Pulse schedule finally caused Bart setbacks.

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tickbite666
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 1625
   Posted 7/10/2018 1:37 PM (GMT -6)   
I had been pulsing 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off (then increasing to 3 week OFF) the same Tetra, Alinia, Diflucan, and Liposomal Oil of Oregano for some time. When I moved to 4 weeks off last August I paid dearly with a return of many neuro and blood rupture rash sx that had been gone or minimized for a good long while. I do maintain my ACV, GSE, Fresh Leaf Hout and JK Plus cocktail twice a day, plus Astragalus and the usual supplements daily.

Last March I tried for another 4 week OFF with similar negative results, and reduce quickly back to 2 ON and 2 weeks OFF. I saw my LLMD last night and we made a significant change to see if Bart has come back strongly. After a two week OFF period, today I went back on Alinia, and OoO and added Rifampin. I will phase in Biaxin and Nystatin gradually, and keep all five full time. I'll also rotate the OoO, Nustatin and NOW Candida Support often. I may also change WE Hout to their latest IHA Blend (Isatis root, Houttuynia and Alchornea) and see how it goes.

I just get tired of setbacks after over 8 years of ABX and herbal treatment and enjoying the little extra cash from pulsing.

later

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33273
   Posted 7/10/2018 2:58 PM (GMT -6)   
So, 2 on and 2 off and you're good? No symptoms?


Were you fine on the 2 on 3 off? If so...why not go to that?



Geez - it must be frustrating....but at least you feel good when you're on the abx. I haven't even gotten there yet...
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Post Edited (Girlie) : 7/10/2018 2:39:39 PM (GMT-6)


sierraDon
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2016
Total Posts : 222
   Posted 7/10/2018 3:38 PM (GMT -6)   
so, are you goin to continue Alinia, OoO, Rifampin, Biaxin, Nystatin fulltime or pulsed, just curious.

good luck, must be frustrating.

Healing98
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts : 1300
   Posted 7/10/2018 8:53 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Tickbite smile

You and I have been at it for about the same amount of time. I, like you, also take herbs twice a day. I have been disappointed that they are not doing much for me. So lately I have been thinking that maybe it's because I am not taking herbs more often, like 3 or 4 times a day. I remember reading here that someone who sees Dr. Buhner's associate recommended 4 times a day instead of three (or two).

I am going to increase the frequency and see if they help more. I know it is going to hit my wallet pretty hard but we'll see. I am already spending hundreds on herbs as it is.

Maybe if you took the herbs more frequently it might help you too.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33273
   Posted 7/10/2018 9:09 PM (GMT -6)   
Healing98 said...
Hi Tickbite smile

You and I have been at it for about the same amount of time. I, like you, also take herbs twice a day. I have been disappointed that they are not doing much for me. So lately I have been thinking that maybe it's because I am not taking herbs more often, like 3 or 4 times a day. I remember reading here that someone who sees Dr. Buhner's associate recommended 4 times a day instead of three (or two).

I am going to increase the frequency and see if they help more. I know it is going to hit my wallet pretty hard but we'll see. I am already spending hundreds on herbs as it is.

Maybe if you took the herbs more frequently it might help you too.


Generally, Buhners protocols are 3x daily dosing...but cd3764 saw one of Buhners recommended herbalists who told her to bump it up to 4x day.
It's probably her you're thinking about.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

tickbite666
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 1625
   Posted 7/11/2018 6:50 AM (GMT -6)   
Sorry for delay in reply and thanks for the comments.

1. Girlie.... After two setbacks with increasing to 4 weeks OFF we feel we need a major change. At 2 ON and 2 OFF I'm at 90 to 95% most of the time, and do OK at 2 ON and 3 OFF with some herx on days 3 and 4 after starting the ON cycle. But if this protocol is only for maintenance I'm not going to get to full remittance and not sure if I can do this for the rest of my life.

2. sieraDon... The new protocol will be full time. No pulsing. The last protocol hit mostly Lyme, and Bart only a little. New plan is to hit it Bart hard to get a reaction one way or the other, or we will change plan in three months. My theory is the 4 weeks OFF abx lets Lyme persistors come back to play, but LLMD thinks my returning sx sound more like Bart. I've hit Bart hard before with Levaquin and had to stop after 19 days due to flox; and then tried Cipro long term with good results.

3. Healing 98... 8 years IS a long time. I haven't run across many who have lasted this long. I commute and work 12 hours a day... leave at 6am and get back home 6pm. I start the morning with my liquid herbal cocktail at 5:15 am and take my pills at work at 6:45am. Mid-day I take my Magnesium and a round of probiotics, so it is hard to squeeze in another dose of liquid herbals. When I get home at 6pm I do both liquid herbal cocktail and pills before dinner. Then another round of magnesium and probiotics around 9 before bedtime. It was even more of a challenge when I was on IV for 16 month.

4. Healing 98 and Girlie... To compensate for the two rounds of tinctures a day I have double my dosage. For Hout I take 3 dropper fulls per dose, and JK Plus I take 2 dropper fulls twice a day. I guess a full dropper is about 30 drops or between 1/4 and 1/2 a teaspoon. I don't really know if the herbals really do much for me, but continue anyway. I also use to take CSA blend but have stopped for past two years... the costs of good quality herbals does add up pretty fast. Taking the blends help, but not sure about percentages of each item and if it effects dosing.

... such a complicated game we play. I'll post updates.

Post Edited (tickbite666) : 7/11/2018 5:53:37 AM (GMT-6)


sierraDon
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2016
Total Posts : 222
   Posted 7/11/2018 7:53 AM (GMT -6)   
Good luck, i hope the daily continual treatment forces a reaction so you know you are going in the right direction, maybe that is what is needed at this time. I have been having good luck so far with rifabutin, into my fourth month with it.

acarined
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 212
   Posted 7/11/2018 10:06 AM (GMT -6)   
Have you taken sida acuta? I find it is the most effective herb against bart when combined with houttuynia.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33273
   Posted 7/11/2018 10:45 AM (GMT -6)   
acarined said...
Have you taken sida acuta? I find it is the most effective herb against bart when combined with houttuynia.


He takes CSA which has Sida acuta
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Healing98
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts : 1300
   Posted 7/11/2018 9:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Tickbite, I too get up at 5:00AM, leave at 6:00AM and commute 45 miles to work. I don't get home until 6:30PM-7:00PM, depending on traffic.

I have breakfast and take my abx, vitamins and herbs at 7:30AM, probiotics at 12:00PM, Probiotics again when I get home and before dinner and then herbs, abx, and some more supplements again at 9:00PM when I go to bed. I plan to add another dose of herbs at 3:00-4:00PM.

Herbs have a very short half-life (hours?) thus the reason why 3 or 4 times is even better. I learned of this recently so I now plan to slowly add more times into my schedule.

Good luck in hitting Bart hard. It has made my life miserable.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33273
   Posted 7/11/2018 9:38 PM (GMT -6)   
Healing98 said...
Hi Tickbite, I too get up at 5:00AM, leave at 6:00AM and commute 45 miles to work. I don't get home until 6:30PM-7:00PM, depending on traffic.

I have breakfast and take my abx, vitamins and herbs at 7:30AM, probiotics at 12:00PM, Probiotics again when I get home and before dinner and then herbs, abx, and some more supplements again at 9:00PM when I go to bed. I plan to add another dose of herbs at 3:00-4:00PM.

Herbs have a very short half-life (hours?) thus the reason why 3 or 4 times is even better. I learned of this recently so I now plan to slowly add more times into my schedule.

Good luck in hitting Bart hard. It has made my life miserable.


Yes, I believe it’s not just about total amount taken - but how often.
One of Buhners recommended herbalists said 4 x per day if you can - is better to keep a steady state in your system
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

tickbite666
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 1625
   Posted 7/12/2018 8:01 AM (GMT -6)   
I know I should take herbs more often. 50% of the time I'm on the road between 9 and 2pm doing site surveys, customer visits, permits, etc. Maybe I can try a small 2 oz dropper bottle and premix a small batch each morning when I take first dose to take around 10:30 am and push off Mag and Probiotics to 2pm ish.

I just don't know how effective the herbs are for me.

Thanks for the input.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33273
   Posted 7/12/2018 11:13 AM (GMT -6)   
tickbite666 said...
I know I should take herbs more often. 50% of the time I'm on the road between 9 and 2pm doing site surveys, customer visits, permits, etc. Maybe I can try a small 2 oz dropper bottle and premix a small batch each morning when I take first dose to take around 10:30 am and push off Mag and Probiotics to 2pm ish.

I just don't know how effective the herbs are for me.

Thanks for the input.


When I was doing Buhners Herbs with the abx - it was difficult - can’t imagine how I’d manage if I was working .
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi
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