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Thoughts on US healthcare moving forward?

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TuffyR
Regular Member
Joined : Jul 2020
Posts : 83
Posted 11/9/2020 6:07 PM (GMT -7)

Girlie said...
If we can provide free health care here in Canada - I don’t see why you can’t get it in the U.S?

You missed the /sarc/ in your post

The only thing free to everyone is birth and death. Everything else has a cost.
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Girlie
Forum Moderator
Joined : May 2014
Posts : 44175
Posted 11/9/2020 6:09 PM (GMT -7)
I do get to choose the specialists I want to see. My reg doc refers me.
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skinny_joe
Regular Member
Joined : Mar 2019
Posts : 399
Posted 11/9/2020 8:23 PM (GMT -7)

Girlie said...
br />300k? How can anyone afford that?

Insurance. If you don't have insurance you more then likely go bankrupt. Medical bankruptcy is pretty common.
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1000Daisies
Veteran Member
Joined : Apr 2016
Posts : 3147
Posted 11/9/2020 8:54 PM (GMT -7)
Then why do some Canadians cross the border for health care to the US? I know some Europeans who have to pay out of pocket (for private) because their "free" medical is inadequate. Obviously, there are issues with any system.

People with chronic illness are definitely victims of a failed medical and failed insurance systems. sad

I'll be losing my health insurance sometime in the upcoming future. I haven't looked into options yet.
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astroman
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2014
Posts : 7509
Posted 11/9/2020 9:00 PM (GMT -7)

Girlie said...
If we can provide free health care here in Canada - I don’t see why you can’t get it in the U.S?

Economics. Nothing in demand ever drops in price. Its one big vicious circle.

No individuals or health care companies want to make less money. If it is government subsidized- then you pay with more taxes. When companies say "your all taking a wage cut"....the people slowly leave to avoid said wage cut.

So many young people are for "free this and free that" because they have not fully experienced living as a taxed adult. They dont realize free stuff will still cost them. And the adults who want free stuff have never earned enough to pay for it in the first place. How they expect this "free stuff" to be covered?

America, from the start was and still is based on having the "freedom" to gain personal income with less taxes (which used to be hard work), and is why it was fled to and founded.

Since Canada started as part of the United Kingdom, it was set in its ways from the get-go. Even after its independence 1982, it's still part of the British Commonwealth, and not much has changed.

In America:
1) The poverty and lower class never had much, so not much to tax either.

2) What used to be middle class, is now lower middle class and they cant take an income cut (which is what a tax increase is) since they already have basic homes and cars. Stepping down from "basic living" is to live in your vehicle, and that is happening now.

3) Current middle class is bearing the brunt of taxation and they're getting tired of it. Many "live the life", but with minimal savings.

4) Much of the upper-class keeps climbing into rich-class, its a matter on time.

5) The rich-class have voting power and interest to keep their money. Many pay less in tax per income ratio than middle class. Money is addictive to many people. They could live on less, but other than a select few, most wont do that. Thus threaten to leave the US if taxed more, taking industry with them.

I know a boomer millionaire (not that rich really) who never went to college. Ive discussed increasing the tax ratio with upper class. Her answer: she earned her income and deserves her lifestyle more than average people. Reality: no, she was just lucky, did not work all that very hard and would not be given those opportunities today.

Its all about demand...and....greed. Companies used to be satisfied with a certain ratio of profit to worker income. Now its more about profit, since board of directors and investors steer companies that used to have one owner, and sometimes that one owner wasn't very greedy....at all.

"Non-profit" in America sounds great too, but doesn't really exist. CEO's of non profits are still sometimes millionaires. The money just gets to them, on paper, from a different path.

If there was more land left up for grabs on this planet, people would flock to it again starting America 2.0.

Post Edited (astroman) : 11/9/2020 9:48:11 PM (GMT-7)

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skinny_joe
Regular Member
Joined : Mar 2019
Posts : 399
Posted 11/10/2020 7:19 AM (GMT -7)

1000Daisies said...
Then why do some Canadians cross the border for health care to the US? I know some Europeans who have to pay out of pocket (for private) because their "free" medical is inadequate. Obviously, there are issues with any system.



I think their simply is just more doctors in the US because of population differences. If you need to see a specialist you sometimes need to travel. Of course a lot of doctors I think have left Canada to come to the US to have better pay. So that is not the only reason. I was referred to a oncologist in Boston which happened to be only 2 hours for me. The other alternative was Iowa. Sometimes you have to travel for care.
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dcd2103
Veteran Member
Joined : Nov 2019
Posts : 1184
Posted 11/10/2020 7:48 AM (GMT -7)

Girlie said...
]If the free health care was so great, why did you pay to go to a doctor in Washington DC?

-----
Because I wanted to be treated by one of the best llmd’s in the world.
My Dr here isn’t knowledgeable about chronic Lyme.
I did treat here first with a LLND but he could only take me so far.

Unfortunately that is the problem with "free healthcare". It doesnt breed the "best drs in the world". There is zero incentive to become an innovative lyme literate dr when the government only pays for you to administer main stream treatments under very specific rules.
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skinny_joe
Regular Member
Joined : Mar 2019
Posts : 399
Posted 11/10/2020 8:54 AM (GMT -7)

dcd2103 said...


Unfortunately that is the problem with "free healthcare". It doesnt breed the "best drs in the world". There is zero incentive to become an innovative lyme literate dr when the government only pays for you to administer main stream treatments under very specific rules.

Unfortunately the opposite comes true though here. You throw up a fancy webpage and stake your ground and call yourself an "expert" then dont take insurance and charge $1000 a visit. Theres only a handful of doctors who know much about Lyme most LLMDs are following the herd following someone elses lead. That is why so many folks end up self treating.
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dcd2103
Veteran Member
Joined : Nov 2019
Posts : 1184
Posted 11/10/2020 9:03 AM (GMT -7)

skinny_joe said...


Unfortunately the opposite comes true though here. You throw up a fancy webpage and stake your ground and call yourself an "expert" then dont take insurance and charge $1000 a visit. Theres only a handful of doctors who know much about Lyme most LLMDs are following the herd following someone elses lead. That is why so many folks end up self treating.

That's because western medicine's understanding of chronic illness is in its infancy. But there are many more innovators here than elsewhere.
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astroman
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2014
Posts : 7509
Posted 11/10/2020 9:38 AM (GMT -7)
"Theres only a handful of doctors who know much about Lyme most LLMDs are following the herd following someone elses lead"

Exactly. Nothing really new in lyme treatment in the last 10 years, other than this newly used "D" drug (Disf...whatever)..

At least you can get ABX (if you want) from Functional MD LLMD's, visit wont be covered but Rx will.

I talked /interviewed a $600 per hour LLMD, in closing I mentioned you do nothing different than the $300 the LLMD's.

That llmd closed up shop.
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1000Daisies
Veteran Member
Joined : Apr 2016
Posts : 3147
Posted 11/10/2020 10:48 AM (GMT -7)

astroman said...

At least you can get ABX (if you want) from Functional MD LLMD's, visit wont be covered but Rx will.

Well that certainly is true in some cases, but that generalization is not accurate in my experience.

My functional MD (LLMD) doctor visits were either fully covered or partially covered by insurance actually. Some pharmaceutical medicines were covered, whereas others were not.

Insurance is really variable in my experience...
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astroman
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2014
Posts : 7509
Posted 11/10/2020 11:17 AM (GMT -7)
Clinic coverage and Rx coverage, even though with the same insurance are two diff departments - they quite often do not communicate. Thus, why Rx coverage can be a possibility.

On that note, my clinic visits were never covered, even though there is a vague mandatory state law for lyme coverage. The insc. co gave me the middle finger and did not care about the state law. You have to bring them to court and they know that. Someone did and got $60K though.

Post Edited (astroman) : 11/10/2020 2:54:20 PM (GMT-7)

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Girlie
Forum Moderator
Joined : May 2014
Posts : 44175
Posted 11/10/2020 11:31 AM (GMT -7)

1000Daisies said...
Then why do some Canadians cross the border for health care to the US? I know some Europeans who have to pay out of pocket (for private) because their "free" medical is inadequate. Obviously, there are issues with any system.

They cross the border and pay out of pocket so they don’t have to wait for the surgery.
For some procedures - it can take many months - knee and hip replacements are two examples.

Personally - I don’t recall anyone I know who has done that.
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Girlie
Forum Moderator
Joined : May 2014
Posts : 44175
Posted 11/10/2020 11:36 AM (GMT -7)

dcd2103 said...

Girlie said...
]If the free health care was so great, why did you pay to go to a doctor in Washington DC?

-----
Because I wanted to be treated by one of the best llmd’s in the world.
My Dr here isn’t knowledgeable about chronic Lyme.
I did treat here first with a LLND but he could only take me so far.

Unfortunately that is the problem with "free healthcare". It doesnt breed the "best drs in the world". There is zero incentive to become an innovative lyme literate dr when the government only pays for you to administer main stream treatments under very specific rules.


////////////////////////////////////////////

I think it’s also due to Lyme disease not even being recognized here... at least here on the West coast ... I know there are struggles there too -but it seems to be more acknowledged/accepted there now.
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