13 genes that effect immune cell system, your ability to heal from chronic pathogen illness

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astroman
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   Posted 7/10/2018 12:34 PM (GMT -6)   
I am surprised the lyme community does not speak of this (?). Yet, so many are wondering why they cant get better.

If your lymphocytes (and general immunoglobulins) stay low, and your lyme symptoms persist, any of these possible gene defects could be why:

CD19 CD81 CR2 ICOS IKZF1 IL21 LRBA MS4A1 NFKB1 NFKB2 PRKCD TNFRSF13B TNFRSF13C

I found this info researching immuno deficiency genes, on a immuno website, not a blog. If these are "tripped" / "switched on" any virus or bacterial condition can be chronic. That would Include lyme.

EDIT: One more that I posted about before: CTLA4 or written CTLA-4; which can be up-regulated by the chemical/drug known as HSP90 (in cancer therapy).
Had initial lyme symptoms late 80's, then again and with bullseye early 90's. Ended ABX for Lyme in Jan 2016. Flares ended after. Rebuilding / fine tuning / fixing muscles since then; member "10 Percenters Lyme Club". What an adventure this has been. Twenty years of Hashimoto adds to the enjoyment.

Post Edited (astroman) : 7/10/2018 10:24:26 PM (GMT-6)


opugirl
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   Posted 7/10/2018 3:35 PM (GMT -6)   
Astroman,

Any interesting info on how to accommodate for this or overcome it? Sometimes when some genes are underregulated other genes/pathways overregulate to compensate.

~beth
Forum Moderator

July 2007 - Deer tick bite w/ physician confirmed EM Rash - given 10 days of Doxy
October 2012 - My world gets rocked January 2013 - My world turns upside down
March 2013 - Igenex +, start treatment with LLMD, LLND, and herbalist
August 2013- Finished all abx, continuing with herbs and homeopathy, Feeling good!
July 2014- Off all treatment since Jan 2014, just taking vitamins

goshawk
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   Posted 7/10/2018 3:45 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for this important information to check out.

astroman
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   Posted 7/10/2018 9:50 PM (GMT -6)   
opugirl said...
Astroman,

Any interesting info on how to accommodate for this or overcome it? Sometimes when some genes are underregulated other genes/pathways overregulate to compensate.

~beth


1)Advanced methods treating the genes: So far special drugs and stem cell work have been used in some cancer and aids patients. These genes reflect different areas / families of the immune cells - so their actions would most likely be different, thus treatment differs if its a B (target/marker-cell), T or NK cell.

2a)Up to now the "norm" treatment, IF treated, for the immuno deficiency (name of the disease) people has been adding new immune cells if they are low, by blood infusion vs treating gene defects. This is not something I would look forward to do. I hope my clinic has other options to try before this.

2b)People with this also have a few other regular lab values constantly low- globuin (protien), total blood protien, BUN ratio. There is a protien issue with many, without protien in blood you have no immune cell building blocks. These genes might be protien issue genes, I dont know yet. The saying your immune system starts in the gut - this is where that idea comes from..

2c)Ive read when infusion is used, the body can then kick the underlying germs making you sick, thats how it works with other germ illnesses, its a repeated patern for those with this "syndrome". So...this might be a good thing to do for those with this immune condition and some remaining lyme symptoms along with consistantly low cd57-the give away that your still not cured.


Besides genetics (genes), "immuno deficiency syndrome" can be caused by: Viral and bacterial infections and some cancers. There are different classifications of this "syndrome" based on what cells and antibodies do or don't function. It is considered a rare disease mostly because its rarely looked at and misdiagnosed when not lethal. Think fibromyalgia. There are a few associations for it but they dont say anything about lyme, which I'm guessing will change as more people such as myself surface.

Johns Hopkins University is working on immune cells deficiencies with lyme- so were not being ignored. Dont know if they are diving into gene work or not.

Maybe if the immune cells them selves are up-regulated, their correlating genes "switches" will re-set? just a thought. I know thats not the case in severe immune deficiency disease- some get blood infusion monthly. Some just when they cant "shake" some known virus or bacterial infection. Some Lyme Drs do this apparently- the ones who measure patience immune cells over a course of time and see no improvement.

I was just "accepted" to an immune clinic waiting list (few months), and waiting to hear back from another. "Acceptance" is based on my small handful of under range immune system lab tests (immunoglobulins and lymphocytes) and autoimmune antibody positives/symptoms. Some repeated. I'm guessing this is where my remaining symptoms are coming from. Even though my worst lyme symptoms followed after a bullseye in my early 20's, I did have some abnormal brain fog, fatigue and muscle pain from 2nd grade onward that other kids didnt have. I dont know if this clinic will automatically do any gene testing, but I will certainly ask. They said they will perform more specialty tests ive not had yet. So at least I will learn more about the condition, even if i dont treat it (yet).

Ive had just about all of the nueruo- muscular disorder genes tested (many) from a grant through a specialty hospital..Pretty sure I can cross those off my list.
Had initial lyme symptoms late 80's, then again and with bullseye early 90's. Ended ABX for Lyme in Jan 2016. Flares ended after. Rebuilding / fine tuning / fixing muscles since then; member "10 Percenters Lyme Club". What an adventure this has been. Twenty years of Hashimoto adds to the enjoyment.

Post Edited (astroman) : 7/12/2018 8:16:56 AM (GMT-6)


WalkingbyFaith
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   Posted 7/10/2018 10:27 PM (GMT -6)   
Keep us posted on this, astroman. Hope this goes through as planned and you get some valuable and workable knowledge out of it.

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 4986
   Posted 7/11/2018 9:39 AM (GMT -6)   
When some people say lyme is the new aids....well, for those with a shot immune system at the cell level, thats the similarity, it IS similar.

Lymies who state they are "cured", but are ignoring low cd57 ALONG with lower lymphocytes need to check their B and T cell health. If this remain low, it can be a pre-curser to end of life later on.

I have looked at this continued pattern of labs for ten years now before putting all the pieces together. These labs were individually blown off by previous Drs who failed to put them together NOT looking at the big picture and end result.

To many Drs blow off what they dont understand, or forgot.... at our expense. And Drs without diagnostic skills should not be Drs......period.
Had initial lyme symptoms late 80's, then again and with bullseye early 90's. Ended ABX for Lyme in Jan 2016. Flares ended after. Rebuilding / fine tuning / fixing muscles since then; member "10 Percenters Lyme Club". What an adventure this has been. Twenty years of Hashimoto adds to the enjoyment.

Deejavu
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   Posted 7/11/2018 11:42 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi astroman,

After reading your post I remembered that Dr. Jernigan wrote a blog about genes and chronic illness that may interest you and others:

davidjernigan.blogspot.com/2014/12/you-may-not-be-stuck-with-your-genetic.html

Okay, you have done the DNA tests and found out you have mutations on many different SNPs, such as MTHFR, CBS, and several others. You are freaking out that you are permanently sick now...but are you really? Are you really stuck with the genetic mutations that you have inherited or have acquired in your lifetime from microbial interference, radiation, and toxins from your environment?

There is much disagreement among clinical doctors who are in practice, and bench scientists who like to represent that genetic problems such as MTHFR and CBS are unchangeable conditions. Finally there is research from the bench scientists that seems to support the idea that you may not be stuck with the illness from these mutations!

Clinical doctors, such as those at the Hansa Center for Optimum Health, are using this newly released science in new ways and often see dramatic improvements in people who according to bench science and mainstream medicine say should never improve due to genetic mutations.

While happy patients does not qualify as scientific fact, there may be an explanation for these improvements found in our doctor's utilization of the latest knowledge of how genes can be turned on and off, and even repaired, by treatments that seek to restore the body's regulation of the 4 million gene switches that were identified by scientists in what is called the ENCODE Project.

Okay stay with me and read to the end of the article. If may seem a little technical, but push through, because the more you know, the better you can understand what is possible.

—Pamela Scherer McLeod, writing for "Clinical Laboratory and Pathology News and Trends" states, "The big news is that researchers participating in the ENCODE Project have identified up to 4 million critical “gene switches.” The switches reside on the 80% of human DNA that has long been considered “junk.” (emphasis added)

"On September 5, 2013, prestigious scientific journals published a coordinated set of multiple papers and reviews announcing the discoveries, according to a National Human Genome Research Institute (NHGRI) press release. Almost 40 papers associated with the ENCODE research appeared in print, almost simultaneously. That unusual event is, in itself, a sign of the importance of these new scientific findings.

The published papers included one main integrative paper, plus five related papers in the journal Nature. The journal, Genome Research published 18 papers. The journal, Genome Biology published 6. Additionally, six review articles are being published in the Journal of Biological Chemistry, as well as two related papers in Science and one in the scientific journal Cell.

The findings are the outcome of a mammoth federal research project called ENCODE, an acronym of the Encyclopedia of DNA Elements. NHGRI, part of the National Institutes of Health (NIH), launched the project in 2003. The concerted effort involved 440 scientists from 32 laboratories around the world.

The ENCODE findings surprised researchers in two ways. First, they were surprised to find that at least 80% of the DNA is in fact active and needed. Second, they did not expect that a large proportion of this “junk” DNA is gene switches. “[Before ENCODE,] if you had said half of the genome—and probably more—has instructions for turning genes on and off, I don’t think people would have believed you,” observed John Stamatoyannopoulos, M.D., Associate Professor of Genome Sciences and Medicine at the University of Washington, in a story published in The New York Times. Stamatoyannopoulos participated in the ENCODE project.

The scientific community already considers the ENCODE discoveries a major medical and scientific breakthrough with enormous implications, the Times reported. The data showed that many complex diseases appear to be caused by minute changes in hundreds of gene switches.

“Most of the changes that affect disease don’t lie in the genes themselves,” explained Michael Snyder, Ph. D., Professor and Chair of Genetics at Stanford University, in the Times story. “[T]hey lie in the switches.” Snyder is Director of the Stanford Center for Genomics and Personalized Medicine and worked on the ENCODE project." (emphasis added)

Once again, happy, apparently healthy patients, who had chronic problems from gene expression problems and gene mutations do not qualify as true scientific proof that gene expression has changed. The only valid proof is to repeat the set of genetic tests post-treatment and see the problems no longer present.

Of course, no doctor normally would ever repeat a genetic test since the now outdated knowledge has been so deeply ingrained with the idea that your genetic mutations are permanent. Now possibly, once you have been treated and seem to have sustained improvement, it might be worth doing a followup DNA test to see if the mutations have changed!

The doctors at the Hansa Center are presently working with genetic laboratories to determine if the treatments can be documented scientifically through treatment and repeat analysis of the classical genetic testing methods. The idea is to affect the structure and function of the body's SNPs by targeting know mutations, such as MTHFR, through bioenergetically modifying the signals being transmitted biophotonically from the heart to these genetic switches. Some doctors will say, "All you have to do is treat the whole person, think nice thoughts, take this or that protocol of supplements, just do their version of energy medicine or machine." I guarantee you, none of these holistic approaches have resulted in one change to the actual SNP mutations. Others will say, I am only treating the SNPs and missing the whole person. Hear me now...if a mutation is to be repaired at all it will require a new and fundamental shift in how the entire person is treated.

No one knows yet how long this takes to get the switches to flip, or exactly how to affect the structure and function of the body in a consistent way, since everyone comes with their own unique "software" and their own and family history of traumas, and illness.

The only way to effect the whole of the body is to treat with the idea of correcting everything we can find that has gone wrong from head to toe, from the inside out, and the outside in. That is why our doctors are working fast and furious for at least an hour everyday for two weeks to address and facilitate the restoration of the most optimum structure and function of every possible problem we can find.

What is clear is that if we can document and reproduce ways to flip the right gene switches, the lights will turn on and health will follow, which is good news to all of those people who thought they were just stuck with their condition.

There is hope!

*Note: I recommend the Nutrigenomic Methylation Pathway Analysis to test for mutations in your metabolic and detox pathways.

The following link is the test I recommend: www.holisticheal.com/health-tests/nutrigenomic-testing The results of this report will come with more detailed health information with your DNA test than the 23&me test.

Denise
12 years well ~ used Dr. Jernigan's protocol from his book about Biological Medicine (used Borrelogen, Microbojen and Neuro-Antitox).

I still detox even though healed and drink Green Vibrance. I come back to help others for others helped me when I was sick. Pay it forward! smile

http://javuviews.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/how-i-became-better-from-chronic-lyme

Post Edited (Deejavu) : 7/11/2018 10:45:06 AM (GMT-6)


astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
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   Posted 7/11/2018 12:34 PM (GMT -6)   
Dr. Jernigan:

["No one knows yet how long this takes to get the switches to flip, or exactly how to affect the structure and function of the body in a consistent way, since everyone comes with their own unique "software" and their own and family history of traumas, and illness.............................................................................

What is clear is that if we can document and reproduce ways to flip the right gene switches, the lights will turn on and health will follow, which is good news to all of those people who thought they were just stuck with their condition."]

thats pretty much it.

Im not to overly concerned with genes unless I have experienceed health issues that coreatate with them. Problem is, I have and am still experiencing this with more than a few. This casts a light on my mothers past life long health issues too.

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 4986
   Posted 7/12/2018 12:29 AM (GMT -6)   
/www.selfhacked.com/blog/lymphocytes/#Measuring_Lymphocytes

Info about he different broken down lymphocytes. A lot of this is in the confusing cd57 test report- but lyme Drs who use this usually are only concerned with the total. Understanding the fine print will tell you more. Self hacked does not mention cd57, it may not be a good way to measure lyme but it IS measuring lymphocytes and if they are low, that's not good, lyme or no lyme.

I'd like to know where the info came from for raising and lowering lypho cells in the link, as I have not seen any definite proof other places.

Post Edited (astroman) : 7/12/2018 8:23:37 AM (GMT-6)


Deejavu
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Date Joined Aug 2005
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   Posted 7/12/2018 6:05 AM (GMT -6)   
I don't really understand about flipping the gene switches, too way out there for me!

I am concerned that my late Dad and older brother both passed away from diabetes and I know I inherited my Dad's genes so I am being very careful with my diet, weight and lifestyle not to get diabetes...

Interesting about measuring lymphocytes....

Denise
12 years well ~ used Dr. Jernigan's protocol from his book about Biological Medicine (used Borrelogen, Microbojen and Neuro-Antitox).

I still detox even though healed and drink Green Vibrance. I come back to help others for others helped me when I was sick. Pay it forward! smile

http://javuviews.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/how-i-became-better-from-chronic-lyme
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