Stopping buhner to DETOx

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Woodduck12
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 135
   Posted 5/22/2018 1:47 PM (GMT -6)   
I have been doing the buhner BART protocol for about 5 months now.. next week would be a month going full dose protocol - arginine. My nuero symptoms are not as bad. However I would have a few days when I would fell about 80 percent. This whole month I have not returned to baseline but not getting worse. It's frustrates me and I hate the intrusive thoughts. Unfortunately I need to work.

I am torn because part of me wants to stop for say a week and detox and see what happens. Part of me wants to keep at because it could be the big battle before the war is over.

LJohn23
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 67
   Posted 5/22/2018 4:29 PM (GMT -6)   
Do you think if you stop youll lose some progress?

LJohn23
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 67
   Posted 5/22/2018 4:33 PM (GMT -6)   
And if you stop to detox, would you pick right back up with you herxing cause the bartonella hasn't been hit like this before and i know what its like to go to full dosaging on the buhner herbs for bart

goshawk
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 2123
   Posted 5/22/2018 4:53 PM (GMT -6)   
For me, I wouldn't stop if I was still having symptoms.

I understand that it seems like 5 months would be a long time ,but for some of us it can take many , many months and years to get well.

I am 21 months treating, the last 11 months on all herbal protocols. 90 to 95 % better but still was having some Bart symptoms and I just herxed pretty darn good after introducing Jerrnigans Borrelogen to the mix.

It brought out strong Bartonella symptoms for me. Some that I haven't had for over 5 months.

My point is if you have any symptoms you still need to be treating.

Maybe you might want to consider adding something else in if your kinda at a plateau.

Take care and I wish you the best of healing and soon.

WalkingbyFaith
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Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1682
   Posted 5/22/2018 6:25 PM (GMT -6)   
Woodduck,

I stopped briefly about 6 weeks ago and slowly started back at reduced doses and only 2x day instead of 3. For about 2 weeks, I felt somewhat better, as I felt I had been in a perpetual herx of various sorts since Dec.

Anyway, I'm now feeling much worse, mainly with overall pain and joint and muscle stiffness, weakness, including feet. I can't say for sure that bartonella is the cause, as my diet has been really bad, and I have other things such as high antibodies for both pneumonias and mold issues, all of which can cause pain, inflammation and joint and muscle symptoms.

I expect if I cleaned up my diet that some of my pain would go away.

I understand the dilemna. Maybe just break for 3 days at a time or just take a break from antimicrobials and not everything.

I was doing the full protocol except arginine, but I could never get above a few drops of tbe potent herbs, even after many months. I will say that now, I feel much more sensitive than I did initially, and that really concerns me, as I was already very sensitive.

Post Edited (WalkingbyFaith) : 5/22/2018 6:29:21 PM (GMT-6)


1000Daisies
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Date Joined Apr 2016
Total Posts : 2438
   Posted 5/22/2018 8:24 PM (GMT -6)   
I do take periodic breaks from treatment - including herbals. I do think it makes sense, at times, to stop and reevaluate where your symptoms are. We have done such. We generally don't see an obvious worsening of symptoms from stopping (symptoms are usually pretty variable without predictable patterns/cycles).

1000Daisies
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Date Joined Apr 2016
Total Posts : 2438
   Posted 5/22/2018 8:35 PM (GMT -6)   
WalkingbyFaith said...
Woodduck,
I understand the dilemna. Maybe just break for 3 days at a time or just take a break from antimicrobials and not everything.

I was doing the full protocol except arginine, but I could never get above a few drops of tbe potent herbs, even after many months. I will say that now, I feel much more sensitive than I did initially, and that really concerns me, as I was already very sensitive.


WBF, by chance, did you read a reply on a different thread from me in regards to Byron White talk during the Chronic Lyme Disease Summit #3? Here is my copy/paste below.

*****************************************
I listened to Byron White speak during the Chronic Lyme Disease Summit #3. I understood him to say that when people react to very low doses of the herbal formulas, that they are very toxic and to back up to address the detox and inflammation. He recommended the detox2 formula before doing the other types of specific herbals (like babs/bartonella/etc). Said he saw improvement from detox2/anti-inflammation (believe he said both?) first before even adding the other combo herbals. I thought that was hopeful (although we don't tend to react well to what works for others - but this makes good logical sense).
My Kid#2 doesn't respond to any detox methods, so it's discouraging. But I'm going to give this a try and see what happens!
*****************************************

I wondered about you, as you kind of remind me of us and how we sometimes react to the herbals. Anyways, I thought what Byron White said was interesting. For my Kid#2, he never reacted well to detoxing methods (didn't see any benefit), but I'm going to try the Byron White detox2 and anti-inflammatories next. (We're off the rest of the herbals now.) Then we'll add in some other formulas later. I'm anxious to see how he responds to the detox2 and anti-inflammatory ones! Keep fingers crossed! Thinking of you!

Woodduck12
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 135
   Posted 5/22/2018 8:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Such a mystery this bug. Its just I can feel the swelling and inflammation in my brain 24/7 it's not bad but noticable. This inflammation is what is causing the pscy issues. I get rid of the inflammation I get rid of the OCD and other psych stuff. Does the Bart herbs cross the BB well enough?

borrelioburgdorferii
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 209
   Posted 5/22/2018 9:08 PM (GMT -6)   
Off of herbs and abx for months now here, wondering when and how I will resume treatment. I'll say that it feels overall like a cyst that keeps filling up and never drains completely, in other words it feels like I've given the bugs n co a chance to multiply... against my better clinical judgment. For me it's trying to clean up diet, get enough sleep and taking supplements and a few prescriptions to aid the symptoms. I get a few 80 percent and symptom free days occasionally, but only with the strictest of diet.

Today's symptom: hot burning cold feet and rib pain, and a weird sharp bug-like eating pain in my right eyeball then later blurriness in that same eye...
Tick bite/EM rash +10 years ago
Active, athletic, with past concussions.
1st known bite: tick infested area, flu, chills, fever, neuro symptoms.
Treat with ABX/herbs recently (2-5 years now).
Get symptom free with strict diet: paleo/keto/IM fasting
Have done Buhner's Protocol, Doxycycline, Amoxicillin, Supplements.
IgG via IgeneX 31-IND, 41++, 58+ (Sep-2016)
IgM via IgeneX 31+, 41-IND (Sep-2016)

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1682
   Posted 5/23/2018 8:16 PM (GMT -6)   
1000Daisies said...
WalkingbyFaith said...
Woodduck,
I understand the dilemna. Maybe just break for 3 days at a time or just take a break from antimicrobials and not everything.

I was doing the full protocol except arginine, but I could never get above a few drops of tbe potent herbs, even after many months. I will say that now, I feel much more sensitive than I did initially, and that really concerns me, as I was already very sensitive.


WBF, by chance, did you read a reply on a different thread from me in regards to Byron White talk during the Chronic Lyme Disease Summit #3? Here is my copy/paste below.

*****************************************
I listened to Byron White speak during the Chronic Lyme Disease Summit #3. I understood him to say that when people react to very low doses of the herbal formulas, that they are very toxic and to back up to address the detox and inflammation. He recommended the detox2 formula before doing the other types of specific herbals (like babs/bartonella/etc). Said he saw improvement from detox2/anti-inflammation (believe he said both?) first before even adding the other combo herbals. I thought that was hopeful (although we don't tend to react well to what works for others - but this makes good logical sense).
My Kid#2 doesn't respond to any detox methods, so it's discouraging. But I'm going to give this a try and see what happens!
*****************************************

I wondered about you, as you kind of remind me of us and how we sometimes react to the herbals. Anyways, I thought what Byron White said was interesting. For my Kid#2, he never reacted well to detoxing methods (didn't see any benefit), but I'm going to try the Byron White detox2 and anti-inflammatories next. (We're off the rest of the herbals now.) Then we'll add in some other formulas later. I'm anxious to see how he responds to the detox2 and anti-inflammatory ones! Keep fingers crossed! Thinking of you!


1000Daisies,

Thank you so much!! No, I didn't see the other thread and almost missed this one. Certainly makes sense. I know from more recent lab tests that mold is still an ongoing issue, and is likely holding me back. If I ever get in a clean, stable living situation, I will have to revisit the CIRS mold scenario.

That's good info you provided. I assume that is a Byron White detox formula. I'll have to look it up and compare it to the Jernigan's Neuro Antitox II CNS/PNS that I was thinking of ordering. Not sure which would be best.

Woodduck12
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 135
   Posted 5/24/2018 8:08 AM (GMT -6)   
Let me know how you do with those products. I was thinking about trying a nuero antiox. As well.
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