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Doctor Says Stomach Acid Levels Normal But Reflux Symptoms

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Posted 2/13/2021 9:38 PM (GMT -7)

Alxander said...
Hi Astroman,
I’ve been trying to use pillows not only to elevate my head but also my upper body.
That isn’t as good as putting the bed to an angle?

Well, even if one is successful angling their body at the hips in bed vs at their gut with pillows, it still increases abdomen and diaphragm pressure which is something you dont want with gerd. I did sleep in a recliner for a while but that was much steeper.

I used 2x4 and 2x6 wood studs chopped to 6-8" long layed flat. If your alone or your beds heavy- slide one under a leg, then the other side and repeat till about 6-8" higher on that end.. This way only adding 2" at a time is easier (modern 2x4's are actually only 1.375" thick).

Still to this day as a preventive, I like my bed jacked up 3" on the head end and dont use a thick pillow. Ive even traveled with a couple small wood blocks in my bags.
Posted 2/14/2021 9:50 AM (GMT -7)

running wild said...
Tu Wang - I also get dry mouth, especially while sleeping. I think it may be from reflux that comes up at night. I cannot elevate my pillow much as mentioned by astroman because of disc problem in neck. And I also had trouble with coconut oil. I'm wondering if it stirs up bacteria? The depression or anxiety really gets bad. I had a month until last week where it was better with gut and no migraines. Not sure why, but gut started feeling worse, migraines came back, along with depression.

Hi Running wild,
Thank you for sharing too. I got better since I started this GERD situation in 2015. I may have silent GERD for since I had chemo radiation years ago. I was able to wean myself from PPI. Tapered down to Pepcid then Tums. I was eating good again. But early 2020 this it was Anxiety caused by heartburns and a cough that won't go away. Taking NSAIDS and big pills did not help at all. Since then on and off this horrible feeling keeps creeping on me. I had hypo thyroid and I did the diet eliminating dairy, starchy foods and veggies. Gluten free diet and less sugar. Now on SCD diet. Then few weeks ago I become Hyperthyroid. So my meds got lowered to 25mcg. But this dry mouth is so bad and it wakes me up at night. I think, salivary gland has a big part on our digestive system too. So I always hydrate with a sip of apple juice before i eat and after a little Yakult. Not much it's just to help my salivate.

I have a reclining bed that helps me on the GERD but Dry Mouth just get worst within this month. My doctor told me to check with my dentist. My dentist just give the the Biotene dry mouth rinse. But this seems to give my heartburns. I changed my toothpaste but this does not help at all. Xylitol candy is recommended but this is not good for the sensitive throat or on the SCD diet.

Too much things to consider. Food if not sensitivities, not good for Thyroid. The SCD diet I have been for 5 weeks and it gives me little hope but good enough for me. I will go to this for few more weeks and see what it does.

I will update you. All the best. God is good He will completely heal us.

Posted 2/14/2021 1:23 PM (GMT -7)
Tu Wang - Have you tried D- limonene, Jarrow brand, because it’s amazing for most people that use it . sounds like you’ve tried everything. It’s 10 bucks a bottle if it doesn’t work no big deal no big loss. It has a high success ratio and is simple to use, not a band-aid and actually heals.

Upon first ingesting you might actually reflux a little bit of it but that is the citrus oil which coats your esophagus so it’s no big deal, that’s actually what makes the LES valve heal. Take later on in the evening just before bed when you’re not moving around much.
Posted 2/14/2021 3:51 PM (GMT -7)
Runningwild,

Stress can cause reflux as stress produces acid in the gut (I once had 7 ulcers at the same time due to stress). Try taking yoga classes (lots of men do yoga) and see if that makes a difference. I really believe you would benefit from learning how to lower your stress levels.

Hope you feel better,
Denise
Posted 2/15/2021 1:46 AM (GMT -7)
I have had some GERD problems now and then and what helped for me was to elevate the front of the bed with books (astromans version with wood is better to make it even), not lie down after eating and diet changes. Olive oil, citrus fruits, and carbonated water have been the biggest for me. I still eat/drink them when I don’t have a problem, but less than before.
Posted 2/15/2021 7:04 AM (GMT -7)

astroman said...
Tu Wang - Have you tried D- limonene, Jarrow brand, because it’s amazing for most people that use it . sounds like you’ve tried everything. It’s 10 bucks a bottle if it doesn’t work no big deal no big loss. It has a high success ratio and is simple to use, not a band-aid and actually heals.

Upon first ingesting you might actually reflux a little bit of it but that is the citrus oil which coats your esophagus so it’s no big deal, that’s actually what makes the LES valve heal. Take later on in the evening just before bed when you’re not moving around much.

Hi Astroman,

I did try D-Limonene yesterday towards the afternoon. I was kind'a scared as this gives me a title bit pain on my stomach. Like air/blotted. It took a while, but after I pass gas (excuse me : ) felt a bit better. I took Jarrow formula brand (disclaimer: my choice not endorsing any product). It's bigger capsule and probably that too, scared me. It's been a while that I cannot take big caps. Since I really get anxious on new things i took it around 12 noon. I rested and took a nap. 3pm feel the gas pain on my side area. I pass that. I burp like lemony taste. That's my fist day experience. How long normally to take this based on your experience? Any food you were trying to avoid while taking this. Like rice, carbs, gluten or meat?

Thank you.
Posted 2/15/2021 8:48 AM (GMT -7)
Tu wang:

I 1000mg per night got better in several days,after two about weeks then took every other 1000mg night and tapered off D-L in a couple months.

At the time (years ago), I was still on the "low acid/ gerd" diet the Drs had me on. No tomatoes, coffee, chocolate ect. I was eating very bland food and only roasted chicken for meat, I could no longer digest red meat properly. Ive never had issues with rice. Pasta was an issue though.

Ive since changed my diet to a low cytokine diet tested with my blood and gluten free which is a different subject.

Post Edited (astroman) : 2/15/2021 8:51:45 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 2/15/2021 10:46 AM (GMT -7)

astroman said...
Tu wang:

I 1000mg per night got better in several days,after two about weeks then took every other 1000mg night and tapered off D-L in a couple months.

At the time (years ago), I was still on the "low acid/ gerd" diet the Drs had me on. No tomatoes, coffee, chocolate ect. I was eating very bland food and only roasted chicken for meat, I could no longer digest red meat properly. Ive never had issues with rice. Pasta was an issue though.

Ive since changed my diet to a low cytokine diet tested with my blood and gluten free which is a different subject.

Hi Astroman,

Fist of all thank you for staying in this forum and helping out. I was on the GERD site but I trace most of the people I was talking before were gone and I found most of you on this site.
I tested to be on a low acid due to antibiotic and PPI. I wean from PPI and was ok but just suddenly with eating too much due to Covid Lockdown it got me the sensitive stomach. Stress of not being to be outside or travel. Taking Thyroid meds.
I am doing the SCD diet for five weeks now, tough on me because I really love rice. But for the sake of heartburns I changed to Cauliflower rice, but cannot have too much cauliflower due to thyroid situation. I said goodbye to all gluten foods a year ago. That had helped me. Don't have bread nor pasta for a long time. It's a sacrifice but just to feel better it is ok not to eat those for now. Glad to have a meal without heartburns. I been tested few times, EKG, Cat scan, blood test, H-pylori. Praise all is normal. But I still don't fell good.
I hope this D-limonene will work for me. I took the 500mg first and that seems to be sufficient for me. I get anxiety because of heartburns and now dry mouth. Now I don't know what water to drink as this becoming tough on me. I have regular water and alkaline. This giving me heartburns. Weird stuff keeps puffing.

Thank you.
Posted 2/15/2021 11:37 AM (GMT -7)
"Weird stuff keeps puffing." Great way to put it.

Never know what is coming next or what could "set off" something new or return of old. The primary question I has still not been answered - Do I have too much or too little stomach acid? The best guess would be not enough stomach acid, based on astroman's and so many others on this site experiences.

Just got back from ENT, who did a scope to check nose and throat. She said there is sign of inflammation in my throat and what she descried as a white are on part of throat. Not tongue, however, but I do scrape my tongue each day. She has suggested prescribing Nystatin liquid to swish around in mouth. Not exactly sure why as I was just trying to absorb all she was saying and should have asked. Nystatin in pill form has been a nightmare for me in past. Not sure if just swishing would cause same herx-type reaction.

Tu Wang - Do you think it was the stress you mention that set off new problem?
Deejavu - My daughter is putting together a yoga program for me after reading your post. Good idea and thanks. Hoping your symptoms improve more and more.

Deep Sleep - Olive oil kicked up GERD for you? If I read that correctly, that would be interesting to know about as I do drink olive oil.
Posted 2/15/2021 12:38 PM (GMT -7)
Yes I used to have a big spoon of olive oil multiple times a day before. None now.
https://www.palmyrasurgical.com/diet-reflux/olive-oil-and-gerd
Posted 2/15/2021 2:07 PM (GMT -7)
Deep Sleep - That was an interesting read. Great information for anyone taking olive oil but especially with Lyme and stomach problems. SO how did you figure out olive oil might be causing problems?
Posted 2/15/2021 2:38 PM (GMT -7)
I got a light burning feeling in my throat and more GERD problems, so it was quite easy to figure it out. It started with that I only could have a more expensive and milder olive oil, but after a while, I couldn’t have that one either.
Posted 2/16/2021 8:59 AM (GMT -7)
Hi Deepsleep,
Wow Olive Oil could be another culprit. So the extra Virgin might not be as bad. Hopefuls. I have a new olive oil since last week and let me check on that, for now will have to switch to grapeseed oil. Hope that will help.

Yes Runningwild, Yes, my question is, when I can eat normal food again :>(
I think I need to do test for high or low acid again. The test I am doing is this:

You can test to see if your stomach acid is too high or too low.

1. First thing one morning, on an empty stomach, before eating, drinking, brushing teeth
2. Add 1/8 tsp bicarbonate of soda to 100mls slightly warm water
3. Drink the mixture (it may taste slightly salty)
4. Time for a burp!!!
5. Don’t expect a big belch, it’s gonna feel like little air bubbles coming up from your stomach. You are causing a reaction with the alkalinity of the bicarb with the acidity in your stomach.

 Optimal burp time 1-2mins
 If you burp before 1 mins your stomach acid is too high and we need to calm digestive fire
 If you burp between 2-3mins you have slightly low levels of stomach acid
 If you burp between 3-5 mins your stomach acid is low
 Anything after 5 mins and you have super low or no stomach acid
 There is specific nutritional support depending on your results

This is based on my research and experience. All the best.
Posted 2/16/2021 9:12 AM (GMT -7)
Tu Wang - Do you think it was the stress you mention that set off new problem?

Hi Runningwild,
Yes Stress could be too. This Covid situation is not helping at all. I am from California and for the past months we become the highest area. No ICU beds available. I can't even see my doctor unless I get tested first. Praise God, it had calmed down now and hope this will continue. But the stress and uncertainties could be too. I pray daily and God is good making me go through all these.
I am doing breathing exercises for my Anxiety. This had helped but I should do better. I use the Wim Hof breathing exercise. One time I did cold bath. It made me feel good but too much to do during this winter time.

All the best. Thank you for sharing your experience.

I also read Deejavu's site. Thank you
Posted 2/16/2021 2:10 PM (GMT -7)
Until Lyme Disease, which has been many years, I did not really believe stress could cause such problems. I always handled situations, or even if stress kicked up, it didn't last long. Now? Any little thing is no longer a little thing. It gets blown up in my mind. That just adds to the stress, which adds to the symptoms, which adds to the stress,,,,,,,,,,, The cycle runs and runs until I get a positive test result or good answer.

Also, I've done the burp test many times and rarely even burp. But I've read the test is not real reliable, though someone else may have a better answer. Multiple times without a burp must tell a story.

It must be tough living in California and being so limited in anything you could do. In Georgia here, there are really no limitations, but people wear masks and keep a good distance from each other. The kids I coach in high school are getting better at separating , at my insistence. It is to keep them from getting sick or being quarantined.

Do the breathing exercises help much? Hoping they do for you.

Post Edited (running wild) : 2/16/2021 2:29:36 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 2/16/2021 3:22 PM (GMT -7)
Histamine intolerance can be a possible cause if your acid levels are normal.
Posted 2/18/2021 9:58 AM (GMT -7)
Fronton - Seems I did a histamine test, which was normal, if I remember correctly. The burp test (multiple) with baking soda produces no burps, so my guess is it's low stomach acid. Doctors approach that as if it would be hard to determine, but I've read there are probe tests that could figure it out.

Has anyone gone through same experience?
Posted 2/18/2021 12:17 PM (GMT -7)
Myself:
normal on the histamine test.

No burps from baking soda water.

I tolerate betatine HCL

had some alternative medicine test that suggested low acid.

didnt do the chipped test pill test.

acid reducing ppi's and the other class made my stomach feel "missing" lol, like dead a hole that would digest even worse.
.

Post Edited (astroman) : 2/18/2021 1:22:48 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 2/19/2021 5:37 PM (GMT -7)
Runningwild,
Tough time sometimes. I am trying the breathing. That helped.
Few months ago we had that California Wild fire and it was tough being outdoors but we made it thru. Did my breathing indoors and brought live plants inside my house. Breathing is good for anxiety.

Did the SCD diet for 6 weeks. It seems to be tough on me but did it. Now, I am doing the Low FODMAP diet. This one is way better for me as I love rice. Small portion and eating every 3 hrs. Praise God no heartburns and not losing weight so far.

We will get better. God is good.
Posted 2/19/2021 9:57 PM (GMT -7)
Your symptoms seem similar to mine just last year. Turns out I had low stomach acid. It was verified through a heidelberg test. I also did an endoscopy and it only showed mild gastritis. I was also diagnosed with SIBO. I believe it was from the antibiotics I took a few months prior and also bad eating habits. Low stomach acid is actually a common cause of acid reflux. I suggest you take that test.
Posted 2/19/2021 10:46 PM (GMT -7)
Lifesux,

Based on your Heidelberg test results, what was your prescribed treatment? And, did you follow it, test again, and confirm your stomach acid returned to normal?

Similar to you, my Heidelberg test purported to show low stomach acid. It was suggested I take an HCl with Pepsin supplement with meals and increase the dose by one capsule every other day until I begin to feel a warm sensation in my stomach. Then, once I do, reduce the dose by one capsule and remain at this dose until the warm sensation returns. Then, again, reduce the dose by one capsule and keep repeating the process until I'm no longer need any capsules.

In my case, I got up to four or five capsules per meal and never felt the warm sensation. I was concerned about taking more capsules or even remaining at that dose, for fear of causing damage to my stomach lining. Years later, I tried the experiment again and got to three or four capsules per meal -- even meals with low protein -- and never felt any warm sensation. By this time, I was working with a different doctor and he suggested I stop taking the HCL with Pepsin capsules, citing the same concern.

I've had acid reflux in the past (approximately 15 years ago) and took acid blockers for a short while. It was about a decade later that I read what often feels like too much stomach acid might actually be too little stomach acid. This is when I had the Heidelberg test. I've had suboptimal digestion and bowel function for years, but have never been able to figure out what to do. My nails grow fast, but they have ridges and are brittle. They tend to tear horizontally across the ends quite easily. I also continue to have fatigue and a major, unrelenting feature, as well as slow wound healing and a constellation of other, secondary issues.

Anyway, I'm just thinking aloud and perhaps you or someone else might have some thoughts or suggestions.

My apologies, running wild, for eating up a lot of space in your thread.

Thanks,
Dude
Posted 2/19/2021 10:47 PM (GMT -7)

Lifesux said...
Your symptoms seem similar to mine just last year. Turns out I had low stomach acid. It was verified through a heidelberg test. I also did an endoscopy and it only showed mild gastritis. I was also diagnosed with SIBO. I believe it was from the antibiotics I took a few months prior and also bad eating habits. Low stomach acid is actually a common cause of acid reflux. I suggest you take that test.

Hi Lifesux,

Yes, mine is low acid too due to antibiotics and taking NSAIDS, fist flair in 2015. I went to ER few times. Was taking PPI at first as prescribed by my doctors and just like what Astroman said, the Stomach felt like "missing" when taking PPI. I wean myself from PPI, tums and other meds. Got better for years, But suddenly last year it seems my digestive system got sensitive again. That's because I was taking NSAIDS, big pills for cough and other meds. Also, during the Covid lockdown I eat all kinds of carbs, chocolates and sweets. Then anxiety attack then digestive system got so complex. Even water was tough to swallow.

Gastro test was very mild gastritis. Cat scan was ok. But I kept losing weight and feeling horrible and anxiety. My doctor prescribe again another set of PPI. Even after telling her that I cannot take those. Then she said, so that's why you did not get better because you are not taking your meds. Opps. Wrong... #can't get good help these days.

So after reading all the insights of this forum, I did the SCD diet with my friend. She was ok with SCD diet. I did it for 6 weeks only. It was tough for me. Now I am doing the LOW FODMAP diet which is better for me. Praise God no heartburns and not losing weight.

I have requested my doctor to have the Histamine test.
Posted 2/20/2021 8:04 AM (GMT -7)

The Dude Abides said...
Lifesux,

Based on your Heidelberg test results, what was your prescribed treatment? And, did you follow it, test again, and confirm your stomach acid returned to normal?
Dude

Hey Dude,

My treatment was to use digestive enzymes and hcl with every meal. I started with 2 hcl pills for a couple months and then just 1 for every meal. I also chew my food for at least 30 times and no liquid during or after meals for 30 minutes. I never retook the test. I just felt better.
Posted 2/20/2021 6:16 PM (GMT -7)
FYI - They actually discuss this topic in The Gut-Brain summit (Episode 5). I'm sorry to say that I didn't listen to that part well enough to restate their main points, as that is not a symptom my family deals with.

Just thought I'd mention this since I find this summit informative.
Posted 2/22/2021 3:15 AM (GMT -7)

running wild said...
.
Deejavu - My daughter is putting together a yoga program for me after reading your post. Good idea and thanks. Hoping your symptoms improve more and more.

Running wild, so happy that your daughter is putting together a yoga program for you. I used to go to yoga classes and I was shocked how relaxed I felt afterward. I once had a professional massage and I felt so relaxed that I was on Cloud 9 so if you have access to massages I highly recommend those as well. I exercise at home but want to start getting professional massages due to the stresses of caregiving and go back to taking yoga classes (if they're open). I've been in lockdown before the virus started, lol!

My current symptoms are from getting older (hey, I'm 64) such as lower back pain (I'm taking a calcium supplement which helps a lot since I probably lost bone), I don't have the energy I had when I was in my 20's and 30's (that's why I'm interested in learning about adrenals) but I think that's normal, hey I take care of my 95 year old Mom 24/7.

I recently learned that I have cataracts (oh no!) but living in rural Vermont there is not a choice of cataract surgeons (there is only 1 doctor) so I will have to travel (I will probably go to New York City or Long Island). Not fun getting old! If anyone can recommend an excellent cataract surgeon I would appreciate it.

In any case I hope you feel better (let me know how the yoga goes),
Denise
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