How long can a herx last?

New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> ]

Garion
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2018
Total Posts : 50
   Posted 7/9/2018 10:44 AM (GMT -6)   
So about a week ago i changed my ABX regimen. I stopped Mino, and started Ceftin. I changed it because i felt i wans't making any progress and my symptoms were pretty severe. Anyway, since then i feel like my symptoms have gotten even worse, fatigue and dizzyness, general tiredness are the main culprits but twitching and pain also seemed slighty elevated.

So my question is, how long do herxes last? I think i read the buhner said it's only a day or two, and that only a small percentage of people experience herx reactions?

opugirl
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 3824
   Posted 7/9/2018 10:56 AM (GMT -6)   
I will say for me the dizzyness was very strong when I started ceftin. In general herx reactions should only last a day or two but there are people that are more susceptible to having longer reactions. Silly question but it DOES matter...are you able to 'move' your toxins at least once a day? This could prolong symptoms if you are not.
Forum Moderator

July 2007 - Deer tick bite w/ physician confirmed EM Rash - given 10 days of Doxy
October 2012 - My world gets rocked January 2013 - My world turns upside down
March 2013 - Igenex +, start treatment with LLMD, LLND, and herbalist
August 2013- Finished all abx, continuing with herbs and homeopathy, Feeling good!
July 2014- Off all treatment since Jan 2014, just taking vitamins

Garion
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2018
Total Posts : 50
   Posted 7/9/2018 11:00 AM (GMT -6)   
Yip, pretty regular. And i take activated charcoal every night to help with getting the toxins out.

That is kind of what i thought though, about a day or two, which makes me think this is more of a side effect or just a flare

Hoagie
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2017
Total Posts : 665
   Posted 7/9/2018 11:10 AM (GMT -6)   
I've experienced herxes that have lasted weeks to over a month. Too many toxins. I seem to be prone to prolonged herxing because of mold exposure and having an HLA gene. So any added toxins seem to get recycled for a while.

Dahlias
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2017
Total Posts : 498
   Posted 7/9/2018 12:59 PM (GMT -6)   
I had a huge flare followed by a herx that lasted for months last fall. It was exacerbated by ignorance and major mistakes. But I think if you have a heavy bacterial load and you have a new treatment that is more effective against a certain bacteria, you could have an extended herx.
"This too shall pass. It might pass like a kidney stone, but it will pass."

Lyme, babesia, mycoplasma pneumonia. Diagnosed May 2017. Neuro symptoms began September 2017. Treating 11 months so far.

Healing98
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts : 1295
   Posted 7/9/2018 1:55 PM (GMT -6)   
I too am rotating between Mino and Ceftin right now. Both give me severe side effects such as ears ringing, extreme dizziness, palpitations and tachycardia. Mino also gives me the worst muscle and ligament pains/inflammation, especially in the legs and back

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33239
   Posted 7/9/2018 2:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Healing98 said...
I too am rotating between Mino and Ceftin right now. Both give me severe side effects such as ears ringing, extreme dizziness, palpitations and tachycardia. Mino also gives me the worst muscle and ligament pains/inflammation, especially in the legs and back


How are you determining that it’s side effects and not herxing?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Garion
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2018
Total Posts : 50
   Posted 7/9/2018 2:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Healing98, i'm curious when you say rotating between, what do you mean by that? Are you rotating back and forth, or just going from one to the other once.

Hoagie and Dahlias, that is really interesting. It's so hard for me to ever know if what i am feeling is a herx. My symptoms fluctuate all the time, and it is usually a stretch to align and increase or decrease of symptoms with any medication or food changes.

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1818
   Posted 7/9/2018 6:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Hoagie said...
I've experienced herxes that have lasted weeks to over a month. Too many toxins. I seem to be prone to prolonged herxing because of mold exposure and having an HLA gene. So any added toxins seem to get recycled for a while.


Me, too. After 7 days of minocycline in Jan 2017 and 7 days of Augmentin in Dec 2017, I had herxes that lasted 3-4 months, respectively.

I had another 7 days of Augmentin and took the last dose today. The herxing started while taking it this time. I'm trying not to get scared about what's going to happen in the days/weeks to come, but by early indications it's going to be even worse this time.

I have mold, too, and one of the "dreaded" multi-susceptible HLA-DR genes.

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1818
   Posted 7/9/2018 6:08 PM (GMT -6)   
Garion said...
It's so hard for me to ever know if what i am feeling is a herx. My symptoms fluctuate all the time, and it is usually a stretch to align and increase or decrease of symptoms with any medication or food changes.


I'm like that, too, but the herxes/flares I had following abx were debilitating - far beyond my normal merry-go-round of symptoms going up and down and round and round.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33239
   Posted 7/9/2018 7:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Garion said...
Healing98, i'm curious when you say rotating between, what do you mean by that? Are you rotating back and forth, or just going from one to the other once.

Hoagie and Dahlias, that is really interesting. It's so hard for me to ever know if what i am feeling is a herx. My symptoms fluctuate all the time, and it is usually a stretch to align and increase or decrease of symptoms with any medication or food changes.


Except for the really bad herxes that happened a short time after starting a new medication - I have difficulty knowing herx vs flare a lot.

Even off abx I have flares - and good days, bad days, with symptoms changing throughout the day.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Hoagie
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2017
Total Posts : 665
   Posted 7/9/2018 7:38 PM (GMT -6)   
Garion said...
Healing98, i'm curious when you say rotating between, what do you mean by that? Are you rotating back and forth, or just going from one to the other once.

Hoagie and Dahlias, that is really interesting. It's so hard for me to ever know if what i am feeling is a herx. My symptoms fluctuate all the time, and it is usually a stretch to align and increase or decrease of symptoms with any medication or food changes.


The first 6 months, I didn't know what was going on. I stopped abx tx twice, both times I was feeling a lot better about a month after stopping. I wasn't quite sure what to think of this until I found that I had an HLA gene that makes it difficult for my body to rid itself of mold toxins. So, the only thing that made sense to me was being on abx made the toxin load about unbearable. My body could not rid itself of the toxins fast enough to keep the load down. So, now that my mold exposure is a lot less, not zero yet, I think I would have an easier time with abx. However, I have chosen not to go that route. I just recently did an overload on probiotics and I believe the increase in symptoms I am experiencing is from some type of yeast die off in my gut. Not sure what else it could be.

Rikky1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2879
   Posted 7/10/2018 9:56 PM (GMT -6)   
>Me, too. After 7 days of minocycline in Jan 2017 and 7 days of Augmentin in Dec 2017, I had herxes that lasted 3-4 months, respectively.

this is next to impossible and probably misinterpreting whats actually going on with you. more than likely you're getting a response from your immune system that is confused on what is transpiring. most prominent LLMD's will tell you that herxes scientifically cannot possibly last this long.

i guess in the end if you are feeling like crap it doesn't matter what we call it all we want is to lessen the misery.

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1818
   Posted 7/10/2018 10:21 PM (GMT -6)   
Rikky1 said...
>Me, too. After 7 days of minocycline in Jan 2017 and 7 days of Augmentin in Dec 2017, I had herxes that lasted 3-4 months, respectively.

this is next to impossible and probably misinterpreting whats actually going on with you. more than likely you're getting a response from your immune system that is confused on what is transpiring. most prominent LLMD's will tell you that herxes scientifically cannot possibly last this long.

i guess in the end if you are feeling like crap it doesn't matter what we call it all we want is to lessen the misery.


Rikky,

I've wondered about this every time it's happened. The doc who prescribed the mino (who had Lyme herself) had no explanation. The Lyme doctor I'm seeing now said it was a sign I should stay on the abx longterm (no explanation beyond that). I know I 've read numerous accounts on here where LLMD'S stop longterm abx "to see how the person's immune system responds." I'm not sure exactly what kind of immune response they are looking for or hope to see.

To me, it seems like a wrong, dysfunctional response, if that's what it is. The first 2 times, it really started snowballing days AFTER STOPPING the abx and went on for months. I'll know soon enough how this round is going to go. I finished the Augmentin yesterday and started hurting pretty bad before bed last night. I took an Aleve last night, and it worked really well. Felt much better today and took an Aleve again tonight.

Thing is, my symptoms started 9 years ago, but I never had such reactions following abx until Jan 2017. I just wish I had a believable explanation as to why.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33239
   Posted 7/10/2018 11:11 PM (GMT -6)   
WalkingbyFaith said...
Rikky1 said...
>Me, too. After 7 days of minocycline in Jan 2017 and 7 days of Augmentin in Dec 2017, I had herxes that lasted 3-4 months, respectively.

this is next to impossible and probably misinterpreting whats actually going on with you. more than likely you're getting a response from your immune system that is confused on what is transpiring. most prominent LLMD's will tell you that herxes scientifically cannot possibly last this long.

i guess in the end if you are feeling like crap it doesn't matter what we call it all we want is to lessen the misery.


Rikky,

I've wondered about this every time it's happened. The doc who prescribed the mino (who had Lyme herself) had no explanation. The Lyme doctor I'm seeing now said it was a sign I should stay on the abx longterm (no explanation beyond that). I know I 've read numerous accounts on here where LLMD'S stop longterm abx "to see how the person's immune system responds." I'm not sure exactly what kind of immune response they are looking for or hope to see.


They are looking for the immune system to keep the symptoms down - for no backslide in progress.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1818
   Posted 7/11/2018 8:59 AM (GMT -6)   
Girlie said...
WalkingbyFaith said...
Rikky1 said...
>Me, too. After 7 days of minocycline in Jan 2017 and 7 days of Augmentin in Dec 2017, I had herxes that lasted 3-4 months, respectively.

this is next to impossible and probably misinterpreting whats actually going on with you. more than likely you're getting a response from your immune system that is confused on what is transpiring. most prominent LLMD's will tell you that herxes scientifically cannot possibly last this long.

i guess in the end if you are feeling like crap it doesn't matter what we call it all we want is to lessen the misery.


Rikky,

I've wondered about this every time it's happened. The doc who prescribed the mino (who had Lyme herself) had no explanation. The Lyme doctor I'm seeing now said it was a sign I should stay on the abx longterm (no explanation beyond that). I know I 've read numerous accounts on here where LLMD'S stop longterm abx "to see how the person's immune system responds." I'm not sure exactly what kind of immune response they are looking for or hope to see.


They are looking for the immune system to keep the symptoms down - for no backslide in progress.


Then what does it mean when symptoms go wild and snowball worse than they ever were before?

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33239
   Posted 7/11/2018 6:23 PM (GMT -6)   
WalkingbyFaith said...
Girlie said...
WalkingbyFaith said...
Rikky1 said...
>Me, too. After 7 days of minocycline in Jan 2017 and 7 days of Augmentin in Dec 2017, I had herxes that lasted 3-4 months, respectively.

this is next to impossible and probably misinterpreting whats actually going on with you. more than likely you're getting a response from your immune system that is confused on what is transpiring. most prominent LLMD's will tell you that herxes scientifically cannot possibly last this long.

i guess in the end if you are feeling like crap it doesn't matter what we call it all we want is to lessen the misery.


Rikky,

I've wondered about this every time it's happened. The doc who prescribed the mino (who had Lyme herself) had no explanation. The Lyme doctor I'm seeing now said it was a sign I should stay on the abx longterm (no explanation beyond that). I know I 've read numerous accounts on here where LLMD'S stop longterm abx "to see how the person's immune system responds." I'm not sure exactly what kind of immune response they are looking for or hope to see.


They are looking for the immune system to keep the symptoms down - for no backslide in progress.


Then what does it mean when symptoms go wild and snowball worse than they ever were before?


I would think it means that the antibiotics were holding the symptoms at bay...and stopping them let it take hold and progress.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Garion
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2018
Total Posts : 50
   Posted 7/11/2018 8:28 PM (GMT -6)   
I am feeling a little better than two days ago. I guess now I wait to see if this is just the same up and down swing as before or if the antibiotics start to do something.

Aerose91
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 399
   Posted 7/11/2018 10:30 PM (GMT -6)   
I only have one LLMD to reference because he's the only one I've spoken about this with but Dr M says once on the correct dosage of Rifampin or Rifabutin, his bartonella patients herx for up to 6 or 8 months. I thought that was crazy but i trust his expertise

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1818
   Posted 7/12/2018 11:14 AM (GMT -6)   
Aerose91 said...
I only have one LLMD to reference because he's the only one I've spoken about this with but Dr M says once on the correct dosage of Rifampin or Rifabutin, his bartonella patients herx for up to 6 or 8 months. I thought that was crazy but i trust his expertise


Aerose,

Thx!!! Does Dr. M. confirm bartonella diagnosis wirh labs from Galaxy or does he diagnose clinically?

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33239
   Posted 7/12/2018 12:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Aerose91 said...
I only have one LLMD to reference because he's the only one I've spoken about this with but Dr M says once on the correct dosage of Rifampin or Rifabutin, his bartonella patients herx for up to 6 or 8 months. I thought that was crazy but i trust his expertise


You're talking about the bart guru (galaxy lab) , right?


I also know someone who had tough times for even longer than 8 months...who was seeing Dr. M.
He's doing much better now...

If it's the bart guru, he does use Galaxy Labs. I think not only as diagnosis, but also to gauge progress...he does a retest...maybe two?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
Forum Information
Currently it is Tuesday, July 17, 2018 6:31 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 2,982,557 posts in 327,014 threads.
View Active Threads


Who's Online
This forum has 161834 registered members. Please welcome our newest member, SGTUSMC68.
481 Guest(s), 11 Registered Member(s) are currently online.  Details
Alcie, Jasperilla, sandyfeet, pombear, Michael_T, Qymaen-Jai, Handyman123, Saipan Paradise, sierraDon, k07, borborygmi