Kissing and transmission

Actually, I'm even worried I could give her Lyme just by living with her.

LLMD MR wrote this about transmission ;

“The Lyme infection, borrelia, can be sexually transmitted. However we do not know the actual rate or chance of transmission. There is limited science around this topic, but here it is.

Studies do show borellia in vaginal fluid and male ejaculate of those who have positive testing with Lyme disease (1, 2).
In one recent study, 13 people with lyme were studied. Of the 13 studied 3 were sexual partners. All 13 had evidence of Lyme in the genital secretions. The sexual partners in each of these studies had identical strains of borrelia (Lyme) detected in the male ejaculate and vaginal fluid. However the researchers did not clarify the length between sexual activity of each couple and when the specimens were obtained. Nor is there scientific evidence indicating how long borrelia can persist in the vaginal fluid after male ejaculation. Thus it is possible the detection of identical strains in the female partner could be from male secretions in the vaginal fluid rather than her own vaginal secretions. In addition, it is possible each person in the couple were independently bitten by ticks which each carried the same strain. Furthermore this study only included 13 people. Small studies of this nature often do not reflect what happens in the general population.
Lyme is a spirochete like syphilis which is well know to be sexually transmitted.”

“ On a positive note, in my experience when I practiced in Seattle, most who get a Lyme infection through sexual transmission do not develop Lyme disease. I believe most people have immune systems that are able to rid the body of the Lyme infection or keep it under control.“

Bartonella in dog and cat saliva.

Vimzor, I don't think you'll get a clear cut answer on it. It's probably best to show her all the data that you have and ask her what she wants to do.

kiss her ! life is short ...i rinse with chlorine dioxide mouthwash after . and pop an alinia preemptivly when my sick gf wants to get romantic... look around with lyme goggles and you will see 90 % of humans are already infected imho.

i thought i gave it to all my friends smoking with them , then i look at they're lifestyles and realized its not my fault. i did not bioengineer this steath pathogen, i just live here...and if u get a chance to do some living ...take it !

eds is a connective tissue disease that i believe often has roots in congenital borrellia . dime to dollar if you look at her blood under a decent microscope you will see spirochetes already.

as a plus she is probably very flexible, kidding aside mothers use abx to try and not give lyme to their babies , she outta be ok whilst you are treating at full dose ....

it strikes me that we are discussing this as if the situation were - we are all uninfected - until we are exposed to some pathogen - and then we get infected - and then we get ill

this is the old model of acute infectious disease

more and more evidence is emerging that does not seem to fit well with this paradigm
eg
1, the study of the partners of lyme patients above having EXACTLY the same genetic strain of lyme in them ( could have been left over DNA of course - but may well indicate partner to partner transmission)

2, the sharply increasing prevalence rates of lyme in all developed countries worldwide - is this just from greater awareness - or is something else going on here

3, some of the more sensitive ( but admittedly less mainstream ) tests are showing around 50% of healthy controls have evidence of borrelia in them - eg Red Lab Phage based test ( i had until recently regarded this technology as a bit of a unsubstantiated outlier - but it seems the test was actually developed by published and per reviewed researchers in phages at the university of Leicester in teh UK - so its not just a " we are two guys in Belgium who have set up a lab with a new proprietary lyme test that we say is good" - type situation, as i had first thought).

4, think about how we humans evolved and lived up until the last few hundred years - typically dwelling in huts, caves etc alongside animals and their parasite vectors, a completely different level sanitary conditions - and therefore constantly exposed to tick and flea and louse bites - and their pathogenic bacteria - including lyme, bart, babs etc ( all of these species are much older than humans ) not everybody who got bit and "infected" by these organisms got ill - or we would probably not be around today to know anything about it

so what has changed - why are more of us getting ill with lyme et al in the last 2-3 decades

it may be that exposure ( ie getting bitten by something - or kissing someone - or having sex with someone ) is not in fact the main determinant of who becomes ill or not.
it could well be that exposure is commonplace and other factors determine who becomes ill
like immune system status / stress / trauma

i know i was living a very stressful life for the few years before getting ill - working ridiculous hours in big business as a kind of turnaround guy.

many many man made chemicals now in the environment are also being found in peoples blood, urine and tissues routinely - many of which are known to be disruptive to our immune systems or hormonal systems or both. microplastics are starting to come to the fore as another biologic dysrupter in ecosystems, animals, food chains and now humans.

modern life is just not conducive to healthy immune function - people are sleeping less, working more, and the line between work and home life is becoming more blurred in our always-on culture and as a result people are feeling more chronically stressed,
we are also exposed to bright lights at night, taking more prescription medications than ever before and eating a diet further and further away from our natural template than ever before ( note 60% obesity levels in USA and UK - which is also an inflammatory and immune system disturbing effect ).

so i ask you - do you think the average Joe today who is working too much, sleeping too little, living on pizza and natco's, permanently connected to social media, has several spare tires around their waist and gets out of breath going up 2 flights of stairs - is going to do as good a job of fighting off a stealth pathogen as a lean active hunter gatherer or smallholder farmer from a few hundred years ago living close to the earth.

i rather think this is the more likely picture of what is going on

that said i could not in all conscience, knowingly risk passing something as horrible as lyme et al on to anyone i loved on the basis that i did not invent it.

I'm all for living life - but i have just lived through 7 years of what happens to the person you love when they contract Lyme disease - and i would not wish that on anyone.

even apart from the moral aspect - it really would not do you any good at all in the long run to see someone you love suffer.

how to prevent it - that's a tough one - i really don't know if there is a way to be sure - perhaps there are ways to reduce the chances of transmission - eg continuous antibiotics - but we simply do not know enough to know by how much at this stage.

personally, i don't think i will be looking for more romantic involvement until i feel i have recovered - or the picture becomes clearer

if you are already in a relationship - and exposure has already happened - then the picture is more clear- more a case of just looking after yourselves to make sure the pathogens do not get a foothold -or at least do what you can.

That's also what happened with me. Got bitten when I was 10, didn't start becoming sick until I was 20. After a couple weeks of working night shift and a stressful period at home the house of cards called my immune system came crashing down.

Garzie said...
I'm all for living life - but i have just lived through 7 years of what happens to the person you love when they contract Lyme disease - and i would not wish that on anyone.

even apart from the moral aspect - it really would not do you any good at all in the long run to see someone you love suffer.

True but I also don't want to be lonely the rest of my life. Like I said before; this sucks.