Sleep issues - what works best for you ?

so my journey is ongoing

generally, my Lyme and Bart symptoms have been improving now for around 18mths - but very slowly.

my treatment is basically a comprehensive protocol of Buhner Lyme herbs based on his healing Lyme 2nd edition book with a lot of additions for specifics like neuroinflammation, immune support etc.
also, i am gradually increasing a combination of co-infection herb tinctures - including CSA, Houttuynia, Teasel, Berberis,

added to this - and just as important in my view are
-diet modifications - ketogenic paleo whole food diet - 3 meals a day in a 10hrs window
-exercise - walking 4miles a day - plus strength training
-stress reduction
-sleep

together these things have definitely done more for my progress than 12 months of antibiotics combinations - and i am really encouraged with the progress so far - especially in the last 2 months where I have added LDN to my regime

for sleep, i'm doing everything i can to get 8hrs a night - but rarely succeeding.
i have noticed that every time I do get near 8hrs for a couple of nights in a row - I feel so much better and my health and functionality take another little step forward - so all the signs are that better sleep would really help me move forward.

i have a pretty good sleep hygiene routine :

-regular bedtime of 10-15pm each night
-cold room,
-warm duvet
-no screen for 1hrs before bed - and all screen are on nightime mode ( low blue light mode) after dark
-some form of excercise every day
-try to get natural sunlight for at least 45mins in the first half of the day

i have tried dozens of supplements and herbs with very little seeming to have any beneficial effect.
the two i am sticking with at the moment are
1mg of melatonin 1hrs before bed - seem to get a slight benefit from this - though possibly a slightly hungover feeling in the morning too
L-theanine - 250mg 1hrs before bed - again seems calming and easier to go off

mainly i go off OK - but wake early and have trouble going back off to sleep again when i do
my mind is not racing or worrying or anything - my body simply feels awake and too uncomfortable to sleep

i do not really want to take prescription sleep meds if i can help it - as i worry about the issues of dependence and messing with my already messed up system.

i know early awakening is v common with Lyme
so what else have people here found benefit from


many thanks for your input in advance!

Essential oils help me with sleep. I find that a few drops of frankincense, peppermint, and lavender on a handkerchief by my pillow really help me fall and stay asleep. It's not the most powerful solution, but it's another idea for you.

Are you sensitive to electricity at all, or wifi? Some people turn off their wifi routers at night, keep their phones in another room (or at least four feet from the bed), or even power down the whole house at night, depending on their levels of sensitivity.

Any chance you are ingesting something stimulating close to bedtime - cacao nibs, coffee, chocolate, an adaptogen that affects you in a stimulating way, B vitamins? A lot of adaptogens that chill other people out amp me up, but it sounds like you have been using your herbal regimen for a while and would have noticed that effect by now. Just thought I'd mention it in case anything is new.

I'm also trying to figure out a sleep disruption pattern right now. A few days ago, I had eight tiny cacao nibs in a smoothie for breakfast, and that night I slept very little. That's how sensitive I am to caffeine these days! Ever since, my sleep pattern is off because of that night. Time to break out my essential oils, I guess.

Not sleeping well can be so frustrating!

Not many things have been helpful for my sleep either Garzie and many are stimulating for me. I tend to get a solid patch of sleep for the first part of the night and then the second part is lighter also.

You could experiment with what you eat at bedtime. I can’t remember if you’re keto but some people do better with some carbs at bedtime. Sometimes a little honey and oil can be good. Some do best with finishing eating as early as 3 or 4 pm. You could play around with that.

Ornathine was a supplement that worked for me at one time (suggesting ammonia issues? Who knows!) and Glycine is supposed to improve quality of sleep - I’m not sure it helped but I used to take collagen at bedtime.

Could you divide your melatonin dose and take it half at bedtime and half if you wake in the night?

I found melatonin made me groggy too - b12 (methylcobalamin) works better for me. I need a large dose which points to other issues (glutamate possibly) but it’s been very good for me and I don’t feel groggy with it.

Hope you find something that helps. I’m getting what feels like reasonable sleep now after years and what a difference it makes!

Magnesium Glycinate helps me the most. If for some reason tgat doesn't work then I take some valerian root.

Wow! - thanks everyone for all the varied and interesting ideas - for a while, i had been thinking I had more or less exhausted all the things to try but I can see there plenty more to go at now.

been a bit busy with non - Lyme related things - ( a good thing )

but will come back and reply to some of these posts individually where I have something to add or discuss further

thank you all again for your excellent support!

saraeli said...
Essential oils help me with sleep. I find that a few drops of frankincense, peppermint, and lavender on a handkerchief by my pillow really help me fall and stay asleep. It's not the most powerful solution, but it's another idea for you.

Not sleeping well can be so frustrating!

thanks Sara
yes you are not wrong there!

actually, i forgot to mention that I use a few drops of organic lavender essential oil on a napkin next to my pillow each night and do think this helps me a little - its certainly relaxing.

i do like coffee - but i try to keep consumption to a minimum ( v small shots ) and not past lunchtime

i am taking a large number of buhner herbs - but i have been taking them for a good while now and as far as i can tell none of the immune-modulating ones seem to hype me up or make me wired or anything.

same for the adaptogens - but not sure if they could have a kind of long term effect that is detrimental to sleep - i know eleuthero has a warning to not take for more than 30 days - according to teh UK MHRA - but thier grounding in herbs seems to be a bit on the ultra conservative side - phytophobia as buhner calls it

the antimicrobial ones certainly seem to cause some kind of herx like reaction at first - and thsi can effect sleep after a step in dose - but this seems to settle down after a few days and i am careful to only increase doses v slowly - so this avoids most issues.

b vits - again do not notice much or anything with them but take them first thing in the am anyway

thanks for all your thoughts

I haven’t read all the posts ... but what helped me was Valerian root.

It helped me get to sleep and I’d get a few hours.

Deep_sleep said...

Garzie said...

mainly i go off OK - but wake early and have trouble going back off to sleep again when i do
my mind is not racing or worrying or anything - my body simply feels awake and too uncomfortable to sleep

I know that wakenings during certain times during the night can be related to a liver that is full of toxins etc. When do you wake up? I used to go to bed about 11 pm and wake up around 3 am a lot before. My mind was racing, so I got up and read some and took more melatonin.
How is your detox?

thanks again -
typically 2-3pm on the worst nights - 5am on the not so bad ones and sometimes sleep through till 7

mainly i find if i get up - even to go for a pee - thats it i'm done - v hard to get back off again -
may try another mg of melatonin the next time i wake to see if that helps - but generally, i just try to rest if i can't sleep

liver issues - possible - i have pain/discomfort in that area and that is often a bit stronger when i wake in the early hours - but my liver function tests came back pretty good last week - nothing outside the range - maybe one enzyme a little high - but still inside the normal range. recently i have been trying to figure out what this pain maybe
-liver pain - caused by infection = Bart/lyme ?
-some kind of localized SIBO or dysbiosis type pain ( but been eating a strict Keto whole food diet for 2years now ) - but sometimes i feel a bubbling sensation - sometimes hear it - then the pain/pressure seems to subside 50% ...?
-gall bladder pain ( but recent ultrasound show gall bladder entirely normal and no stones )
- i wondered if it might just be a symptom from all teh herbs increasing bile output and kindof inflating my gall bladder a bit too much between meals - but i am grasping for explanations

my detoxing seems OK - i think
i work up a decent sweat every day doing my fast walking routine for 45misn to 1hrs
-i drink aroudn 2litres of water a day
-i take detox support supplements in the form of
-ALA sulfur donor/glutathione booster
-MSM sulfur donor/glutathione booster
-NAC sulfur donor/glutathione booster
-Milk thistle extract
-turmeric
-lots of buhner herbs/knotweed, Dan Shen, Cats claw etc - all meant to be hepatoprotective
-thinking about adding red root - but think it made me herx last time
-i take hot long Epsom Salt baths every few days also

ref liver pain - i have bought some TUDCA to try based on the reports here -

thanks again for the input

"I had the same with falling asleep easily and then waking up to pee and couldn’t fall asleep."

This is also a common problem for me.. though it's not so bad at the moment. Like almost everything else it changes for weeks/months at a time and I don't know why.

I heard someone talk about a lack of electrolytes causing the morning cortisol spike to come too soon. For this reason, I may try some extra salt with my last meal.. or perhaps drinking some sal***er towards the end of the night. This should theoretically help the body retain water as well, hopefully reducing the need to pee in the middle of the night...

Edit: err.. salt-water

Post Edited (potsnpans) : 1/29/2021 8:05:12 AM (GMT-7)

Interesting with the electrolytes. I'm very thirsty before bed and always drink a lot of water before I go to bed and when I go to the bathroom. I do take electrolytes but only once or twice a week.

I tried a couple RX sleep drugs when lyme was raging, they didnt even work very well.

If I was stressed and mind was racing, I sometimes used Holy basil at bedtime. Always used valerian and mag glycinate 400mg.

Benadryl works too and also if you have sinus drainage - that does affect the crebs cycle though and if are already low in acetylcholine this will have an even more increased affect and you might need choline in the AM.

Some peoples nicotine and caffeine coupled addiction is literally playing tug of war with acetylcholine. And many use both at the same time,..... way to confuse their body!

One capsule. I rarely use it anymore and dont remember the size. Lavender and passion flower are similar.

Benadryl was really the key for me. It scares some, but I don't have the common alzhiemers genes, and I have higher than average choline tested by two labs, and dont smoke.

I really like Valerian. It’s a herb in tincture form. Good luck