focused on:
Treponema denticola: not so harmless after all
/www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3673

2014 Mold Sick,2015 Clinical Lyme and co.,2016 Morgellons,2017 Remission
YT: ClintFromNYtoVA2
Twitter: @ClintFromNYtoVA
updated 21apr18 Blog: www.fascinatingtimetobealive.blogspot.com/
" The path to disappointment is paved with expectations "

mpost
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Date Joined Feb 2015
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   Posted 5/23/2018 2:24 PM (GMT -6)   
magoo2 said...
mpost-normally you wouldn't get lyme either


what are you talking about ? lyme is a disease that affects immunocompetent patients. young healthy people as well as seniors...

i have not heard of "Treponema denticola CDC protest" ... but i heard of many lyme ones ... smurf


so i dare to say the vast majority of cases when that dental spirochete gets nuts is in people with severely deranged immune systems. Like u have untreated AIDS , then ofc u can have a serious case of this bacteria spreading... or if u are 90 years old. It can get to your brain then u will develop alzheimers and nobody will know why...

magoo2
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   Posted 5/23/2018 6:29 PM (GMT -6)   
mpost-many docs disagree with your immunocopetent statement. Many docs treat lyme by simply making the body healthier. Often they do this by removing root canals ( pockets of infections), removing metals, treating parasites, stem cells and changing diets and never treating the lyme.
There is a reason why many lyme docs suggest removing root canals.

bluelyme
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   Posted 5/23/2018 8:44 PM (GMT -6)   
any spirochete is not known to be good h pylori is related to stomach cancer ....dr nordquist has cool phase videos on u toob , honey and herbs worked better than chlorine dioxide on oral spirochetes

Psilociraptor
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Date Joined Jul 2016
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   Posted 5/23/2018 9:13 PM (GMT -6)   
mpost said...


so i dare to say the vast majority of cases when that dental spirochete gets nuts is in people with severely deranged immune systems. Like u have untreated AIDS , then ofc u can have a serious case of this bacteria spreading... or if u are 90 years old. It can get to your brain then u will develop alzheimers and nobody will know why...


I don't know that awareness has anything to do with reality. There are plenty of autoimmune diseases with no known cause even though pathogens are the most likely explanation. Some day there may be CDC rallies tongue

mpost
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   Posted 5/23/2018 10:20 PM (GMT -6)   
bluelyme said...
any spirochete is not known to be good h pylori is related to stomach cancer ....dr nordquist has cool phase videos on u toob , honey and herbs worked better than chlorine dioxide on oral spirochetes


h pylori is not a spirochete. it has a helical shape.

mpost
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Date Joined Feb 2015
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   Posted 5/23/2018 10:53 PM (GMT -6)   
magoo2 said...
mpost-many docs disagree with your immunocopetent statement. Many docs treat lyme by simply making the body healthier. Often they do this by removing root canals ( pockets of infections), removing metals, treating parasites, stem cells and changing diets and never treating the lyme.
There is a reason why many lyme docs suggest removing root canals.
.

ive eaten like a saint since a few years ago and im not feeling much better and still sick.

i am gluten free dairy free sugar free. i NEVER cheat. detoxing with herbs and meds.

have not had a wine glass since xmas. .
all these things helped a little, but see i relapsed while doing them and the herbs! the only thing that helped me significantly, like ever, were antibiotics.

so please indicate us the forum users that got healed just by eating healthy , i would like to learn their secrets.

WalkingbyFaith
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Date Joined Aug 2017
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   Posted 5/24/2018 8:44 AM (GMT -6)   
mpost said...
magoo2 said...
mpost-many docs disagree with your immunocopetent statement. Many docs treat lyme by simply making the body healthier. Often they do this by removing root canals ( pockets of infections), removing metals, treating parasites, stem cells and changing diets and never treating the lyme.
There is a reason why many lyme docs suggest removing root canals.
.

ive eaten like a saint since a few years ago and im not feeling much better and still sick.

i am gluten free dairy free sugar free. i NEVER cheat. detoxing with herbs and meds.

have not had a wine glass since xmas. .
all these things helped a little, but see i relapsed while doing them and the herbs! the only thing that helped me significantly, like ever, were antibiotics.

so please indicate us the forum users that got healed just by eating healthy , i would like to learn their secrets.


mpost,

Changing diets is only one thing in a list of things mentioned.

Missouri
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Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 397
   Posted 5/24/2018 9:25 AM (GMT -6)   
The most interesting thing I saw in one of the studies is that it looks like they say dental spirochetes light up Band 43 on Serological blots??? Am I reading that right?

https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/73677/j.1399-302X.2007.00404.x.pdf;jsessionid=FAFCED7FDD86A05D09F9B9988D948508?sequence=1

magoo2
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   Posted 5/24/2018 4:46 PM (GMT -6)   
mpost- when did I say people got healed by just eating healthy???????????????

ChickenArise
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Date Joined Nov 2015
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   Posted 5/25/2018 4:13 PM (GMT -6)   
Missouri said...
The most interesting thing I saw in one of the studies is that it looks like they say dental spirochetes light up Band 43 on Serological blots??? Am I reading that right?

https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/73677/j.1399-302X.2007.00404.x.pdf;jsessionid=FAFCED7FDD86A05D09F9B9988D948508?sequence=1


Not sure but putting this on the backburner for later reading. Thanks.

2014 Mold Sick,2015 Clinical Lyme and co.,2016 Morgellons,2017 Remission
YT: ClintFromNYtoVA2
Twitter: @ClintFromNYtoVA
updated 21apr18 Blog: www.fascinatingtimetobealive.blogspot.com/
" The path to disappointment is paved with expectations "

bluelyme
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Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4907
   Posted 5/26/2018 5:34 PM (GMT -6)   
mpost said...
bluelyme said...
any spirochete is not known to be good h pylori is related to stomach cancer ....dr nordquist has cool phase videos on u toob , honey and herbs worked better than chlorine dioxide on oral spirochetes


h pylori is not a spirochete. it has a helical shape.
...

i sit sorta corrected ...if you call a rose a stinkblossom, does it not still smell like a rose? ...ok gram neg cocci but has flagella and converts like a kete ...here wiki but whaddatheyknow

"H. pylori is a helix-shaped (classified as a curved rod, not spirochaete) Gram-negative bacterium about 3 μm long with a diameter of about 0.5μm. H. pylori can be demonstrated in tissue by Gram stain, Giemsa stain, haematoxylin–eosin stain, Warthin–Starry silver stain, acridine orange stain, and phase-contrast microscopy. It is capable of forming biofilms[20] and can convert from spiral to a possibly viable but nonculturable coccoid form.[21]

H. pylori has four to six flagella at the same location; all gastric and enterohepatic Helicobacter species are highly motile owing to flagella.[22] The characteristic sheathed flagellar filaments of Helicobacter are composed of two copolymerized flagellins, FlaA and FlaB.[23]

and treatment is 3 abx inc flagyl? like cpn pleomorphic are doozies ...

back on mouth health , baking soda, propolis and stabilized cd mouthwash have my gums pink again ...occasionally i will microsting with venom

Noah2112
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 126
   Posted 5/27/2018 11:50 AM (GMT -6)   
If someone recovers completely from their symptoms by only making lifestyle and diet changes without taking antimicrobial medication (whatever that medication may be), then they did not have Lyme or any other serious infection.

OriolCarol
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Date Joined Dec 2017
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   Posted 5/27/2018 2:30 PM (GMT -6)   
On person told me one day that he cured his lyme with bioressonance... its a quackery... like cure lyme with diet... i think diet is important to avoid candida infections but it doesn't do anythink with lyme...lyme that cure without abx is not lyme.

Syphilis can not be cure with diet and healty lifestyle... the same with lyme.

magoo2
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Date Joined Mar 2015
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   Posted 5/27/2018 10:08 PM (GMT -6)   
Noah2112- many doc treat lyme without antimicrobials.

They all do way more than diet.
Read Yolonda;s book
Youtube Dr Rau
Read Dr Yu's book.
There are many more examples.

Believe whatever you want but there are reasons why some get lyme and others never do.
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