I hear ya on the co-infections, i did mention that in one of my posts. I agree a lot of people cant get better because of that.
dcd2103... One question, have you tried at least dapsone? Or any of the other mycobacterium drugs that treat persister cells based on Dr. H's work?
Remind you some of the persister cell drugs like dapsone and disulfiram not only work great due to their long half life, bioavailability, and crossing the blood brain barrier, but they also target multiple coinfections at once.
I think if you tried dapsone, it may change your mind on your disease being irreversible.
And remind you, dapsone also treats some autoimmune disorders as well. If you're worried about
hypersensitivity syndrome (DHS), take it low and slow, or even pulse. I started off on 25mg a day and it did wonders. My sciatica slowly went away that I thought would never go away, along with my spinal pain, and brain fog which is weird, lol, I never realized I had it that bad. I got the same experience what Dr. H's wife exactly described, as if a cloud was lifted off of my head when I took dapsone and I can think clearer, talk longer sentences, etc... While my brain would be in and out for the next couple of years, now I'd say I can think a lot clearer almost permanently. Of course I still have brain farts here and there, but these persister cell drugs I tried changed my health for the better permanently.
I do think you underappreciate how many people cant get better by treathing the spirochetes, who stay persistently sick.
I don't know man, lol, if you've read my other posts, you'd know I'm the type that thinks the cure and remission word gets thrown around a lot in the community. And I'm always the first one to question whether lyme patients are in remission or if they're still on some sort of antimicrobrial maintenance protocol, whether it's herbs or antibiotics. I think chronic lyme is very hard to cure for those that have the 3 B's! If a lyme patient has been off all antimicrobrials for at least a year, I'd say you're in remission. I think there's patients that go off of drugs 99% of the time for a 1-6 months range and always end up relapsing.
A lot of people develop b-cell type autoimmunity. Its proven. I did. That doesnt reverse. Once your body starts making antibodies, it doesnt stop until you can reset the immune system and clean out the antibodies with IVIG or Rituximab. Then you have the autoinflammatory T-cell side, which is what i think is responsible for a lot of the symptoms like limb pain and fatigue. That paper i referenced tied chronic lyme to a part of the immune system which is responsible for both autoinflammatory and b cell mechanisms.
Do you believe everything that's written in the medical books? Remind you, that there may be influence from the pharmaceutical industry. And as pharmaceutical rep Gwen Olsen puts it, big pharma isn't in the business of curing you, but disease management and symptoms maintenance," there's more money to be made.
I agree, there's many diseases and disorders that are irreversible. I was diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis, a genetic autoimmune condition I inherited from my father side. Celiac Disease is irreversible autoimmune disease and just recently we found out that a simple reovirus can trigger that, but once it happens, it's irreversible. I suspect glyphosate may be a trigger too, which as we're starting to find out, can act as an antibiotic against your natural microbiome. Hint, hint... Imbalanced microbiome = Autoimmune https://gmofreeusa.org/research/glyphosate/glyphosate-overview/
Glyphosate based herbicides may act as an antibiotic, harming beneficial animal gut bacteria (Ackermann 2014, Shehata 2013, Schrödl 2014).
But what if some of these autoimmune diseases were actually irreversible, for example Hashimotos and there was possibly an underlying infection that can't be picked up on bloodwork such as Bartonella. As some of the modern day LLMDs like Dr. Hirsch are starting to recognize after he treated his patients with a-bart, their thyroid antibodies for hashimotos went down and their thyroid levels went back to normal. https://youtu.be/tgjjtdapfdi?t=912
And just like this article hints to, Bartonella is everywhere, like Dr. Hirsch said bacteria is kind of like a common flue that everyone has and sort of lies dormant, then when it wakes up from a stressful even such as car crash or antbiotic like Cipro, it wakes up and starts wreaking havoc on the brain and causes all sorts of neurological issues. https://www.northcarolinahealthnews.org/2013/12/05/bartonella-is-everywhere-so-why-dont-we-know-more-about-it/
As Ed Breitschwerdt puts it, he thought we would of reached the tipping point by now, but so far the medical community pretty much turns a blind eye to this disease and would rather treat the symptoms, rather than the source, unless it gets really really bad and it's obvious by symptoms such as the stretch marks what they're actually dealing with
The point I'm making is, that some patients with a still a strong immune system and haven't contracted borrelia, may be still showing mild signs of bartonella through a thyroid disorder such as hashimotos or graves disease and not even knowing there's an underlying infection. Again, as Ed Breitschwerdt puts it, he’s convinced that Bartonella is the stealth cause of many neurological, inflammatory and chronic diseases in humans.
My dr ran a test called the cunningham panel on me. The test was developed cuz kids with strep were developing PANDAS/neuropsyche issues (like in lyme).
Yep, I was getting all that pots and pans crap when my bartonella flared up, and after I starting treating bartonella, all these symptoms got better.
My dr says all his lyme patients test positive. It looks for antibodies against the brain, to prove its caused by a pathogen. I had 4 out of 5. Thats autoimmune. He uses that as a way to detect chronic lyme which cant otherwise be detected. Horowitz mentions this in his book too, antiganglioside autoantibodies. He says to test for them. Theyre in the cunningham panel. I have them. I have b cell auto immunity, and 4 bands on the west blot, and was bitten by ticks maybe 10 times in my early 20s, didnt get sick until my early 30s when i was working too much and eating like sh** and my immune system weakened, and now i have a generic b cell autoimmune disease theres no name for, i'm showing high ESR sed rate for high inflammation, i got limb pain and fatigue and neuropsyche issues and gut problems, and circulation issues and sleep problems, and I got two drs telling me it was caused by lyme, its autoimmune and that this is the case in most of the chronic lyme cases he sees.
It sucks having all these problems it truly does, but for me, I ketp digging, never stopped, kept following the top LLMD's research such as Dr. H's work. Watched all the lyme documentaries, including the biowarfare ones like Under the Eightball and told myself I wouldn't quit, until I at least figure out whether or not I can cure this disease myself.
First year dealing with this disease, throwing 3-4 different antibiotics at it, I honestly thought it may be autoimmune to, until I tried flagyl that many lyme patients claimed help them get out of their wheel chairs. After taking that drug, I knew that this chronic disease didn't pertain to just being autoimmune. Within a week I felt a progress that I never made in a year of taking any of those standard antibiotics, common sense tells me that a short response period like that does happen with typical autoimmune diseases and disorders.
The bottom line is that i said "Chronic lyme is just autoimmune". I made a blanket statement, which isnt fair. As you mentioned, there are co infections and persisters, these are also parts of chronic lyme. But at the end of the day, i think more than half are for autoimmune reasons, and that quote below at 60% aligns w/ that idea.
Totally cool man, everyone has a right to have an opinion. Hopefully this creates a really great discussion and others learn from it, drives others to do more investigating about
autoimmune disease and persister cells themselves, come to their own conclusions.
We all make mistakes, I very could be wrong about
a lot of stuff, just like the CDC and IDSA ; ) We're all human, sadly some of us like the IDSA and CDC think once they make a decision on a disease they think it's set in stone and they can't go back on their word, because they'd be responsible for probably of millions of people suffering and hundreds of thousands of deaths, really no one knows the actual figures with the amount of suicides involved. Just remember science is changing on a day to day basis, new studies coming out, even new drugs like disulfiram, Curza's C-Z-199, and another bartonella drug that set to come out.
You never know, what if one of these drugs ends up helping some of the patients that have been diagnosed with permanent autoimmune diseases, just like what happened with Kris Kristofferson. And what you know, Dr. MacDonald was onto a connection between these brain wasting diseases and spirocheteshttps://youtu.be/44xl0z8i5x8
Believe me, there's days in my past where I've felt I've hit a brick wall with antibiotics, sadly a lot of of lower level LLMDs aren't willing to give out some of these drugs Dr. H and Dr. J are working with in New York and DC. But there's a reason why they have a reputation of being the best doctors! Not every doctor is created equally, we live in an unfair world.
All three LLMDs in Michigan reference Dr. B, but none of them follow his protocols to a T. As a member TF put on LymeNet.org, chronic lyme is very hard to cure, he started recommended lyme patients on that forum go to the top LLMDs and don't even bother going to the lower level tier lyme literate doctors. Then the moderators when after him for that saying he was giving off misleading information, then stopped commenting. The doctor that put his chronic lyme in remission is G Savely, which I heard follows Dr. B's protocol to a T and treats very aggressively. She also treats morgellons as well I heard.
Sadly, not everyone can afford these top LLMDs price, even Dr. S in DC isn't cheap.
World isn't a fair place my friend, that's why I took it upon myself to treat myself to get over that plateau, now that I have and dealing with bartonella, I decided to go back to a LLMD in Michigan to treat my bartonella and watch my labwork. Once you get over that hump it seems, herxing becomes a lot more common and I think treatment becomes a lot more easier... Well I shouldn't say easier, the progress becomes faster and a lot more evident.
I suspect babesia was the reason for my own plateau, I'm sure autoimmunity may have played a role too, but I think once you reach a certain stage and your health/body finally starts to respond, you start to realize how this is just an underlying multi-infection. As the top LLMDs say, look at this as peeling layers on an onion back.
I really do think that certain coinfections like babesia duncani will not be knocked back unless you use drugs like dapsone, daraprim or coartem. Like Dr. Rawls put it, drugs like mepron have been overused in livestock and babesia has become very resistant to the drug, as proof of the yale study.
A few other members on lymenet.org theorized that certain strains of Babesia may have something similar to Malaria such as hypnozoites that settle in the liver, basically dormant persister cells. If you don't kill them off they keep repopulating. There's only two drugs on the market that treat these dormant persister cells, primaquine and Tafenoquine.
And what's interesting is, there's more universities proposing Tafenoquine as a revolutinoary new treament for babesia.
"Tafenoquine as a potential revolutionary treatment for babesiosis"http://grantome.com/grant/nih/r21-ai142523-01
Oxford Academic https://academic.oup.com/jid/article-abstract/220/3/442/5490825?redirectedfrom=fulltext
What's funny is Oxford Academic is actually backed by the IDSA, you can see their logo above... So if Babesia is so easy to cure, why would a persister cell drug like Tafenoquine be needed for Babesia?
Nothing really has added up what the IDSA has been saying about
these coinfections or borrelia from the get go.
Anyways, if they do start treating with Tafenoquine, I hope they figure out how to go in lower dosages, because when I took primaquine, what happened next I could of never predicted with the herxes that put me in the hospital, similar to the reports of disulfiram. I think I went back to the hospital 4x over a two day period. Herxes can F%#CK YOU UP ROYALLY!
Thank goodness it seems disulfiram seems to be treating babesia and something like a quinine drug doesn't seem to be needed, which can cause harm to the brain stem.
Post Edited (Charlie55) : 12/12/2019 11:14:11 PM (GMT-7)