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WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member
Joined : Aug 2017
Posts : 5674
Posted 11/23/2020 10:26 AM (GMT -7)
Okay, we all know bartonella causes foot pain. I also found that mold/yeast/gut pathogens cause foot pain. Foot (nerve) pain is also very common with diabetes.

I have had all kinds of foot pain and have attributed different kinds to different things.

Right now, I am having foot pain (and numbness and ankle pain). I get it pretty much all the time. Feet feel sore and unsteady like I’m walking on rocks when I get up or stand after sitting. I hobble a little ways and then I’m usually alright. In the bed at night, my feet often feel weird - numb, heavy, buzzy, burning.

The real point of my post, however, is related to the effects of walking for exercise. I can now walk much farther than I could 6 months ago and even on inclines. Problem is I often overdo it, and my feet feel heavy, numb, and sore afterwards.

My question:

1. Is this related to nerves or to blood vessels?

2. Am I causing worse damage by walking?

I was looking at my feet and ankles the other day and noticed lots of visible purple blood vessels on the sides of my feet below and up to the ankle.

Any suggestions?
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saraeli
Forum Moderator
Joined : Jan 2019
Posts : 2349
Posted 11/23/2020 10:58 AM (GMT -7)
I have nothing revolutionary for you here, just mainly a question. Do you have any pain, numbness, or other issues in your lower spine or tailbone area? I ask because this sounds like what my mother experiences as a result of nerve compression and inflammation in her lower spine. My partner also has these issues, to a lesser degree, ever since a broken tailbone a few years back. For both of them, stress, exertion, poor diet, and inflammation exacerbate the symptoms. My partner finds lots of relief from craniosacral therapy, and some from Penetrex and CBD balm applied to the lower spine and tailbone area. Just an idea!
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WalkingbyFaith
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Joined : Aug 2017
Posts : 5674
Posted 11/23/2020 11:45 AM (GMT -7)
I just came across my notes from last telephone appointment with my doctor. She suggested chanca piedra for my feet. I have never taken that. I know it’s for kidney stones. Anyone know why it would help my feet?

Chanca piedra seems to affect bleeding and blood sugar. My Lyme doc has told me before that I am hypoglycemic. Not sure if it’s safe.
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WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member
Joined : Aug 2017
Posts : 5674
Posted 11/23/2020 11:46 AM (GMT -7)
Sara,
I sometimes get back pain, but I have been to a chiropractor recently. No structural damage that I’m aware of.
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dcd2103
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Joined : Nov 2019
Posts : 1184
Posted 11/23/2020 12:06 PM (GMT -7)
I'm confused, didnt we just establish in the other post that it's neuropathy? Sometimes i feel like i talk on this site and its just ignored.
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WalkingbyFaith
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Joined : Aug 2017
Posts : 5674
Posted 11/23/2020 12:11 PM (GMT -7)
dcd,

Everything’s not neuropathy. Bartonella is known to affect the entire vascular system. Sometimes it’s hard to differentiate between nerve, vascular, muscle, tissue, bone, etc. That’s one reason I am asking about it.

Will walking irreparably damage my blood vessels if the issue is vascular?

Will it irreparably damage nerves if the issue is nerve related?
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dcd2103
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Joined : Nov 2019
Posts : 1184
Posted 11/23/2020 12:22 PM (GMT -7)
I had the exact same pain you’re talking about. I couldn’t figure out why my feet were “sore” (which makes you think muscle or connective tissue) in addition to burning and buzzing, when all I supposedly had was neuropathy. It’s due to two different reasons. First is you said it yourself, they’re numb, and if they’re numb it means the nerves are damaged. This causes pain, and sometimes that pain can be dull, even though you wouldn’t expect that. Second, the worse the neuropathy, often times the worse your foot posture. You are probably walking awkwardly on your feet, which throws everything off. I used slippers for 1.5y. I began to walk on the outsides of my feet, as I didn’t like the fat pads touching the floor. I would pull my toes up and curl them so they didn’t hit the floor, which caused tremendous soreness throughout my foot. It wasn’t until I ditched the orthotics and slippers that I realized I literally was screwing up my gait, and that’s why I was getting all this soreness. I too assumed it must be bartonella or something, yet now that I learned what it really was and fixed it, the soreness is gone.

The best thing you can do is to ditch the orthotics and exercise your feet. Walking is good, it’s not going to damage them. Run your feet over a tennis ball. Massage them. Buy a reflexology mat and walk on it. You want yiur nerves stimulated so they keep growing and your brain learns how to deal with the pain signals. Of course this works better once the immune system is calmed downed, and can be a double edged sword, because if the trigger is still there and the attack is still on going, it will continue to hurt and anger then more.

Post Edited (dcd2103) : 11/23/2020 12:29:14 PM (GMT-7)

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WalkingbyFaith
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Posts : 5674
Posted 11/23/2020 12:42 PM (GMT -7)
Thnx. I can get something to massage feet with. I went to a different chiropractor about a year ago who did some kind of imaging of my feet. Turns out my feet are very flat. I have fallen arches. The good news was both feet were pretty symmetrical, so evenly affected. The recommendation was custom orthotic insoles. Too expensive.
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WalkingbyFaith
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Joined : Aug 2017
Posts : 5674
Posted 11/23/2020 12:51 PM (GMT -7)
I also get a lot of tightness in the tendons around the heel and ankle. What you said about foot posture was interesting. I have always carried a lot of subconscious tension in my feet/ankles and hands/wrists even in my sleep. I tend to bend my wrists and ankles in my sleep, which causes numbness and tension in the muscle/tendon.

When I was younger (and even older), my mom used to chide me for standing “pigeon-toed.” When standing, I would turn my feet inward with my toes curled under and one foot overlapping the other. To me, it was comfortable and natural.

I used to curl my toes under inside my shoes, too. My big toes would often leave a dent in the insole.

You said: “I too assumed it must be bartonella or something, yet now that I learned what it really was and fixed it, the soreness is gone.”

So, what did you decide it really was, and how did you fix it?
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dcd2103
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Joined : Nov 2019
Posts : 1184
Posted 11/23/2020 1:05 PM (GMT -7)

WalkingbyFaith said...
I also get a lot of tightness in the tendons around the heel and ankle. What you said about foot posture was interesting. I have always carried a lot of subconscious tension in my feet/ankles and hands/wrists even in my sleep. I tend to bend my wrists and ankles in my sleep, which causes numbness and tension in the muscle/tendon.

When I was younger (and even older), my mom used to chide me for standing “pigeon-toed.” When standing, I would turn my feet inward with my toes curled under and one foot overlapping the other. To me, it was comfortable and natural.

I used to curl my toes under inside my shoes, too. My big toes would often leave a dent in the insole.

You said: “I too assumed it must be bartonella or something, yet now that I learned what it really was and fixed it, the soreness is gone.”

So, what did you decide it really was, and how did you fix it?

Basically I’ve been on this ketogenic diet for about 2m. It worked quickly, and I had the buzzing and burning under control within 3 weeks. For the first time in 2 years, I could feel my feet without them buzzing or burning.

And what I felt wasn’t good...I realized how numb and painful they were. Large patches of numbess, some stinging, dull pains, soreness. I wanted to cry, because here I was finally getting my immune system in line, only to discover I had a whole new enemy to battle...permanent nerve damage! Why didn’t I do this diet 2y ago instead of listening to my drs who told me IVIG would cure everything! I really beat myself up.

But here’s what I did. I realized I had to start stimulating my feet. So I started to massage them w a lacross ball and bought the reflexology mat.

But the biggest change was throwing away my slippers that I had come to rely on, and walking barefoot as much as possible. I knew I needed to relearn how to walk on the ground with no support. I literally had forgotten how to do this. The inside of my foot, the fat pad where my big toe connects to my foot...I no longer knew how to walk on that. I was pulling it up off the floor subconsciously, as that part was very damaged and numb. Starting to walk barefoot and fix this created a spasm in my lower back and my calves. But after 2m of just walking on my feet again with no support and using the reflexology mat, ive learned how to walk properly again and my feet are no longer sore.

I also noticed that my left foot was starting bow out. That is getting better too. And the numbness and neuropathy pain is going away too. I’m ecstatic that’s happening so quickly.

I dunno how much of this is relevant to you, maybe you dont use orthotics or slippers or walk like you’re protecting a certain part of your feet, but my guess is you are. Find those immune triggers and right them, and then start walking barefoot around your home and stimulating your feet as we discussed.

If that doesn’t work I’ve come across a novel way to regrow the nerves, cutting edge stuff, too much to explain in this post and you need to get the immune system right before even trying it, but we can revisit later

Post Edited (dcd2103) : 11/23/2020 1:23:59 PM (GMT-7)

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potsnpans
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2019
Posts : 799
Posted 11/23/2020 1:33 PM (GMT -7)
"The recommendation was custom orthotic insoles. Too expensive."

Instead of orthotics, the best thing might be sorta the opposite, which would involve gradually transitioning to a "minimalist" shoe and walking barefoot more often as dcd said. This way you gradually strengthen all of the tiny muscles in your feet so that you don't need the extra support. I know this is getting away from your original post a little, but maybe it helps with blood circulation as well. I say be thankful that the orthotics were too expensive! If your neck hurt you wouldn't want to wear a neck brace for the rest of your life, right?

If interested check out this podcast episode:

https://peterattiamd.com/irenedavis/

I think Irene Davis is the one who made the neck brace comparison

Post Edited (potsnpans) : 11/23/2020 1:40:13 PM (GMT-7)

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astroman
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2014
Posts : 7509
Posted 11/23/2020 2:10 PM (GMT -7)
There are almost endless reasons for foot soreness or pain, not always bart.

Foot pain alone is one thing, total body pain or tingling is another, but can be both.

Ive had bad pain, then it went away, then came back usually from some simple little ankle twist. In addition to ticks, ive also physically injured my feet, legs, pelvis , spine and neck - thats what extreme sports can do.

Feet are at the end of nerves.So ive also experience pinched nerves higher than the feet from my injuries, which will affect the feet. Just like 50% of carple tunnel is from shoulder or neck pinched nerves, but you feel it in your hands..

Even one leg longer than the other can create pinched nerves, as you pelvis will be tilted and twisted a little, and your spinal column.

The stiff Dr orthodics are not so great, there are some off the self that have support but a little more flexable. The ones that are 100% cushion, are simply a band aid.

Aggressive foot massage, wrap your wrists so you dont overuse them doing this, to get them moving again. Walking on a flat surface is not what we are made for. Walk in sand or a mowed lawn barefoot and you feet will start to improve because every footstep is different. there is something called nerve glides to - nerve shieth exersices.

Healing nerves faster than normal would be great. Would like to see the progression with this this new thing DCD is onto..

There are no suppliments that seem to work, I tried them all in the past. For me it was time. A long time.
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WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member
Joined : Aug 2017
Posts : 5674
Posted 11/23/2020 3:03 PM (GMT -7)
“ If your neck hurt you wouldn't want to wear a neck brace for the rest of your life, right?”

- Ha, ha! Good analogy.

I have tiny muscles in my feet?
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potsnpans
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2019
Posts : 799
Posted 11/23/2020 3:21 PM (GMT -7)
"I have tiny muscles in my feet?"

..lots of em

..teeny tiny wink
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astroman
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2014
Posts : 7509
Posted 11/23/2020 3:25 PM (GMT -7)
But you would need the neck brace for a while.

Orthodics or not - also depends on if someone had physical injuries that never healed properly.

Feet are complicated. The muscles that actually do most of the support for your ankle and foot movement are the calf muscles and they are obviously pretty lengthy.

Example: The instep/arch is held up by a tendon that originates below the kneecap, not in the foot. It comes down the front of the ankle, crosses to the inside top of the foot, then to the top inside of the arch. A tight laced shoe will bother this tendon and you might feel it in the arch.

The plantar facia is also influenced by the Achilles tendon - its connected. The list goes on.

Dont assume the pain you feel originates at the sore area - goes for the whole body, muscles, tendons and nerves can all be like that.
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